I understand how those modders feel.

It all started with a bunch of skins I've did back in the UT '99 days. A couple of months after I had released them, I found them all over the 'net without proper credits and -injury to the insult- a clan was using them, altered with their logo, and distributed along with a map-pack they were boasting as a in-house production.

I still love to mod games but now, whatever I do, I keep it for myself. Lesson learnt.

OK heres an idea...since X1 wants to sell other peoples mods. why not set up a chat room and have a"town meeting"If you want to sell their mods give them credit where credit is due,and pay them for their work.Face it without the support of the small but strong Subsim community they'll be wasting ALOT of money.Nobody is going to win in a situation like this and the best thing for all involved is to sit down and talk.I'm sure X1 would rather talk to the modders than their legal advisors,and it seems several have been talking to them.
So OSSI why not give this a chance?You're trying to package and sell an item that can be had for free.work with the modders and maybe everyone can come out of this a winner.

Msxyz, I'm very sorry to hear that. Anyone that steals mods and claims them as their own doesn't deserve the use of them or any other mod. May their computers burn out as fast as they installed them.

The same has happen to skins for IL2 and many skin makers have quit too. It's a dirty rotten shame that a few ruin it for the many. But as with sites that are dishing out bootlegged games, it just shows there is no honor among thieves.

I don't know if I have any of your mods but if I do, my hat is off to you and your work. And tha same goes for anyone that has the talent I don't to make these mods and skins. I salute you all, whether you continue or not. ~S!~

I wouldn't have been so bad if X1 had made an effort to pay the modders their fair share for the work they did. It's gone too far now to go back and make amends I think. No one will trust anyone again, and that's sad.

Lets see now from my BS point of view. How many people have downloaded any one mod?
Please, can someone answer that? Anyone? Anyone?
It is my guess 100,000 copies and likely more have been sold of SH3. So, by your expertise, 182 you assume what, 50,000 downloads of certain mods each?
Anyone dare to reveal the number of mod DLs

Now, lets review what evidence X1 has admitted, for the record.

They have permission to use the mods included in their payware.
That is my understanding. Show me actual proof they do not
They have also included mods by others, many freeware mods, at no additional charge, that the user can also add if they choose. They have included the read me and given credit, as I understand it
Any mod maker that does not want their mod on this CD or believes they are not credited with their work should email X-1 and make their case known.
Don’t assume, do it or shut up.
If you made a mod and wonder, email them, they have a contact email for you to do this. Be fair, communicate, find the facts or shut up!

Of course, that is just too reasonable for the angry mob that wants to see a hangin.

Instead, put on a web site arm band and parade your bandwagon hatred for those that are going to buy that mansion on the Rivera with the sweat off the downtrodden mod makers.
There is likely millions in this add on, they will certainly be rich while keeping the modders down!!

As I said, I will wait for "all" the facts but I dare any of you in the KKK style mob to make a claim if found wrong you will be as vocal in your apology as in your Kristalnacht rampage before the facts.

I will bet you will scurry under the floor boards and hide your white hoods when the daylight appears.
What in the world will you say if this is not the crime you contend?

I will continue to view evidence as it is presented and ask any modder that complains if they have contacted X-1 or not. If it is found X-1 are indeed the bad guys, I will join the march but will not resort to the childish behavior many seem to insist on.

Wulfmann

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/803/ssx19xm.jpg

Is this skin available somewhere?... I'm looking for a download link...

This would look really good on the Commerce Raider... :up:

(flag mod too!)...

Cordialement, Duke of Earl

Poor Wulfmann has been lied to, or he is a paid mouthpeace for X1

The message you he so proudly shows is from Reg? Are you sure that's his real name? We know his real identity (which he has to hide cause sim community knows it already - a reputation he is trying to shed).

There is also a steadily growing list of people who's mods are in SEEWOLVES without their permission. It is not 1 person. That is why they released a statement (though not to you - as it doesn't concern you) that they are now removing all that content.

X1 are also trying to buy these people off with free copies as we speak. I have seen these emails from more than one source.

Your own correspondence is deliberatley false and from someone who can't be honest enough with you to tell you their own name. :)

Nice. Do you still feel like you are alone in knowing the true facts...?

hmmmm, U.Boot.RealSimulation.com had more than 2 Terabyte traffic in June 2005...I don't think people aren't downloading mods.... :rotfl:

Wulfmann I think they evidence that you need to show that X1 have, without permission included people's free mods is shown in another thread here where terrapin has posted the setup readmes included with mods in the package that still bear teh modders name and also some of the modders who created the mods in the first place have recognised their mods in the package.

