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-   -   FX Update torpedo splash back! (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=204097)

gap 05-09-13 07:01 PM
Let's see if I can throw some light on the whole matter, as I see that there is a bit of confusion:

- Wth Fx update, TDW has defined new torpedo splash particles and materials, and has assigned them new effect to existing torpedoes through the splash property of their amun_torpedo controllers. Stock torpedo splash materials and particles, respectively located in materials.dat and particles.dat are unchanged by Fx Updates, but simply they are not used by the mod.

- Fifi has just switched back amun_torpedo to use the stock effect. His changes are compatible with Fx Updates exactly because TDW's mod don't remove the old settings: is simply "bypass" them.

- Dynamic Environment changes material.dat. Don't ask me what exactly :D. Anyway I am sure that torpedo splash materials used by the stock effect are not removed by DynEnv, so Fifi's tweaks are 100% compatible with both Fx Updates and DynEnv :yep:


@ Volodya

I have been looking into the results of all your tests. Thanks for going to all the trouble of doing them. Because we can draw a conclusion I need for some more information though:
  1. What is exactly the difference between the first, the second, and the third set of experiments? As I understand it, you have changed BitmapParticle's material. Is this correct? If so, can I assume that the following row means a blank material (a texture with a black alpha channel)?

    Quote:
    3. → BitmapParticles → Material → TDW_FXU_NONE
  2. How have you disabled the ObjectParticles? Have you set their opacity setting to 0, as I had suggested yesterday or what else?

  3. can you take a couple of screenshots with only the BitmapParticle active (all of the ObjectParticles disabled)?
:salute:

volodya61 05-10-13 05:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gap (Post 2054084)
- Wth Fx update, TDW has defined new torpedo splash particles and materials, and has assigned them new effect to existing torpedoes through the splash property of their amun_torpedo controllers. Stock torpedo splash materials and particles, respectively located in materials.dat and particles.dat are unchanged by Fx Updates, but simply they are not used by the mod.
I'm not sure that particles.dat of FXU has stock settings in torpexplosiongreate controller and wasn't changed by FXU.. :06: :hmmm:

Quote:
Originally Posted by gap (Post 2054084)
What is exactly the difference between the first, the second, and the third set of experiments? As I understand it, you have changed BitmapParticle's material. Is this correct? If so, can I assume that the following row means a blank material (a texture with a black alpha channel)?
Quote:
3. → BitmapParticles → Material → TDW_FXU_NONE
I'm sorry.. it was a mistake.. it had to look like this -
Quote:
3. → BitmapParticles → Material → NONE
Here you can see how I did it -

http://s19.postimg.org/g2mlqcw73/pierre_E.jpg . http://s19.postimg.org/m4u8gukn3/pierre_E2.jpg . http://s19.postimg.org/d79ijhs73/NONE.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by gap (Post 2054084)
How have you disabled the ObjectParticles? Have you set their opacity setting to 0, as I had suggested yesterday or what else?
No, I didn't set their Opacity to 0.. I disabled them this way -

http://s19.postimg.org/3qjpcv8cf/dis...particulas.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by gap (Post 2054084)
can you take a couple of screenshots with only the BitmapParticle active (all of the ObjectParticles disabled)?
Okay.. here they are -

1. → BitmapParticles → Material → TDW_FXU_PierreE
1.6 → ObjectParticles → Object → ALL Objects/Particulas were disabled (NONE)

http://s19.postimg.org/5ddibu9rz/1_6_1.jpg . http://s19.postimg.org/mrxqk46wv/1_6_2.jpg

2. → BitmapParticles → Material → TDW_FXU_PierreE2
2.6 → ObjectParticles → Object → ALL Objects/Particulas were disabled (NONE)

the same as 1.

3. → BitmapParticles → Material → NONE
3.6 → ObjectParticles → Object → ALL Objects/Particulas were disabled (NONE)

the same as 1.

gap 05-10-13 07:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by volodya61 (Post 2054221)
I'm not sure that particles.dat of FXU has stock settings in torpexplosiongreate controller and wasn't changed by FXU.. :06: :hmmm:
Honestly I didn't bother comparing Fx Update's particles.dat with the vanilla one. Anyway I don't see why TDW should have modified torpedo splash fx contained in particles.dat, since FXU got its own version of the effect, located in the custom files that you are currently experimenting with... :hmm2:

Quote:
Originally Posted by volodya61 (Post 2054221)
I'm sorry.. it was a mistake.. it had to look like this -
Here you can see how I did it -

...

