This was a racially motivated crime, so it could easily be called domestic terrorism. No problem with that, but seeing the PC crowd get all wound up over the labels when they have nothing to say about the crime and killings elsewhere is sad.

And I'm sick of hearing pundits squeal about the racial divide etc in this country. That's BS, plain and simple. As a truck driver I work with a lot of people of color, every day I interact with black people. Probably half of the truck drivers I know are black. There's no issue with working people of all colors, as far as I can see.

What you say is true Neal - for you and those blacks you come into contact with.

But, the reality is also true that there is a percentage of people - and it is not unique to only one race group - who do not want to "rub shoulders" with any group other than their own kind. And groups can be based on any number of types such as race, religion, gender, ability, profession, nationality, etc.

All systems - political, economic and social - are dynamic within all countries in the world. Some stagnate, some regress, and some advance at any given time. But whatever they do there will always be a certain sector within any community afraid of the change and feel that they are been marginalised and threatened. That the life they have grown up in, become accustomed to, and have felt safe in is shifting and changing under their feet.

This makes perfect breeding grounds for hatred and prejudice to grow within those communities who cannot cope and cannot adapt to change. Some individuals and collectives within those groups can become ticking time bombs.

We have had it in SA, Europe, America, Middle East - in fact all over the world. I do not have the answer.
What I do know, is one does not need aspirant politicians trying to garner support on these perceived fears. We have a lot of that here in South Africa.

And it troubles me for example, that in America, one has a lose canon like Trump spouting he will make America great again. What does he mean by that? In what way? America is a great country and will be so for the foreseeable future. It has its problems - but none are unique to it.

The problem lies in that they are happening too often. And that is the question Obama posed.

I'll admit, perhaps I jumped a little too quickly into this, but I call it as I see it, and domestic or not, it was still an act of terror, even if it doesn't count as such under US domestic law. Others won't see it that way, and that's how it is.
However, pundits or no pundits, there certainly does seem to be a problem even if it's not visible at the local level. If there was not a problem then we wouldn't be in this situation, would we? With a white kid with a gun convinced that black people are 'raping' and 'taking over' the country. Something has gotten into that kids head that has made him think that way, most likely it is, yes, coupled with a mental illness, but hate is not born, hate is taught. No-one is born hating anyone else (except perhaps whatever being just forced you out of that nice warm liquid cocoon into a harsh bright cold room) but along the line we are taught discrimination through both society and family. Does that mean that it is inevitable that people will hate? Not always, it can be unlearnt, it can be removed but never usually totally.
To be fair to America, this is not a purely Americo-centric problem, it may seem that way, and the ease of access to firearms may perhaps be a part of making a bad situation worse, but it's a problem that affects the whole western world. In America it's Blacks, in Europe it's Muslims and Eastern Europeans, it's all the same thing, fear of the unknown, fear of something that isn't the same as you. Fear of change. I think that social-economic situations also come into it, with the whole wealth gap, but that's a whole kettle of fish for another thread.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CH0mBaeUwAAvW_3.jpg:large

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploa...hock-signs.gif

That moment when you and Bill O'Reilly agree on something...



I'm going for a lie down now... :dead:

Ditto:agree:

Leaving race aside for a second too, let's also compare this to Tsarnaev who was widely called a terrorist from the very start, although aside from his brother, no link has been proven between him and any organized terror - just some twisted ideas. I don't remember there being much public debate on whether Tsarnaev was a terrorist or not - only his lawyers seemed to be seriously convinced that he wasn't. That said, I doubt this guy's fate will be much different from Tsarnaev's - and given that it's SC and not MA, the death penalty will likely be brought out with far less hesitation, too.

Raping his women?
 

Maybe if they hadn't been dragging their feet on Cosby...:-?

Theory on how this works vis a vis Tsarnaev.


If mass shootings are to be considered terrorism, they are then so common in the US so that no politician can make a case for keeping people safe.

If they are not terrorism, then we haven't failed to prevent terrorism.

Ergo this.

Not that I sign up to that logic, quite the opposite.

There's not much public debate about this new guy being a terrorist either except for a couple of guys here on the forum and Oberons anonymous crowd of homicidal maniac labelers.

FWIW the justice department has already opened investigations over civil rights violations and terrorism.
http://news.yahoo.com/charleston-sho...185304724.html

Have only one thing to say about this

It makes me so sad, there's so much hate in this world

Such anonymous people as:

Jon Stewart
Bill O'Reilly
Abraham H. Foxman (Director of the Anti-Defamation League and Lawyer)
Daryl Johnson (former team leader at the DHS)
Bernie Sanders
The Justice Department


And numerous online media outlets, and some offline ones too, if Jon Stewart and Bill O'Reilly are anything to go by.

I mean, for gods sake, I'm as left wing as they come and Bill O'flipping REILLY and I are in agreement...

https://paradefieldrejects.files.wor...1-24-44-pm.png

But yes, my Anonymous crowd of homicidal maniac labellers, my PC police, we brave few, we band of happy brothers. :yeah:

And let's just recap here, before I get called the PC Police again.

I started this thread labelled the perpetrator of this attack a terrorist. Domestic or otherwise, I called him a terrorist and sent my prayers to the families of the victims and to the survivors. Ok?

Then I get taken to task for calling it a terrorist attack, by no less than two people. I get called 'Pathetic' for calling it a terrorist attack. Do I have an agenda? My only agenda is to call this what it is, if it had been a black guy shooting up a white church, I would still consider it an act of domestic terrorism, akin to the Black Panthers (who I'm surprised we've not heard more from in recent months).
Because I want to make sure that it doesn't matter what ethnicity, religion, sex or age this person is, if he sets out to cause terror, then he is by my definition and that of the dictionary, a terrorist, and for this I am 'Pathetic'. In Rockstars counter-arguement he states that he was not a regular terrorist nor likely a domestic terrorist. I concede that legally this was likely the case, however since then it has been announced that the Department of Justice is going to be looking at this as an act of Domestic terrorism.
I have labelled this...person...from the start as a terrorist, and his actions as an act of terror. I am not alone in this labelling, and far from there being little discussion about it, if one were to look at social media regarding the event, one would find quite a significant amount of discussion about it, with a great majority labelling it an act of terror.

If there has been any labelling going on here, it's been by people wanting to find excuses not to name this psychopath a terrorist.

But, by all means, dismiss me as the PC police as always, stick two fingers up at me, it's your decision, but ultimately we will see what the Department of Justice says, and until then I will reiterate my initial post which put forward my thoughts and prayers to the victims families and to the survivors of this terrorist attack on America.

What I was referring to was:

So aside from the fact that none of the people you listed actually post here it seems that they were just as quick to label a white guy as a terrorist as they would any other individual or group that commits such a heinous crime.

Also since you include the Justice Department in your list it should be noted that they have been far far quicker to call this white guy a terrorist than they were with the Arab Ft. Hood killer which as I recall took months and months and finally did so only after considerable public pressure.

But wasn't the first page of this thread people refruting my initial statement that this was an act of terror? Two people, in fact, and my response that you quoted was in response to being called pathetic for calling this an act of terror because I had an agenda.
I don't think I had any more or less of an agenda than the people who derailed the Australian hostage situation thread into a rant/gloat on Gun Control, in the fifth posting on the thread.

Well maybe he did have an agenda and maybe he didn't but regardless it was just two people who disagreed and only one of them actually insulted you so I still don't see how that makes a crowd.