Originally Posted by DarkFish (Post 1487227)

Ok, one advantage of being drunk is that you see everything a 1000 times more clearly:O:
There is no proof any god exists or doesn't exist. It's no use discussing about that. All I know is that if the christian god really exists, I will end up in Hell. Sending me to Hell for something as simple as not believing in the christian god would make very clear the christian god is a sadistic being longing for power. The kind of being I would not want to live with for a whole eternity.
If it's really that simple, I prefer the christian devil.

Germanic Paganism at the very least doesn't have a hell (which proves the relative sadism of the christian belief), and furthermore it doesn't matter what one beliefs, but only what kind of person you are.

Heil Æsir ok Ásynjur ok Vanir! Ek mun deyja heiðinn! Dauðr Kristi!

Originally Posted by TarJak (Post 1487612)

I didn't exist before I was born and I won't exist after I die. Like just about everything else in this universe, everything has a beginning and an end with no need for there to be an everlasting continuum of existence.

Originally Posted by Sammi79 (Post 1486901)

There is no evidence supporting the existence of God/Gods/creationist myths. There are vast amounts of evidence to support scientific theories about how the universe came into being and how life in all its present forms came to be (in its present form.) I cannot claim to know if Jehovah, Toutatis or Osiris exists/existed or not with absolute certainty. I can however firmly state that the existence of any God/Gods is extremely unlikely.

To deny the obvious nature of evolution and its driving forces is comparable to denying that the earth is roughly spherical rather than flat or that the earth orbits the sun. These two things we know to be a fact and anyone who denies it is being intentionally ignorant. Human beings share parts of their DNA with almost all other life forms on this earth including plants, insects, birds, mammals, fish, and any others that you can think of. We are all distant cousins of every other living thing.

The intelligent design argument is flat out flawed. Human eyes are among the most inefficient in the animal world, coupled with the fact that the 'design' itself leads to myopia almost invariably as we get older. The fact that we walk upright demands we have narrow hips which is counter productive when females give birth through their hips, which leads to human babies being born vastly premature with their brains and skull bones inadequately formed causing a greatly increased parental dependancy time for the offspring. We only grow two sets of teeth (apart from in very very rare cases) in short, the 'design' of the human being is far from perfect.

The argument that without religion or God that humans would have no empathy or morals is just as flawed. If you admit that without any fear of divine retribution you would happily go around killing, stealing, or worse then you are obviously at least a sociopath if not a complete psycho and we would be well advised to lock you up now before by some chance you decide that in light of recently observed evidence that God does not exist. Empathy comes from the concept of putting yourself in someone/something elses shoes. I sometimes accidentally kill small creatures (spiders, beetles etc.) as I work outdoors and the inevitable feeling of guilt comes from my imagination about how I would feel if our roles were reversed, and how the situation could have been avoided. The trick is, I hold myself accountable for these accidents and if I see a way to avoid them (peacefully evicting a spider before I drop a 3.5 ton load on his new house) then I will always attempt to do so.

I do not write to offend and if it causes offence I am truly sorry. I feel only that it is my duty to say these things, and if by some miraculous chance that God does exist, then he obviously wants me to be an Atheist and I am fairly sure he wants you and everybody else to be too.

Originally Posted by TarJak (Post 1487612)

Judeo Christian life after death is based on carrot vs stick thinking. If you are good you get a reward, if you are bad you get punished. Simplistic I know but that's the basis.

I'd like to understand why people feel there is a need for an afterlife at all. Is it the fear of being forgotten? No longer being part of the herd?

I didn't exist before I was born and I won't exist after I die. Like just about everything else in this universe, everything has a beginning and an end with no need for there to be an everlasting continuum of existence. Sure some thing shave very long lives by our relatively miniscule standards, but in the end the laws of entropy will envelop this universe and potentially create the next, if indeed that's what happened this time.

I'm comfortable with knowing that my molecular structures will live on in my children and theirs and so on. After my death the will continue to exist by being returned to the universe as they break down to the basic elements we are all made from.

I don't find that thought in any way frightening nor difficult to understand and to be honest it makes more logical sense that a "spirit/soul", the existence of which cannot be proven by our science, will live on forever in some version of either "heaven" or "hell".

If we are not in "heaven/paradise" already, then where are we? In my opinion, life itself is paradise with everything we need for happiness available to us but not without risk. The risks in your life are what make you feel alive and the risks you take are largely in proportion to the rewards on offer from taking those risks.

Taking risks is an essential element in the human condition and any lessening of the risks means that we lose the ability to learn from our mistakes or feel the exhiliration of being alive that risks provide. At these times people are usually feeling the best they are likely to ever feel.

If you took no risks you would never get out of bed, but that would lead to a risk of bed sores so even that option is not entirely without risk.

How dull it would be to have nothing to be anxious about, nothing more dangerous or exciting in your life than breathing in and out.

The need to feel unfettered by concerns, anxieties and risks would end up making us much duller and less experienced and far less able beings than we currently are.

A paradise without risk seems to me, would be an empty existence, without the thrill of being alive and having something at stake. So my plan is to enjoy life, take some risks and no worry about what happens when I'm not here anymore other than making sure my death is not a financial burden for my remaining family when I go.

Originally Posted by CaptainMattJ. (Post 1487658)

im not quite sure if you took my post the wrong way :doh:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike (Post 1487648)

Well there is a everlasting continuum of sorts.

This is where I think the Buddhists got it right.

In no chemical reaction is any matter created or destroyed.

Every atom in you body was created in the furnace of a star and blasted in to the universe when it exploded, it was seeded through out the universe forming the basis for new stars and planets. Long after you die our star expands in to a red giant and consumes the Earth then expels most of the remaining mater in to the universe as a planetary nebula forming the basis for future stars, planets and perhaps entire civilizations.

I think that the idea that perhaps an entire civilization was formed or will form out of some of the atoms from my body is more comforting than any angles on white clouds with harps or 72 virgins or whatever some say is waiting for us.

Originally Posted by Sammi79 (Post 1487695)

Sorry CaptainMatt I did not take your post the wrong way, i just wanted to describe that just because there will never be absolute proof either way does not mean there is an even chance of it being true or not - to me it is no great conundrum. I am convinced there is no God and no afterlife. Heaven and hell exist for people here on earth within their experience. Of course I can see the attraction of an afterlife, and the essentialist desire that all things must have a purpose, but being an attractive idea does not give it validity. The fact that I think this way means that to me it is all the more important to live life to the full and to experience as many wonders as I can in this short life of mine. It also means that I and only I am responsible for my actions.

People must be allowed to believe or more correctly 'have faith' in what they choose to be true for themselves but, The moment that a religious sect calls for a holy war against another, or teachers of science start denying scientific fact over religious literature, things have gone too far and 'religion' or 'God' can now be seen as harmful to humanity in general, and therefore should be relegated to its proper place - great literature and mytholgical legend.