No, I didn't set their Opacity to 0.. I disabled them this way -
Okay, I guess that setting their material/object to "none" is the same as setting opacity to 0, and your screenies seem to confirm it :up:


Quote:
Originally Posted by volodya61 (Post 2054221)
Okay.. here they are...
Okay, seems that bitmap particles have very little effect, and we shouldn't bother messing with their settings. This leaves us with the four object particles to work with. I am going now to see how their settings changed from stock to FXU version :up:

gap 05-10-13 10:31 AM
Okay, this is the list of changes between the two version of torp_great_explosion, i.e. particles.dat version (used by stock game and retrieved by Fifi) vs. TDW_FXU_Torp_Explosion_Particles:

Code:
                                                                particles.dat        TDW_FXU_Torp etc.
Property                                                        setting                settings       

LifeTime                                                        10                15

GlobalScaleFar/Distance                                                400                100
GlobalScaleFar/DensityScale                                        0.05                0.01


BitmapParticles/Entry#0/Life/Variation                                0                0.05

BitmapParticles/Entry#0/Creation/Variation                        0                0.05
BitmapParticles/Entry#0/Creation/Overlife/0/LifeTime - Scale        0 - 0                0 - 0.5
BitmapParticles/Entry#0/Creation/Overlife/1/LifeTime - Scale        0.1 - 0                0.025 - 1
BitmapParticles/Entry#0/Creation/Overlife/2/LifeTime - Scale        0.1001 - 1        0.05 - 0
BitmapParticles/Entry#0/Creation/Overlife/3/LifeTime - Scale        0.45 - 1        1 - 0
BitmapParticles/Entry#0/Creation/Overlife/4/LifeTime - Scale        0.45001 - 0        -
BitmapParticles/Entry#0/Creation/Overlife/5/LifeTime - Scale        1 - 0                -

BitmapParticles/Entry#0/Velocity/Velocity                        3                1
BitmapParticles/Entry#0/Velocity/Overlife/1/LifeTime - Scale        0.2 - 0                0.1875 - 0

BitmapParticles/Entry#0/Weight/Overlife/0/LifeTime - Scale        0 - 0                0 - 1
BitmapParticles/Entry#0/Weight/Overlife/1/LifeTime - Scale        0.2 - 0.7        0.125 - 1.5
BitmapParticles/Entry#0/Weight/Overlife/2/LifeTime - Scale        1 - 0.4                0.2 - 2
BitmapParticles/Entry#0/Weight/Overlife/3/LifeTime - Scale        -                0.5 - 3
BitmapParticles/Entry#0/Weight/Overlife/4/LifeTime - Scale        -                1 - 1

BitmapParticles/Entry#0/Opacity/Variation                        0                0.05


ObjectParticles/Entry#0/Life/Life                                10                30
Only chenged settings listed above.

Surprisingly, most of the changes concern the settings of the one BitmapParticle (TDW_FXU_PierreE). ObjectParticle settings (using TDW_FXU_Particula01 to 04) are almost identical.

Time to have a look into material settings now :salute:

gap 05-10-13 10:38 AM
PS: based on the settings I have seen so far, I can't figure out what makes torpedo splashes to open up as a fan yet :hmmm:

volodya61 05-10-13 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gap (Post 2054375)
PS: based on the settings I have seen so far, I can't figure out what makes torpedo splashes to open up as a fan yet :hmmm:
And TDW says nothing :shifty: :)

volodya61 05-10-13 11:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gap (Post 2054367)
Okay, this is the list of changes between the two version of torp_great_explosion, i.e. particles.dat version (used by stock game and retrieved by Fifi) vs. TDW_FXU_Torp_Explosion_Particles:
..
Only chenged settings listed above.
..
Surprisingly, most of the changes concern the settings of the one BitmapParticle (TDW_FXU_PierreE). ObjectParticle settings (using TDW_FXU_Particula01 to 04) are almost identical.
OK, I will try to duplicate stock settings in the TDW's files.. a lot changes to HEX-editor :-?..

