SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - School shooting in Germany leaves 16 dead

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Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwi_2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomen

Damn, that totally sucks. Why allways schools.. :nope:
Wonder how he got his hands on the weapons in the first place.

As morbid as it is, I wonder on whom or what they (especially the media) try to pin it this time. As far as I remember, last time they tried to blame video games and stuff.

Haven't read the whole thread but was just watching 'BBC World News' here and the German Police stated they think they know why he killed so many ppl, when searching his computer they found violent computer games.:hmmm: Not saying they are wrong in that statement but come on, I don't think for one second that violent computer games caused him to kill.

Tell me one youngster not having some kind of ego shooter on his computer. It's as common nowadays as plastic soldiers and war playtools 50 years ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremy8529

Guys, I just skimmed over the tread to be honest, but I believe one of the reasons that these shooting happen at schools is because of mistreatment. You have these student's that never really did fit in the first place, and the "cool" and the "popular" people make it there bussnise to make these "freaks" pay for being different. Most of the time, these people are physicly and emotionaly intimitated for so long, that they just eventualy snap and lust for revenge. Their brains end up getting so warped they belive that they are doing the world a favor, by striking back at society for the good of people like them selves. If you havn't noticed, most of these people that do these shootings, are not motivted by greed, and very few of them are the "happy" people in life.

The reasons for all this I think are bit more complex, even though you are on the right track.

I think only very few realize how different our society is nowadays compared to just 30 years ago.

First of all, society is fragmenting. Up until the 50ies, you will notice most everybody had the same fashion, living very comparable lifes, communities going to church or public services on a voluntary basis. Most ppl lived by rules defined by the great majority and did well with it. Common values and steady, hardly changing jobs gave a security not to be found today.
Instead individualism, though not bad in general, nevertheless causes society to splitter up, making ppl lose their holding within social groups and leave them alone in the open to care for themselves. If they can't, they are labelled as lazy or are pressured into acting against their personality. What they first expiriences as freedom led them the way to lonelyness. There are more singles and more divroces nowadays then ever before. Only the strong and determined have chances in such an environment, everybody with defencies in this regard are left behind. And that's even what they are told right into their faces.
Telling them to straighten up and develop self discipline is more easily said then done.

Another problem is choices. This may sound odd, but ppl have too many choices what to do nowadays, and with too many choices there are too many variables to go wrong. In past times, ppl only had limited options in their lives. And once, for example, they settled for a job, they could be pretty sure to stay within that job for the rest of their lives. Today everybody is asked to be flexible, learn all your life, get into different jobs. This starts in school already and puts a stress on ppl during all of their lives never seen before. Constant fear off losing a job by some big company streamlining their business for shareholder value is the norm nowadays, even if ppl worked hard all their lives. One mistake, or none at all, can be enough to ruin the rest of your live.

Now I am not saying to go back to a uniform and streamlines model, for that i am too much a fan of varyity, but the backsides of this come to light to an ever increasing degree and solutions must be found to deal with this.

And let's not forget a trend of idealizing certain role models in the media, giving boys and girls alike the impression of having to fullfill criteria of beauty and demeanor impossible to fullfill from the earliest years on. It's not like us old brats who grew up in different times and thus have the self esteem to overlook and deal with these issues. Constant complexes and dissatisfaction coupled with a lack of understanding by a society that is completly focussed on success does it's own to destroy any self esteem right from the start. Without loving and understanding parents children nowadays hardly stand a chance to get a good live even started.

And opposite to media induced perception this is more common then not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bewolf

Oh yeah, lots of IEDs going up here on a regular basis by all these kids wanting to kill without having a gun. Scissors and knives used on a regular basis to get some old fashioned school massacre up and running. Yeah, expirence really proved that one. :88)

The argument of other means used to kill but a gun is getting old.

And car traffic - do not forget the lethality of car traffic! :ping:

oh yeah! right, I forgot indeed, cars were designed as weapons as well and regulary driven into schools to kill! how could I have missed that. :damn:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bewolf

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremy8529

The reasons for all this I think are bit more complex, even though you are on the right track.

I think only very few realize how different our society is nowadays compared to just 30 years ago.

First of all, society is fragmenting. Up until the 50ies, you will notice most everybody had the same fashion, living very comparable lifes, communities going to church or public services on a voluntary basis. Most ppl lived by rules defined by the great majority and did well with it. Common values and steady, hardly changing jobs gave a security not to be found today.
Instead individualism, though not bad in general, nevertheless causes society to splitter up, making ppl lose their holding within social groups and leave them alone in the open to care for themselves. If they can't, they are labelled as lazy or are pressured into acting against their personality. What they first expiriences as freedom led them the way to lonelyness. There are more singles and more divroces nowadays then ever before. Only the strong and determined have chances in such an environment, everybody with defencies in this regard are left behind. And that's even what they are told right into their faces.
Telling them to straighten up and develop self discipline is more easily said then done.

