SUBSIM Radio Room Forums - US Needs a leader like Kennedy

SUBSIM Radio Room Forums (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/index.php)

- General Topics (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=175)

- - US Needs a leader like Kennedy (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=99446)

I think Fred just recognizes that this is an Internet forum, not the Grand Hall of Olympian Philosphers. Longer is not always better. If a man cannot express himself succinctly, then he needs help organizing his thoughts. Or he likes to hear himself talk :) (something I find myself guilty of at times). I understand what you mean, Sky, when you say "lacking willingness or ability of many people to reflect over the complexity of things". I think each of us could research these topics for days, pour out numerous quotes and historic references, rebut each other point by point, work in references to Tolstoy, Churchill, Saladin, and obscure Chinese Taoists, .... but "there is one fact no one will ever challenge: The earth still spins on its axis every 24 hours, and work and sleep own most of them. Thus we may posit an iron law of the universe: You can do whatever it is you choose to do with your few free hours, or you can spend them" online, arguing in an internet forum. :dead: I have two jobs, three kids, and one g/f who is too hot to ignore... so, yeah, I prefer to-the-point posts, myself. Maybe I'm one of those steroetype Americans who is too scatterbrained to focus on complex issues... give loud noises and shiny colors!

Sky, I'll give your post a respectful answer later tonight when I have time. But if my g/f calls, don't expect to hear from me!

No problem, Neal, I do not feel like being deathlocked with you in anything. You make me curious about your gf, though :lol:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Quote:

It shall be the policy of this nation to regard any nuclear missile launched from Cuba against any nation in the Western Hemisphere as an attack by the Soviet Union on the United States, requiring a full retaliatory response upon the Soviet Union .
-- President John F. Kennedy,
Oct. 22, 1962

Now that's deterrence.
Kennedy was pledging that if any nuke was launched from Cuba, the United States would not even bother with Cuba but would go directly to the source and bring the apocalypse to Russia with a massive nuclear attack.

The remarkable thing about this kind of threat is that in 1962 it was very credible. Indeed, its credibility kept the peace throughout a half-century of the Cold War.

Excellent article by Krauthammer: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/12/AR2006101201668_pf.html

Bush has drawn several red lines with Iran and NK, but has failed to make them stick. Someday, in the near future, when the first terrorist A-bomb destroys Washington, or Copenhagen, or the Hague, or London, or Berlin, or Rome, or Paris... people will look back and see this time as the decisive point where the Western world had the opportunity to act and stop nuclear proliferation, but did not have the will. Bush will be a key figure of blame, but most of Europe and half of America should share the blame for holding him back.

Not every body thinks the guy is excelent, or better just excelent for the neo-cons..

Quote:

Krauthammer argues that the US has two options – the military option or doing nothing – a classic false dilemma

http://www.villagemagazine.ie/articl...ud=36&aid=3146

Quote:

http://www.informationliberation.com...rauthammer.jpg Charles Krauthammer, guiding light of the neocon faction, predicts shock and awe waged against Iran in his latest op-ed in the CIA’s favorite newspaper, the Washington Post.

First, Krauthammer lays out the cost of this action—astronomical gas prices, precipitating a vicious recession, attacks on occupation forces and the installed government in Iraq. Next, he basically tells us all of this is necessary because “there is the larger danger of permitting nuclear weapons to be acquired by religious fanatics seized with an eschatological belief in the imminent apocalypse and in their own divine duty to hasten the End of Days.” Deterrence is impossible, Krauthammer explains, because Iran revels in a “millenarian fanaticism glorying in a cult of death,” in other words, there will be no stopping these suicidal Muslims, determined to wipe both Israel and the Great Satan, the United States, off the map.

Or, to paraphrase Clinton’s Iron Maiden, Madeleine Albright, economically destroying America, to say nothing of killing hundreds of thousands of Iranians, is “a very hard choice, but the price … is worth it.”

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=16145

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMike

ASWnut101,
Are you familiar with the B57? I worked on that puppy many years ago...

Yours, Mike

Actually i havent! PM me with pics and description and that kind of stuff!:up:

Placing a naval blockade around a country is an ACT of WAR!. If we try to put a naval blockade around the Korean Pen it won't work and it will be seen by North Korea and China as a act of war by the USA on North Korea.

We got the Japanese to attack Pearl when we cut of their oil supplies. The Japanese had no choice but to go to war with the US when we and Britain cut of their oil supply to Southeast asia. Japan being an island nation would have died a slow death without oil from Indonesia. By attacking Pearl they hoped to be able to put the USA off for a while so that they could get the oil they needed to survive. Our leaders at that time knew that Japan would be desperate and start a war if we tried to cut off their oil supply.

Korea will see it the same way. But since most of N. Korea's supplies comes through the Chinese we won't succeed in a naval blockade of N Korea anyway.

Bush has our troops all tied up in Iraq. There is no way we can sustain another major ground war at this time without pulling troops out of Iraq. And or start a draft.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredbass

Quote:

Originally Posted by madDdog67

This whole thing is gonna get messy if the UN resolution that gets passed (most likely tomorrow) includes inpections of ships, and we actually try to enforce 'em.

I doubt it.

It depends on how mentally stable Kim Jong-Il is. His government has stated this would be an act of war. Is Kim crazy enough to launch attacks on the South? Does China actually have any control over Kim and his government?

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredbass

Skybird: Try to limit your thoughts to just a few paragraphs at a time then maybe I'll pay more attention to what your attempting to put forth.

I second that! I didn't bother reading anything once I looked at the length. Precise clear thoughts is all that is need to get a point across, not a novel!!!

-S

Quote:

Originally Posted by moose1am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredbass

Quote:

Originally Posted by madDdog67

This whole thing is gonna get messy if the UN resolution that gets passed (most likely tomorrow) includes inpections of ships, and we actually try to enforce 'em.

I doubt it.

Hold on one minute, but are you suggesting the US and S Korea is not at war already with N Korea? We have been since the 1950's. Only a formal ceasefire exists, nothing more. We are at war with N Korea still to this day. And end of hostilities was never put in place!!!

-S

Quote:

Originally Posted by moose1am

We got the Japanese to attack Pearl when we cut of their oil supplies. The Japanese had no choice but to go to war with the US when we and Britain cut of their oil supply to Southeast asia. Japan being an island nation would have died a slow death without oil from Indonesia.

Woah, you are mistaken. The US and Britain did not blockade Japan, they instituted an embargo. That is a completely different thing and just refusing to sell something to a nation is not an act of war. If it were OPECs oil embargo in 1973 would have also been an act of war.

As I see it Churchill and FDR had little choice in the matter. No way could they continue selling oil to Japan while it was engaged in a war of genocide against China.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredbass

Skybird: Try to limit your thoughts to just a few paragraphs at a time then maybe I'll pay more attention to what your attempting to put forth.

I'm glad someone said that.:up:

Check out the real situation
Nation fight against nation,
Where did it all begin,
When will it end.
Well it seems like the only solution is a total destruction.

Bob Marley - Real Situation.

Armaggenddon - fire shall rein from the sky. - Bible

Whats the meaning of this, Nuclear war?

Edit:sorry went right of topic there. :lol: The Rum has been put away! :arrgh!:

Rosy outlook.

Reminds me of the new tv show Jericho, where a nuclear war against the US has taken place. I bet a lot of foreigners were cheered by that idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwi_2005

Or was it the....:|\\

:D nice post, shakespeare!:cool: