In most (I think) states felons can vote once their sentences (including parole/probation/supervision/etc are completed.

Edit: I found a chart explaining this -
http://felonvoting.procon.org/viewre...resourceID=286

Upon examining the issue, I think I might agree with you in that CERTAIN felons should have gun rights restored, but I believe there should be special restrictions on it (psychological evaluations, permits, etc). And VIOLENT felons, or any who have ever used a gun in the commission of a crime, should never be allowed weapons IMO.

I think the rights you lose/gain back for being a felon depend on state some states they take your right to vote for life others once you have done your time you get it back. I suppose they may do the same in some states when it comes to firearms. But really some seem to think that you some how cant defend yourself by other means not all bad people use guns you can f..... someone up with your bare hands if you need to even if they have a weapon look up some of the military martial arts out there now.(I feel any man who cant defend himself just with his hands is a sad excuse for a man) you should be able to defend yourself without a gun. In fact I think personaly many people get a false feeling of securtiy from owning a gun.

Don't get old or have health issues then because you might find yourself becoming that which you do not respect. I mean don't you think it's a bit much to ask an octogenarian to engage in fisticuffs?

steelhead... i think thats the dumbest thing i have ever heard. (while i do understand your underlying point - it comes across as "macho")

if a man comes into your house with a colt .45 and your standing there in your sponge bob square pants PJs ...

... what the hell are you going to do? fist fight him?

no - he is going to put your brains all over the wall brother!

"never bring a knife to a gun fight." is a quote that comes to mind.

"I feel any man who cant defend himself just with his hands is a sad excuse for a man."

I vote for change a flat tyre. Bl**dy American English spelling! :rotfl:

Buddahaid

One word: Waco

Sure, they lost a few guys but… the government has no problem rolling out the tanks. They shouldn’t (Posse Comitatus and all that) but still…

Video

There is a very good chance that you could have a gun right on your dresser fully loaded(not very smart for saftey) and you could be sound asleep someone be beside you with an M1911 .45 and blow your head off. Unless you are going to sit there where ever you are with a fully loaded gun in your hand all the time you cant 100% protect yourself with a gun.

There is this general feeling out there that there are millions of evil doers waiting to shot you with a gun and that means that you must have a gun as well. to be honest I am not nor have I even been very worried about anyone ever trying to harm me(apart from the time I was in Iraq)I own guns mainly because I have an interest in the engineering of them.I honestly dont feel any safer with a gun. It seems like people think of a gun a an insurence policy that nothing bad will ever happen to you. And here is something many dont even think of what if the person who is going to attack you with a gun is a better and faster shot than you? Guess what then you die. Id say if a guy comes into my house first off he is going to have to deal with my German Sheppard Dasha(which he probably wont survie) then if I was too far away form my gun locker and had no time I would lay in ambush and disarm the man or at(I had a Green Berret show me some stuff once trust me it works there are ways to kill man by hand no matter what he has for a weapon and that is not being macho that is using your brains and employing the most effective weapon on earth the human body.)If the guy killed me well then I would say that god decided that my time was up nothing you can do about that when you are called you are called you could have all the guns in the world not gonna change it.But I not going to worry about it viloent crimes are actualy pretty rare. You are infinately more likely to die in a car accident than you are by someone with a gun shooting you.And I dont waste my time fearing things I choose to enjoy my life.The thing with the media is if it bleeds it leads and viloent crimes are better for ratings. More people die in one year in car accidents than service members died in the 10 or so years that we where in Vietnam.

And it is Stealhead not Steelhead I meant for it to be ae inplace of ee. You also are not my brother(kin wise or socialy).And I dont wear Sponge Bob PJ's either. I prefer GI Joe PJ's my wife thinks they are sexy.:yeah: And I bring my brain to any fight you will need that more than any form of weapon the weapon is useless without your brain.And by the way you describe the M1911 .45 situation no matter what your ****ed if you are standing face to face and he simply shots you. But you seem to fail to think that if the man gets close enough you have a chance to take the weapon this has happened many times take a look at those cameras at gas stations if you dont belive me and those people often had no hand to hand training. You I guess would say oh crap evil doer is it ok if I go get my gun it is in by bedroom? Or even if you had it in reach you must still grab,pull the slide, and flick the saftey(assuming it is an automatic) so he still has the drop on you.Myself even with no gun at the very least my actions would buy time for my wife and daughter to get away or at the least hide in the room where the gun locker is and the M1911 .45 man even if he kills me he aint getting in that door with out a double tap to the torso and head.But it would be smarter to get away from the house not stay in it.

I dont know why people use these stupid what ifs anyway.Nothing goes according to plan so if someone just owns guns and thinks that will make them safe they are wrong. Soliders have firearms all the time yet they still die in battle I rest my case.:nope:

I really should have sadi your not much of a human if you cant defend yourself hand to hand somewhat. there was no underlying point to that satement. Apperantly it shone a light on your faith in the mighty gun and exposed an underlying truth and that hurt you.Sorry I suggest you take some Krav Maga classes this stuff was designed for one purpose for Isreali special forces soliders to kill in hand to hand combat a foe using any wepaon the **** is bad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDKTFtcfopU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYq8E...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07jnqD8wvyE&feature=fvw
some unskilled people:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdwDn...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-_YN...eature=related
Look the dip**** robbers gun failed that could with any gun no matter how well kept.

I was with that up until the soldiers in battle part. That is a bit different. However, I do agree in general. The three firearms I own are all pretty old pieces of history, but I do keep two loaded magazines with the 1919 M1911 just in case it may help. It resides unloaded and locked up in the basement, and would be of no value in a home invasion, but like you said, nothing really goes as planned.