Another problem is choices. This may sound odd, but ppl have too many choices what to do nowadays, and with too many choices there are too many variables to go wrong. In past times, ppl only had limited options in their lives. And once, for example, they settled for a job, they could be pretty sure to stay within that job for the rest of their lives. Today everybody is asked to be flexible, learn all your life, get into different jobs. This starts in school already and puts a stress on ppl during all of their lives never seen before. Constant fear off losing a job by some big company streamlining their business for shareholder value is the norm nowadays, even if ppl worked hard all their lives. One mistake, or none at all, can be enough to ruin the rest of your live.

Now I am not saying to go back to a uniform and streamlines model, for that i am too much a fan of varyity, but the backsides of this come to light to an ever increasing degree and solutions must be found to deal with this.

And let's not forget a trend of idealizing certain role models in the media, giving boys and girls alike the impression of having to fullfill criteria of beauty and demeanor impossible to fullfill from the earliest years on. It's not like us old brats who grew up in different times and thus have the self esteem to overlook and deal with these issues. Constant complexes and dissatisfaction coupled with a lack of understanding by a society that is completly focussed on success does it's own to destroy any self esteem right from the start. Without loving and understanding parents children nowadays hardly stand a chance to get a good live even started.
And opposite to media induced perception this is more common then not.

I agree, thats my point to, but i could not explain in English like you do, using a
wrong word could upshet some people like it did in my "SAD DAY IN BELGIUM" thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aramike

Finally, school shootings are extremely rare. It would be dangerous to think that some other kind of attack isn't possible or even likely.

The largest school massacre in US history was not committed with a gun but rather a bomb (three bombs actually).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aramike

Finally, school shootings are extremely rare. It would be dangerous to think that some other kind of attack isn't possible or even likely.

The largest school massacre in US history was not committed with a gun but rather a bomb (three bombs actually).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

Good call. :rock:

"I can't take any more ... I thought this sort of thing only happened in America. But it seems that America has come to Germany."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/7937772.stm

Yes, America is responsible if you sneeze and cough. :shifty:

Perhaps she wanted to say "America came to Germany before TO CLOSE DOWN THE CONCENTRATION CAMPS AND LIBERATE THE POPULATION."

Interesting find, though slightly different as that guy wasn't a student and did it for entirely different reasons then your teenage high school shooter.

Getting back to IEDs though they have been attempted in the past, The plan for Columbine had been to use 2 propane bombs which they had set up in the cafeteria under the library which were to go off at lunch time. If they had gone off the casualties would have been massive as it would have destroyed the cafeteria and probably brought the library above crashing down. When the bombs didn't go off then Harris and Klebold went in shooting (they were waiting outside). The 2 also brought several pipe bombs all of which also failed to detonate.

All told they had 2 propane bombs, several pipe bombs and even some molotovs. According to wiki they built a total of 99 IEDs

In this case it's very lucky that these kids didn't know how to properly make IEDs or the casualties would have been in in the hundreds.

Lastly those 2 bought their guns through legal and semi legal channels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbi...chool_massacre

Oh my god, what. Did you just say that? Why? This was, for once, a reasonable discussion, and you (Who took no part in the rest of the thread) must come and invoke Godwin's law for the sheer hell of it? :nope:

I wonder if Germany will now go down the same route as the UK did and ban ownership of handguns :hmmm:

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

I wonder if Germany will now go down the same route as the UK did and ban ownership of handguns :hmmm:

It was mentioned by some politicians that sport shooters should store their weapons in safe rooms in the club bulding, and not be allowed to take them home and store them in a safe anymore. While I cannot object much to that, it is not practical, since the number of weapons clubhouses would need to store would increase by a factor of three at least, and these storage capacities simply are not there. Such buildings also would be made attractive targets for criminals, eventually.

In Germany it is mandatory that oyu must store your weapon and ammunition separately, and mostly in a safe or special weapon safe, while hunting weapons (long rifles) eventually are allowed to be stored in locked cabinets inside locked rooms. For transportation from shooting gallery to home and back, locked suitcases are needed.

Carrying a weapon concealed is principally banned for private persons in Germany, which I think is a very, very good thing.

But we have far too many sunday hunters and folklore shooters in Germany, and many of them can'T shoot well - my father says both ambitioned sports shooter as well as members of the police that he met on shooting galleries in Berlin and now in Münster look down on them with disgust. Some years ago while I was still at university I drove with friends in a car through a regional forest, wehre a group of these freaks hat assembled. They shot over the street from one side to the other, killing a goose on the other side, just some meters from us away, although they had seen us coming. Schießwütiges Spießbürger-Geschmeiß - ballert wild herum und auf alles, was sich bewegt. And afterwards aprés-hunt with loads of beer and german Volksmusik.

Of course we should have called the police and filed the incident. But hey we were young, in a hurry, and a bit crazy outselves, so...

As worse and disgusting are trophy hunters.