gap 05-10-13 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by volodya61 (Post 2054391)
OK, I will try to duplicate stock settings in the TDW's files.. a lot changes to HEX-editor :-?..
:hmmm:

wait... if you duplicate ALL of the stock settings in TDW's files, we will end with stock storpedo splash effects... Is that really what we want? :03:

I think we should rather compare the two sets of settings, understand them, and create some new settings. I am already fairly familiar with most of the parameters of SH particles generators, and I think that with a bit of help by TDW himself, we will can achieve a better effect than the ones we have already available :up:

volodya61 05-10-13 11:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gap (Post 2054396)
:hmmm:

wait... if you duplicate ALL of the stock settings in TDW's files, we will end with stock storpedo splash effects... Is that really what we want? :03:

I think we should rather compare the two sets of settings, understand them, and create some new settings. I am already fairly familiar with most of the parameters of SH particles generators, and I think that with a bit of help by TDW himself, we will can achieve a better effect than the ones we have already available :up:
I just wanted to duplicate stock settings to see - the same effect will be in the TDW's files or not :hmmm:

EDIT: anyway, I can test gun or two in our Reworked Guns while waiting new good thoughts :up:

gap 05-10-13 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by volodya61 (Post 2054398)
I just wanted to duplicate stock settings to see - the same effect will be in the TDW's files or not :hmmm:

EDIT: anyway, I can test gun or two in our Reworked Guns while waiting new good thoughts :up:
:yeah:

volodya61 05-10-13 11:26 AM
Another question, are you sure that stock particles.dat settings were not changed when/while you opened it in Goblin?

gap 05-10-13 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by volodya61 (Post 2054406)
Another question, are you sure that stock particles.dat settings were not changed when/while you opened it in Goblin?
I opened the file in S3d :03:

volodya61 05-10-13 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gap (Post 2054419)
I opened the file in S3d :03:
:o
S3D?. but.. how??
Something wrong with my eyes.. or head.. or?
New secret version/files? :03:

http://s19.postimg.org/vd092rvun/part_S3_D.jpg

EDIT: something wrong with my head.. forgot to disable some new files (:03:) in S3D and tried to open file in not original version of S3D.. that's why I said Fifi that some entries in particles.dat of FXU are blank.. I wasn't able to open them in S3D and in Goblin these entries were blank :nope:..

TheDarkWraith 05-10-13 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gap (Post 2054375)
PS: based on the settings I have seen so far, I can't figure out what makes torpedo splashes to open up as a fan yet :hmmm:
The EmissionArea property of the FPG/PG. The first float is the size is meters (defines the size of the radius of the emitter's circle), the second float defines the angle (90 being straight up or perpendicular to the face of the emitter). 90 also means everything is basically shooting straight up out of a pipe the radius of size perpendicular to the emitter's face. 45 would give a fan or spray (particles emitting 45 to center and -45 to center)

volodya61 05-11-13 05:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDarkWraith (Post 2054533)
The EmissionArea property of the FPG/PG. The first float is the size is meters (defines the size of the radius of the emitter's circle), the second float defines the angle (90 being straight up or perpendicular to the face of the emitter). 90 also means everything is basically shooting straight up out of a pipe the radius of size perpendicular to the emitter's face. 45 would give a fan or spray (particles emitting 45 to center and -45 to center)
Thanks a lot, TDW :salute:

--------------------------------------------------

http://s19.postimg.org/458096bcv/test2_1.jpg . http://s19.postimg.org/egkd1u327/test2_2.jpg . http://s19.postimg.org/6cc8x3gn3/test2_3.jpg . http://s19.postimg.org/pipg09x4v/test2_4.jpg

http://s19.postimg.org/7sstccpvj/test2_5.jpg . http://s19.postimg.org/4agtfyozj/test2_6.jpg . http://s19.postimg.org/e91s2fyf3/test2_7.jpg

--------------------------------------------------

http://s19.postimg.org/tvt1ftc73/test3_1.jpg . http://s19.postimg.org/bu9wi0i67/test3_2.jpg . http://s19.postimg.org/l3c2s4r27/test3_3.jpg . http://s19.postimg.org/5vw37rz7j/test3_4.jpg

http://s19.postimg.org/uqfl1uk1r/test3_5.jpg . http://s19.postimg.org/nbq99gy67/test3_6.jpg . http://s19.postimg.org/g9sbn9ukf/test3_7.jpg


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