Buddahaid

Stealhead, your premises are highly flawed. Starting with this:In this example you're relying on a person with a RANGED weapon to get within hand-to-hand range. Yes, I could have a gun on my dresser that a criminal could take. Or, I could have a gun in my nightstand next to my bed that, odds are, the invader won't find before I grab and unlock it.

No one is implying that simply owning guns is what would make them safe, so it is pointless for you to argue that idea. The fact is that it is idiotic to make the statement that a man who can't defend themselves with their hands isn't a man - plain lunacy, pure and simple. Defend themselves against what? What if the invader is a better fighter than the defender? To emphasize, that statement is pure wannabe macho BS.

How about this scenario - you hear an armed man breaking into your home. You grab your gun and get the drop on HIM. Would you be able to do that with your bare hands?

Unlikely, no matter how macho you think it sounds to say otherwise.

There's a reason that police are armed...

but studies overwhelmingly show...

... soldiers that have rifles are much more effective than the soldiers that dont.

:haha:

my closing argument is now complete


so, Jury? whats the verdict?

send soldiers into war with rifles... or.... without rifles?

all im saying is, if my door opens at night, my alarm system goes off (or the large bells attached to all the door nobs ring) the intruder WILL be greeted by the business end of a firearm from about 10 paces while my wife calls the police.

movement in any direction except out the door from whence you entered will result in numerous nickle sized bleeding holes suddenly appearing in your torso.

no requests, no demands, no discussion, just loud reports followed by the sound of the burglar's lifeless body falling onto the tile floor.

sorry dude... i have been a victim of violent crime, and you cannot ever convince me to bring Rosie Palm to a gun fight.

its just not going to happen.

.... in some countries.

I can see the logic behind owning a gun, and I understand why some people feel safer with it.

I personally think a gun is too powerful for me. I don't trust myself enough to own something with that kind of lethal force. I fear that if I had a gun next to my bed I'd be more likely to shoot a loved one than an intruder, either out of panic or though an accidental shot. I know that gun owners are supposed to go through training to ensure that neither of those happen, but when I've just been woken up by a strange noise, my head is a bit groggy, and I'm terrified, I'm not sure I'd be able to trust myself to remember all the training. That would be a very bad time for me to have lethal force in my hands.

But that's just my personal case. I can see how guns make sense for some people, I just don't happen to be one of those people.

See you keep patronizing me I dont care what you think really.And I doubt that you have really been a violent crime victim you are just saying that to add creabilty to your view. If this was such an important part of your view you would have mentioned it as an example in your first post.You sound kind of paranoid to be honest.I was never trying to convince anyone of anything but that is funny that you feel that way it shows a lack of confidence in your self and your skills.Though it basicly shows that you dont like what I had to say.But I said it didnt I?

You are very "smart" if you think I was implying that soliders should not carry weapons they have good reason to. My point was the simple fact that they have a weapon does not insure that they will not be killed learn to read.I am saying that a viloent person could attack and have a gun pointed at you before you can get to your gun or they may hit you with bullets before you hit them and if that happens your gun has done nothing for you.Sometimes both the attacker and the victim have both shot eachother and both died in that case they both failed in their goal the attacker did not get what they wanted and the defender failed thier goal which was not to die.:nope:

You can keep talking I was not trying convince you of anything so you honestly are wasting your time. What i said is there can easily be a time when Roise Palm is you ronly weapon and if you dont know how to use it well that is your lose.:yeah:



And saying that you will blow the guy away with a gun is not macho? Get lost that is the thing about the general topicc people want to pervert a valid point into something it was not.
You are failing to take into account that in 90% of violent crimes the gun holder has to get close enough to rob the person or do what ever else they plan on doing.You guys saying that my statement that you should be prepared to defend yourself with just your hands is stupid is stupid. It is foolish to say that you must rely on a gun to protect yourself when there are times when a gun wont be at hand for you to use.A person who is truly prepared to defend oneself should be able to by any means aviable even is it is thier hands hell you need your hands to use the damn gun if you had one clue darts.

Keep going "dudes" this is so fun just to see you guys go off it is better the network TV.
At least some people see what I am saying like Buddahaid and at August back in the 1980s where I live an 85 year old woman got held up by a man with a gun she took the gun from him in a struggle and broke the mans arm have a little more faith in the human body it can do amazing things.the whole
(I feel any man who cant defend himself just with his hands is a sad excuse for a man) was supposed to a bit sarcastic.I am just saying you should be able to defend yourself with anything aviable and you could have any weapon and the attacker could still harm or kill you.

Uh... What training are you referring to? I'm in lefty pansy California* and the only training needed to buy a gun is money. Or in the case of a handgun, money and a handgun safety certificate, which is about as hard as getting a driver's license (choose the safest sounding answer and show you can load and unload).

Buddahaid

*Only valid in major metropolitan areas. Some restrictions apply.

That's completely fair, and I like your perspective and honest assessment of your capabilities.

Where did you get this statistic? Me thinks you pulled it from your behind... :yeah:Umm, no one is disputing that. We are taking issue with this silly statement you made:This statement is completely unqualified as it does not address what the man would be defending themself against. Secondly, you've backtracked on yourself with this statement:So considering the failure of a "man" to defend himself with his hands against someone who just shoots them, does that make him not a man?

The fact that you keep attempting to present the silly argument that most armed confrontations one should be able to defend themselves with their hands shows that you have little understanding of the issue and are really just posturing (unimpressively, I might add).

And, for any of you younger folks out there that may be reading this, if someone gets the drop on you with a gun, don't do what Stealhead suggests. That's a good way to get yourself killed, stupidly.