English subs ?
 

I thought you all might find this site interesting
And I am wandering why no one as made or asked
For English subs after all you could start the war in Europe
And then go to the pacific as many English subs did in WW2

http://www.mikekemble.com/ww2/britsubs2.html

British subs you mean. (hehehehe) Yes 1 vote from me. :rock:

Some of us have already voiced our displeasure about the lack of Royal Navy subs in SH4 both publicly and privately. The Royal Navy made a vital contribution to the war in the Pacific albeit from 1943 onwards (before 1943 only 3 subs operated in the theatre) losing 3 subs in the process. Ideally for a mod to work we'd need the T & S class subs, the Trincomlee port in Sri Lanka made and possibly the supply ships HMS Maidstone and HMS Adamant. Of course if we had the 2 main classes of Royal Navy subs it would mean that the Dutch would also have subs ingame as they were leased S & T class subs. It's a lot of work though to create all this though.
Oddly enough, we kind of already have subs used by the Royal Navy ingame. The US Navy leased Britain 5 S class subs (S-1, S-21, S-22, S-24 & S-29), so maybe a "what if" mod can be made around the existing subs ingame?

Interesting Admiral Christie's diary quote in Australia (1944), about British submarines. From "Silent Victory" :


" (H.M.S.) Clyde, the dirtiest submarine that ever made a dive, now in port after several false starts. I hope this isn't a sample of what we are to experience with the Limeys"..."Clyde now must remove battery for repair. Looks as if she'd have to be generally refitted and then blasted out of port. H.M.S. Porpoise in today. She too arrives unready for her job"..."The submarines of the Royal Navy arriving here are in the most horrible condition. Looks as thought we'll have to rebuilt (them) before they are able to do any work in enemy areas-if they have that in mind."

Man, I would happily pay for a RN subs add-on with a Med and Atlantic campaign - it'll save me from having to try make one myself.

Me too. The Dutch subs as well.

That would be a cool paid add on. Add the RN, Dutch, and a couple IJN subs (maybe a Type B1, and a K6?). The campaign layers (even if they need a major overhaul, IMO) have traffic for all sides extant. You could drop in any country's subs, and set off.

With a patch to sort out the issues SH4 has and it already wowing people on the eye-candy front. A 'mission disk' or more correctly, an expansion would seem to be a no-brainer decision, and one can only hope that UBISOFT decision-makers realise this too.

All the parameters for radar, homing and targeting systems would seem to be readily available from SH3 and SH4, which should mean that apart from a few interface screens, some 3D modelling and a bit of voice acting, UBISOFT could bang something like that out in fairly short order. Japanese subs, British subs, Italian subs - it could be a real cash cow for them!

Cross your fingers people!

I'd be into Royal Navy subs too. From 1944 the British 8th Flotilla operated out of Fremantle under US command, so if we could get the submarine models it would be a simple matter to add these subs to the game. Unfortunately British subs (especially the T-class boats) have a distinctive look so we can't just borrow a US sub, although I guess if we were forced to we could use something as a British S-class boat.

If you look at flight sims upisoft have made
Addon after addon for IL-2 STURMOVIK
So why not for SH3 and SH4:-?:-?:-?:-?

It would be interesting to see the Royal Navy's opinion of Admiral Christie.

Yes British subs would be good, although I would prefer to see them in the Med.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_M_class_submarine :rotfl:

Well, Oleg Maddox seems obsessed with plane models - that's why IL-2 gets updates. I wish he was as interested in the AI or damage models because those areas are atrocious across the board with the IL-2 series: the AI escape routines have never worked, the damage models are hideously porked, with aircraft that act like they're made of some kind of highly combustible paper, and things like gunfire spray and airframe vibration aren't modelled at all, making gunfire way too effective. Then there's the AA, which is more deadly than a modern laser guided missile. To cap it all off, IL-2 is all hard-coded, so modders like me can't even fix the shabby state of affairs that exists in these games.

In short, I'd rather have SH3 and SH4 with a few patches that address real problems, than a game like IL-2 where numerous patches install planes I never cared about and which solve none of the sim's real problems at all.

Lol, CCIP and I have already talked about this sort of thing in passing. RN boats will be available eventually with a new campaign. I'm positive of that. whether it is a paid and official add-on or a mod I don't know...I've already mucked around with supply drop missions to Malta and so on (using US boats of course,) and harbour recon in the bay of Naples has, I have to say, an even stronger pull on me than doing the same thing in the Phillipines.

SH4 is far more versatile for doing the RN boats in than SH3 was. All we need is lots of German and Italian ships - to start with - plus, oh, everything else.:rotfl:

Anyone wanna make the models? I'll do the campaign! :up::D

Maybe someone could mod
HMS GRAPH for SH3
Its was U570 that was used from 1941 to
1944 by the British after its capture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Graph_%28P715%29

Have to agree with Beery on the IL-2 comments regarding real issues that need fixing with it (and are set up so they can't be by most users). It just goes to show that a game with some poor implementation can still be a huge success.

This means that a lack of user mods apart from a dearth of reskins, has probably not been the reason for the success of the IL-2 series. Mission disks and updated scenarios, including the most recent 'what if?' style, add on have contributed to that in some ways, although I think that their main contribution has been to keep IL-2 in the public eye. It's somewhat ironic in that the recent 'what-if?' mission disk sold well, when you consider the similar scenario which was the basis for Enigma Rising Tide turned a lot of virtual bubbleheads off, then again, ERT did mess up horribly with the online promises.

