In the u-505 mission i always have to do very extreme things to be detected, like surface the boat :huh: .

stay at close range near to the scorts with scope and the snorchel out at flank speed don´t work.

seems that all are looking underwater and not at the horizont. :down:


i´ts very difficult stay detected but when they detect me ( red icon and a mensage) they went wild running against me, launching depth charges and mortars.

I crash dived to 150 metters but they are looking me and was impossible to scape. :dead: no matter what meneuver i did.

perhaps they have a underwater camera or a rope tied to the sub like Redwine say :rotfl:

i you know just once i wish the game devs would spend a fraction less time and money on the graphics (nice as good graphics are) and a fraction more time and money on the AI- -at the end of the day it is the AI that makes or breaks a game and i can't help worrrying that what will limit our ability to tune the sensors will be the AI-
there is something about the radar here-- i nerfed the radar on the DD's and ran a patrol- not only did they at no point detect me submerged (late 1942 elite crews with modded double range hydrophones LOL) they still didn't even bother to check my area after sinking three ships with TI's (visible steam wakes remember :hmm: ) AND i've added four extra elite DD's to every convoy in the campaign !! so i was up against 8 elite DD's
- i was able to surface well within visual range of the DD's (around 5000 metres broad daylight- no fog- calm seas) they should have gained a visual contact on me with no problem at all- but they didn't- so i chugged away-

it allmost as if - if the radar is nerfed everything else goes down the pan as-well?

they don't program the AI to think- they only program the AI to react---as long as the AI simply reacts to situations instead of thinking about them we'll be left with flawed AI behaviuor and rather basic gameplay-- they don't have to be Einstien, they just need to be able to adapt to different situations with some sense of purpose---give decent thinking AI poor sensors and it will adapt it's tactics to compensate and still be a threat--give poor AI uber sensors and it will allways either kill you easily or miss you altogether, with nothing interesting imbetween
it think thats the limitation were up against-- how to create a "sweet spot" in the AI behaviuor by allowing them to detect you (essentail as they allways need to be woken up in order to start performing?) with-out them switching from useless to uber for no apparent reason--

i found it strange that once equiped with radar the DD's actually seem to stop use-ing their visual sensor altogether- it seems to use the technically strongest sensor with-out checking to see if it is working correctly

the AI in the patrol i've just run simply did not (in effect) post any lookouts on the bridge it just simply assumed that if i was surfaced it would detect me with it's radar--i'd nerfed the radar so instead of running a visual scan it just assumed i wasn't there---doesn't explain why i wasn't detected when submerged tho-- or why they didn't check out the torp wakes--going to be a long tedious job this!

Yes, same happens here, disregarding wich sensor we touch is the same, they do not detect you if you dont to any stupid thing, but when you had been detected, it is near to imposible to break contact disregarding what technic you use.

We need to found how to manage that level of skill. :88)

Completelly agree........ i remeber SH1 AI, i only want that.

Gouldjg.
The test mission is done. I just PM'd you.

or even AOTD!!
for my stuff for SH2
the noise/echo factor (you could add it to the DD UDF files in SH2) was the key in the end to making life interesting ala DES5 etc it was a stock entry that actually only appeared in one seldom seen DD - once i found that entry and used in all the DD's like this

[FRAMEWORK]

[RADAR]
AspectFront = 100.0
AspectSide = 100.0
AspectRear = 100.0

[SOUND]
EchoFront = 10.0
EchoSide = 50.0
EchoRear = 10.0
Noise = 10.0

this covered both the hyrophones and the sonar and allowed for differentail sonar sensitivity depending on the DD's angle of the bow and you subs aspect to it---took me over a year of messing about before i got it half way decent (from my point of view)

we don't have the same flexibility in the same areas in SH3 -- it will be a matter of finding the key elements and perhaps a few hidden entrys as above

have you tried using the hieght factor for the radar ?

im going to try adding a 2metre hightfactor to the SH3 radar in the sim.cfg and see if that does anything interesting--- i'm hoping it will add in some unpredictability on the DD's ability to detect you with radar on the surface-- it will only be able to "see" the very top on the conning tower rather than the whole surfaced area of the sub-
might allso affect the other sensors aswell as the radar seems to be a trigger point for other sensor sweeps

it's all a bit depressing tho how little thought is given to the AI by game devs-- after all if a small hand held computer game console can play a decent game of chess (with all the immense complications that entails) i don't know why something even a fraction as "intelliegnt" can be used in games---be really cool to see some thinking going on on the bridges of the DD's- it's perfectly possible--- the game devs just don't think it's important enough to bother

:damn: i just lost ALL but one of my officers in attack by a lone DD - watch crew didn't see it and it blew the sub to bits---still had 64% hull integrity so dived and tried to sort out the mess - and what a mess it was too!! half the crew dead -- the DD made a DC pass and killed the last surviving officer-- then the DD left--managed to get a repair team together and stop the flooding/ repair the batterys etc but even tho the boat was still sea worthy there was nothing i could do--without an officer to man the helm station the game won't let you maneuver-- so i couldn't surface--and i couldn't even exit the patrol/return to base whilst submerged---catch 22-- there's summat else they didn't thnk about :damn:

i actually had the DAS BOOT moment a couple of patrols ago-- same thing got clobbered by a DD whilst surfaced (my watch crew are useless it seems to me lol) massive flooding 60% hull intergity major system dame right thru the boat-- EVERYTHING was smashed!! and the sub sank-- and sank -- and sank-- then it hit bottom at 130 metres (and due to my modded damage system it didn't kill the boat) so we lay there on the bottom running about like demented flys trying to repair everything and contain the flooding--- gave up on the front torpedo room and quarters and moved every one back to the aft areas-- stopped the flooding in the rest of the boat but sadly the game registered the boat as destroyed when the front torpedo/ quaters room were fully flooded-- real shame that as it would have been highly interesting trying to see if i could salavage the boat- might have to have a look at that se if that's possible

me thinks the game devs didn't think we'd be interested in this sort of thing--only in blowing things up :nope:

Agree too.


