Eh? Correct me if I'm wrong, but X-com doesn't have terrain deformation. :hmmm:

Again, you can level 99% of the map. Only the terrain doesn't deform and 1 or 2 types of items that apear on it.

You could freely destroy hills and such in the original X-Com games, in fact you could make huge holes in the ground with just laser rifles. Perhaps you misunderstood what I meant?


http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ykGxF2KsLSM/0.jpg

Nope, just never saw any of it. Seen some application of explosives in several of the titles but never terrain deformation. Couldn't find any mention of it anywhere either.

Think it's because of the way the cover system works. They probably couldn't find a way to make it work with terrain deformation, or the engine doesn't really support it. Can't really think of any Unreal games with terrain deformation.

It tends to be fairly expensive as well, in terms of performance, so the available resources on the aging toy boxes might be an issue.

Terrain deformation would be pretty pointless in XCOM, IMHO.

And that's because of how the fighting is: You either hit, you miss, or you hit an obstacle and hit/miss. Given how the dice rolls.

In X-COM, every shot was a projectile that kept going until it hit something.
Also, X-COM had free-aim for every weapon, so it just worked better in it.

Though, I have to say, that is one area where XCOM fails, again. Free aim and
taking advantage of destroyable environment has been in TBS games for a long time,
but was pretty much perfected in Silent Storm where you were able to destroy
tiny parts of walls (few bricks) and throw a grenade to the next room through
the hole, or you could plant explosives to the supporting corners of a building and
bring the whole damn thing down.

Which is basically why I probably won't be playing this too much... I want an X-Com remake, not a dumbed-down casual gamer version. But to each their own ;) .

Dumbed down casual gamer... yeah, thanks for that... :roll:

Anyway, what you want is Xenonauts.

And I am with you. I didn't like XCOM. Played it for 4-5 days or so and everyday
I got more and more pissed off, then I just uninstalled it.

XCOM is made for 2012 gamers, and put it how you want, that is "dumbed down".

There's so many things that just doesnt make any sense, like comple lack of inventory
management. Medic dies/gets wounded and you cant pick their medkit.. umm..
because the game doesnt allow that.

And there's the 1 Sky Ranger BS.

Take the name and all the make-up out and you have a very ****ty TBS game.

@Safe-Keeper: if you like the original, dont get XCOM:EU. I loved original X-COM 1&2 and now Xenonauts, but XCOM was just BAD. Get it when it's on sale
or something, but no full price. You get more with Xenonauts. :up:

Well, it is. And I am biased, not towards the original X-COM, but towards the TBS genre
in general. XCOM, JA, JA2, Silent Storm all were amazing games that brought someting to
the genre.

What does XCOM bring to the genre? Absolutely nothing. What it does is,
it's showing that casual TBS might be profitable. May I remind you that it was Halo
that started the casual online FPS genre and it's downfall. That is exactly what
XCOM is doing if others catch on that.

I am biased towards the originals and the whole TBS genre, but how 2K and Firaxis
went with X-COM is no better than how EA went with Command & Conquer.

I am still waiting for someone to say one good reason that XCOM is better than X-COM. :hmmm:

Er, playability? I've played with TUs; they're a pain in the ass. :-?


I don't see how you can call it a bad game. Not to your liking, sure, but the game, on its own, works just fine. It is what it is because that is what makes it work. Tacking on, for example, full inventory would require the entire game to be reworked around it.

How a game where a mission or even an entire game can go belly-up in a matter of minutes is simplified and dumbed down is beyond me. It's like saying Il-2 is simplified and dumbed down because it doesn't have the same level of complexity as DCS.

Maybe the genre is not for you then. AP/TU system has been there always and it has worked. Some say you could exploit
it in X-COM, but reaction shots from alien took care of that. So, the 2 move system
just limits you. Why can I move and shoot, but can't shoot and move?


I gave it 7-8 on it's own, 5-6 (IIRC) as XCOM game. And if they wanted to
make a true sequel, they could've picked another engine. 2K & Firaxis aren't
exactly tiny, poor, developers.

Artifically making it difficult isnt same as complex.
As mentioned many times: why can't I have a 2nd Sky Ranger? There's
no reason. :down:

Good analogy actually. IL-2 = XCOM, DCS = X-COM. :O:

Bollocks, and you know that. You know how I feel about something like Frozen Synapse. Imo getting rid of TUs is an improvement, that's all.

Having a 2nd Skyranger would completely bugger the balance of managing panic, which isn't particularly hard once you get those satellites up to begin with.

And that the analogy works for you proves my point; there's stuff like the "console Il-2" (the title eludes me) sitting below it on the complexity scale. Calling something with a fair level of complexity simplified doesn't make sense. Though I need to note those terms are reserved for the simplest games in my book; prolly depends on our definitions.


At any rate, I'll concede it probably wouldn't attract as much flak if it didn't have XCOM appended to it (which isn't the same as X-com; there's a reason for that).

Apologies.

Should just go ahead and disconnect my router when I'm having a drink. :dead:

Nah, no worries. Didn't take offence and didn't mean to offend. ;)

To clarify: I think Frozen Synapse actually spoiled me. It gives the same freedom as you get with TUS to mix actions as you see fit. My problem with TUs is that it requires so much mental gymnastics: move to a position, kneel, turn, take a shot, get up, turn, move to cover. How do you know exactly how that will turn out, where you end up?

In FS, you can run the turn as a simulation and see it play out exactly, barring unforeseen enemy actions. In Xcom, you can see how far you can move and how many actions team members have at a glance. For Xenonauts I almost have to take out pen and paper and do sums.


I'd really appreciate a system that gives you feedback as to what exactly you can do in a turn. Without that, TUs strike me as hindering playability.

For anyone that does NOT have this game - it is now ON SALE at gamersgate.com for the weekend. 60% off. Basically 20 bucks. Well worth it. Just do NOT get the DLC's.

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/...FB3104FEB8241/
Good times...

That'll keep you busy....:O:

HunterICX