If this happens with SCX or DWX when it comes I'll be out for bear :)

Hey Wulfman! Under which rock did you hide during the last two days? You are not up-to-date, so to say!

Now look what Doenitz has to say about X1 and Porno-Ossi!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...60/doenitz.jpg

I think the focus is shifting a bit. The accusation is that they do not have permission, it is up to them to show they do. There is proof X1 has included non-original work in their mod. Since others have claimed these were "pirated", the proof would be on X1's side to establish their "right" to these works.

Were this a court, as it may well end up, the plaintiff/prosecution would lay out a case against X1, charging them with attempting to sell materials they don't own. Let's avoid any emotionally charged language, any inflammatory rhetoric and leave it at that. Simplistic, but even handed.

The plaintiff/prosecution would have to show X1 is willfully marketing a product, not their own, without permission.
So far, it has been shown that not all content in X1's expansion is of their own manufacture.

X1 would, in turn, have the right to confront the witnesses and evidence against them. In this case, they merely need to show permission from the modders whose works have been included.

I'm honestly asking if this has been done? You claim they have done this, this is your understanding, yet turn around and demand proof. In the sense of fairness and even tempered handling, I would like to see proof that they have/had permission. Either a written declaration, or the modders themselves posting here.

You say you will wait for all the facts, what else is still remaining, in your opinion? You're satisfied with X1's explanation, are you asking for further proof that the mods were included without permission?

BTW, as an American AND one who has spent his adult life working for various government agencies to oppose groups like the KKK, I do take exception to your comments above. This situation seems tense enough as is, we don't need to accuse each other of membership in such an odious organization.

I will make you this promise. If it can be proven, beyond reasonable doubt, that X1 had permission from the modders in question prior to this story breaking, I will sound my apology on this forum loud and clear. I had asked in my earlier posts to be proved wrong by them, in fact I was hoping to be proven wrong, that they would come forth and say "here's what we're using and here's the permission". They didn't have to tip their hand and detail everything in the mod, since I'm sure there was plenty of their own original content; I would have been satisfied with a simple "we used Pato's mod, Observer's mod, X/Y/Z's mod with their permission"...that would have established their bona fides quite simply.

They chose instead silence, subterfuge, mockery as their responses.

Wulfmann, there are two things I would respectfully request of you. Number one is to refrain from ordering people to "shut up", regardless of the condition you place upon the request. That's not only rude, but it supports the totalitarian mind set you accuse others of having. Number two would be to not resort to comparisons of the sort you have engaged in. The Klan, like the Nazis, represent for many people that which is least desirable in humanity. I doubt you intended such a slur, but that is what you did. For those of us who have seen their villany, and attempt to combat it on a daily basis, such comparisons are very unappreciated. I'm sorry, but I cannot think of an appropriate mechanism to carry my sense of indignation at such a comment.

I couldn't resist anymore, I just HAD to borrow the sig to show my support...
I promise I'll be a good skipper and not try to sell it :up:

EXCELLENT POST!!

If the evidence, not the mob hysteria, shows that X-1 has intentionally defrauded people, that can be shown by facts not childish Nazi style rhetoric. I will happily join any ban of their product

So far most of what I have heard is general ranting with little to no fact.

Taking the wait and see now has me labeled as on the payroll of someone I have made one email to for an explanation and I freely posted that. You prove by that moronic statement my case.

The fact I blatantly stated I have nothing to do with X-1, in any way still has me labeled as an enemy, of what, reason, a desire for proof before we string them up?
So if someone does not take your side and shout hang'em, down with them, then they too will be sent to the camps?

I repeat, how many mods have been downloaded? That is, name the top 5 mods and the number of times they have been downloaded and then get a figure on the number of SH3 sales and do the math. Let’s see the numbers not the number of times people have looked at RealUboat.com but exact numbers of DLs. Hect, I have checked there hundreds of times but DL the ones I want once.

Make your ignorance known by claiming most end users download. That is an admittance of knowing nothing regarding the freeware mod world.

True, I have not released any mods but I have made a few. I will not be doing much here in modding but to suggest I am ignorant of this situation is wrong.
I have suggested all modders simply list the site that mod can be offered and insist it can not be redistributed without paying $100,000.00, what I add to my CFS3 mods after a similar situation found many of our mods on a flight sim site requiring a membership fee to cover band width.