No... not yet.


Try a negative value :88) may trigger some sound sensors.


Understand you. I feel the same.

They had done a game, not a sim. ;)
We need to work a lot to aproach it to a sim, remember SH2..... what a lot of job. :dead:

before changing anything, i recommend dropping the "detection time" variable to 0 -- seems to reduce the variability in detection range. it makes testing tweaks re sensitivity and other variables a lot easier, as any changes are more evident -- just good science, reducing the number of factors affecting your dependent variable :know:

also, decreasing sensitivity seems to increase detection range -- can anyone confirm?

i totally agree w/ cb's comments re game ai -- it's the ai that gives a game challenge and replayability, imho. and there's only a handful of tactics for a given situation, as things got standardized by the allies relatively quickly eg creeping attack, operation plaster, use of massed snowflake flares. how hard would it have been to implement? too bad the dev schedule got shortened -- we're the ones that got short-changed.

Redwine wrote:

Fair enough. Wasn't questioning your knowledge in the first place. Only mine.

So if I'm surfaced, I should be able to sneak behing an enemy ship undetected (wich I'm not) with these visual settings for AI.

AI_Visual

MinRange = 0
MaxRange = 12000
MinHeight = 1
MaxHeight = 10000
MinBearing = 0
MaxBearing = 180
MinElevation = 0 (UP)
MaxElevation = 180 (DOWN)
MinSurface = 0

When I draw this to paper, it shows that the enemy isn't looking behind his 3-to-9 line at all. Half of his visual (frontal) hemisphere is under water :o

Well, nevermind. I don't need to understand this anyway :D

@ CB :

About Radar trigger :

I note the Speed factor is responsible of Radar Trigger, if you had setting in example in U-505 a Speed factor of 15, the two DDs around you are cruising at 19knots...... they are deaf, even if you put flank speed they can not to hear you.

Speed factor is a speed limit at wich the sensor can works, then they has no pasive alert, then they not start to ping, they need another alert, as visual or radar to trigger the sensors, when they look you or detect you by radar, they inmediatelly reduce speed to activate their sound sensors.


Thanks i will try.


I think so they looks back well due to these values left and right.

MinBearing = 0
MaxBearing = 180

With these they stablis a half circle in front of you

MinElevation = 0 (UP)
MaxElevation = 180 (DOWN)

With these values they stablish a half reavolution left and a half revolution right for that half circle.

a henisphere left and a hemisfere right.

Finally they stablish a complete sphere, why ? you can not see underwater..... same as with radar.

As i say before, there is a sailor with his head inside the water. :rotfl:

Some precisions:
Over water from front to rear :
Min Height= 0, it's the elevation at sea level (0°) so parallel to the horizon
viewed from the bow of a ship.
Max Heigth= 90 it is the line of sight perpendicular to the horizon (max elevation of an AA gun, for exemple)
Max Height=180 tis is the line of sight parallel to the horizon but rearward.
The oposite for underwater height range
the values goes from 90° front (mirror of 0° above water) to 180° rear
if you put a value of MinHeight=0 to a sonar sensor, the sonar will search the skies!
Bearing is = to traverse for guns

I think the Bearing angles are measured from the bow direction... MinBearing=0 represents the bow direction (forward), and MaxBearing=180 represents the stern direction (backward). Then the arc covered by the sensor is assumed to be symmetrical with respect to the bow: MinBearing=0, MaxBearing=180, represent a covered arc from 0 to 180 degrees from bow, and from 0 to -180 degrees from bow, and therefore the 360 degrees around the ship.

Txema

Hi Kaleunt !
Do not confuse Height with Elevation, elevation is given in degrees, but height in meters.
0, 90, 180 are for bearing and elevation not for height.

Min and max heights are the floor and ceiling limits for you beams.

For sonars pasive and active, min height must to be negative, underwater in example for hydrophone

MaxHeight = 0 (surface) ( -5 > 5m under the surface)
MinHeight = -300 (300m depth)
MaxElevation = 95 ( 5 deg under the horizontal, at surface or 5m under the surface)
MinElevation = 80 ( 10 deg up the horizontal, at surface or 5 m under the surface)

:up:

Agree. :up:

Sorry, was a mistype. I i wanted to talk aof "Elevation", just to give some
info for anyone wanting to tweak some values.

Well, elevation zero is just pointing up, 90 is forward, and 180 is just down of the point of zero height.

in example if you put

MinElevation = 90
MaxElevation = 180

you are sacaning a quarter of circle in front and under you, but if you add

MaxHeight = -200
MinHeight = -500

you are descending this quarter of circle (and the sensor) 200 meters under you, and a sub in fron of you at 100m depth will be not detected.