But the real difference is that a flight sim is probably better geared towards multiplayer than a sub sim. The IL-2 flight model is very good on the whole, and it's this which makes it such a good online experience; you really can defeat a worse online pilot when you are flying an inferior aircaft as long as you use better tactics (I've had people accuse me of hacking because I beat them in this manner, which is somewhat ironic for a game where much of it is impregnably hard-coded). Just as well, since the campaign and interface are largely lacklustre affairs, not helped by some very questionable AI, which makes the AI in SH look like a paragon of ultra-realism in comparison.

The SH series benefits from the fact that it is more mod-capable, but it's also probably the thing that makes the need for official add-ons less pressing in order to preserve its longevity. Nevertheless, I do suspect that official expansions would prove to be a moneyspinner, as long as they are well crafted. One would hope that rather a different scenario from the packaged SH3 add-ons we have seen which often cheekily plagiarise the free mods available will transpire.

I'm personally betting that we'll see driveable Japanese subs in an expansion.

Shabby in your opinion, the DM is one of the best out there, problem is some AI-only planes, and some of the others have not been updated I don't know what planes you've been flying but some are tough, as they should be and others are easier to knock down. Guess what, like in real life..and ya there are some glitches...even mod packages have glitches and mistakes.


Guns DO have dispersion, and with the latest patch there IS gun shake modelled ... very well I might add (what version do you have).



As for the AA we already talked about it once that to have a realistic number of guns would bring even the latest dual cores to a halt. Anyway if you do a google search for "BA Dart" he made some videos that show how to beat AA..it really isn't that uber...they can't track vertically AND horizontally as well as just one axis.


AI? Well given that AI in SH3 and 4 are so wonderful...:roll: really it is better than it used to be, it is worlds apart from the original and really is there any better? We all get used to AI if we play a lot...and of course it's not a issue if you play online ( the reason it's locked for mods). BTW some of the better static campaigns out there make up for the AI by clever mission design...and there are enough community ones out there not to get bored.



As for planes YOU never cared about, well this was the first sim that brought Eastern Front VVS planes into the sim...and that lets you play from Burma and Manchuria to Murmansk and Normandy with the corresponding plane sets. The fantasy planes everyone gripes about are a minority among the plane set. Ki-27s, Tempests, Wildcats, Yaks, Pe-2s, Me-262s and B-25s are not fantasy.

One last post from me on this issue, because I don't mean to take the thread off track.

To Joea,

My problem is mostly with the AI planes, not the player's. Every time I go out on patrol my AI buddies get their arses handed to them and I'm left with half my squadron missing. I can't train my squadron to be good because they don't last long enough for me to start remembering their names. Although the average WW2 German pilot's lifespan was measured in years I'm looking at a survival rate for my buddies which is measured in days - and mine isn't much better because all gun efficiency and bullet/shell damage data in the game are overmodelled by a factor of at least ten and there is no way for me to adjust it to suit my requirements.

If the bullet and damage models were not overpowered my average lifespan as a pilot should be similar to those of real pilots. It is not. I've yet to survive the entire war even with the tweaks that are available via IL-2 Manager.

Look, we can argue back and forth about whether IL-2 is a good sim or not, but the fact is, my opinion is backed up by research, whereas the IL-2 apologists' arguments are backed up by pure love of the game. One argument is rational, the other is emotional.

A simulation should simulate. IL-2 does not. It is an arcade game masquerading as a combat simulator. Some people may love the game, but that doesn't mean it's a good simulation.

Egan, I like the whole Med idea but 1 of the big problems would be modelling the interiors of the S & T Class. As far as I'm aware there are no S or T class subs left anywhere. The only solution I can see is to use 1 of the interiors already ingame, I think the US S class would be best.

Yeah, Interiors are likely to be a problem. In fact, I think that creating brand new playables will be breaking new ground altogether as I am not sure it has been done before.

But if new subs are going to be built then I think new interiors are possible as well. I'm sure there is material out there to allow at least a passible representation of the insides - We could always watch 'We dive at dawn' A few hundred times and pick up whateer we can. :D

Personally I would be willing to trade some of the detail of the interior just for the opportunity to play something like this.

The whole idea of a RN mod is problematic not because of anything being impossible to do but rather the amount of work involved. It would have to be very model based because even allowing for ships taken straight from Sh3 and converted there are so many other things that need to be in there. I would very much like some level of AI subs in there too.

In actual fact we are talking about a total conversion here rather than a mod.

Anyways, it's a long way off in the future - if ever - but it's something that I would love to try once all my current modding projects are finished.

Well if the player's planes are ok, that shows that it really is geared more for online play. Tell me what pilots flew the entire war??? Very few...even the German aces were probably in combat less than some virtual players. An arcade game it is not...unless you think CFS3 was a real sim. :know:

Tell me what SH3 or 4 AI is better how? All the tweaks have to do mostly with sensors and changing the crew ratings percentages...which you can do in IL2 as well.

What research are you talking about are you an aeronautical engineer? It's up to the players to create the proper environment. You have not provided any proof or testing that the weapons are overpowered to compare to your "so-called" research. Many users have tested things like gun dispersion to give feedback to the dev back in the day.

You want to see what real pilots think of the sim look here:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...3/m/3881098535

(Real pilots BTW, especially TX-EcoDragon)

This will sound rude, but since you did not provide any detailed research and after your comments on other SH mods like GWX (and let me note I used RuB before GWX came out) your statements have zero credibility with me, thank goodness there is some choice in modding right now.