I am not against joining a legitimate ban, but I am against the mentality that brought us Kristalnacht, KKK cross burnings and other whip the crowd into frenzy insanity. That is the manner this group is presenting, a hate fest beyond the scope of the problem.

Let the facts speak for themselves. Start presenting real fact, please. You were quick to make vague statements to allow this to be a flame beyond what is healthy for the community.

And if X-1 is reading this, please come clean on every mod by contacting each person and eliminate any mod you do not get direct permission for its use. X-1 could also go far to cool this down and improve their tarnished image by a straight forward addressing of the concerns expressed by many, even if wrongly ignorant, there is enough to indicate you must actively engage in correcting anything even seemingly improper. A healthy Sub Sim community is in everybody’s interest.

Wulfmann

Thats right! You better not try to sell my 5-min sig or I shall sue you into poverty! :hulk:

lol its cool glad you like it. :D

Regardless of the have they taken someone's mod and making money argument there is the EULA with SHIII to contend with.

I am in the SCX mod team and hopefully the DWX team.

We have had alot of support from SCS on this.

The EULA though quite clearly says that we can mod the game eg alter the dbase, add models etc but we can't sell the mods.

X1 are doing this in effect so regardless of whether they have permission or not if they haven't got a deal with UBI then they are probably breaking an EULA in SHIII. Like SCX I am understanding that a lot of SHIII modding is manipulating what is already there from the outset of the sim...so although UBI let people mod they wouldn't like it if mods start getting sold...

The only way I could see a mod being sold would be if it was seperate from the game completely, ie a new 3d model that is made independent of the sim and uses no data from it.

Well, I think this is more a case of a few individuals trying to stiff others, steal their work and make money. Sure it contains some of their own original work, but that would not be enough to sell on its own. So they took a other peoples items. Reg/Len says all but one person was contacted to ask permission - that is apparently not so.

The community is just reacting. I have not seen any lynchings. Infact I think its been pretty proportionate. This exists only in the internet, well except the legal stuff that is rumoured to be going on...

I agree with Wulfman

S-9216,
I was writing my reply above before I saw your excellent post with many good points.
However, when people take a mob mentality and act like the KKK or Nazis I will say they are acting just like they are acting. If they have a right to prejudice, I have a right to say they are acting prejudice.

I too will vocally join the chorus of unfair and foul play and ban X-1, after the verdict is in and not the mod hysteria that generalizes this topic.

My beef is nothing regarding X-1; it is the attitude of mob mentality that has permeated this topic. In CFS3 I have been one of the mod makers that other felt they needed to show their support for in a similar situation. But, we insisted we obtain the facts before we acted. I am asking for a like, and I believe reasonable, approach..

My shut up was a challenge to act or don’t complain; put up or shut up. It stands as is. If anyone believes there is a mod of theirs on the X-1 product, speak up or don’t cry about it, do something about it. Don’t be a whiner.

We also have the ability to make a positive influence in shaping an X-1 mod that would benefit SH3 and enlarge our community in spite of the ignorance that most users are also downloaders. If X-1 can get permission, add what they rightfully created, then add things the community believes would help the end user that is afraid to do more than put in a DVD and click express install, we would all benefit more than the SH3 war now raging to the benefit of no one.
Wulfmann

If you would look through the posts you'll see several modders who say their work is in the mod and they didn't give permission for them to use them.IF X1 is really caring about their image and IF they really want to market something like this then they need to talk to the modders.People are reacting to the situation the way they are because X1 started the whole thing by their actions.IF they want to help their sells and IF they really are a decent company then they do need to do ALOT of damage control.
Unfortuately calling people KKK members and saying it's a lynch mob isn't going to help X1...are you on their pay roll?or do you speak for them? I appricate your standing up for them and asking for evidence..but look at the start of this thread and read the read mes included with the their mod.
also read through and you'll see several of the modders whos work is on teh their mod..they say they didn't give permission..to me thats a open and close case.X1 needs to sit down with teh modders and get their permission or take ALL the modders work,not their work,but every mod that they don't have permission to use out.OK I know that will leave about a 1 meg disc. so if they want to use them ask..sign a deal.ok so they don't get 100% of the profits..but maybe IF all the modders release a mod for free that has all their work put together then maybe they;ll think twice.I just hope they are ready for the response if they release their work without everyones permission,and the well we tried to get them but they didn't answer us won't hold water.Get a name on a dotted line or get teh mod out.I am hoping they will act with honor and maturity and do the right thing.