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-   -   Canada considers canning diesels, buying nukes (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=189094)

Karle94 10-29-11 10:35 AM

To those of you that think the US won`t share technology. Keep in mind that British nukes uses American techology. The first British nuclear sub, the HMS Dreadnought had the reactor that the Skipjack used. At that time the most sophisticated piece of technology in existense. Everything from there are developed from what the Americans gave the British.

CaptainHaplo 10-29-11 12:28 PM

Our relationship with the UK is one thing - our relationship with our northern neighbors is entirely different.

While we share some things with them - nuke tech on subs isn't going to be one in the forseeable future.

Krauter 10-29-11 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo (Post 1776404)

Its important to remember WHY Canada went with the Upholders. Why it looks at diesels to start with. It doesn't have the surface navy to project power in "blue water" - its navy is primarily a brown water force. Its sub needs are defensive in nature. A nuke doesn't fit that strategy.

It is also important to remember when Canada went with the Upholders. In this day and age, the Canadian government is increasingly looking northwards for operations under the ice, something diesels are not very geared towards.

magicstix 10-29-11 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karle94 (Post 1776418)
To those of you that think the US won`t share technology. Keep in mind that British nukes uses American techology. The first British nuclear sub, the HMS Dreadnought had the reactor that the Skipjack used. At that time the most sophisticated piece of technology in existense. Everything from there are developed from what the Americans gave the British.

Sharing reactor designs with the *only* country we've ever shared nuclear weapons designs with is one thing, giving an entire SSN to Canada is something else entirely.

Even our full-up SSN designs aren't shared with the UK. To be honest, I'm even surprised we're sharing our sonar processing systems with the Aussies.

Madox58 10-29-11 02:58 PM

Yep. First thing I see if We share with those Savages Up North?
They will over run us with... with... Well, I come up empty!!
:hmmm:
Seems they are pretty good neighbors unlike the neighbor to the South!
:yep:
Sure We get some illegal people from Canada.
But I can not recall seeing them doing yard work or picking crops.
:hmmm:

I also don't remember them DEMANDING We give them free Citizenship just because they crossed the border illegally.

Jimbuna 10-29-11 04:03 PM

Reading these responses leads me to believe the only country if any to sell the Canadians a nuke may well be the UK...and an old one at that.

I also think the eventual outcome will be the reality that they are too expensive, especially during these times of economic austerity.

TLAM Strike 10-29-11 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo (Post 1776452)
Our relationship with the UK is one thing - our relationship with our northern neighbors is entirely different.

There was a time when American nuclear weapons armed Canadian interceptors and anti-submarine aircraft. :03:

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo (Post 1776404)
Its important to remember WHY Canada went with the Upholders. Why it looks at diesels to start with. It doesn't have the surface navy to project power in "blue water" - its navy is primarily a brown water force. Its sub needs are defensive in nature. A nuke doesn't fit that strategy.

Canada doesn't have a blue water navy? They have two Protecteur class AORs, three destroyers and twelve frigates. Their navy routinely operates with USN CSGs. :know:

Randomizer 10-29-11 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna (Post 1776553)
Reading these responses leads me to believe the only country if any to sell the Canadians a nuke may well be the UK...and an old one at that.

I also think the eventual outcome will be the reality that they are too expensive, especially during these times of economic austerity.

The existence of US reactor technology in the Trafalgar's was the reason the French Rubis class was the front-runner in the 1985 nuclear submarine acquisition project.

The US State Department does not want Canada to have under ice operational capabilities since they claim the Northwest Passage as an international waterway and RCN nuke boats would allow the exercise of Canadian sovereignty throughout the Arctic archipelago year-round. This isn't whacko paranoia, the issues were public knowledge and debated openly in Parliament (and Congress IIRC) during the latter parts of the Reagan presidency until Canada terminated the SSN project. There is no reason to think that the US position has softened over time, quite the opposite probably.

The French boats came with less technological baggage but the Navy would have preferred modified Trafalgar's, at least according to the scuttlebutt at the time.

Skybird 10-29-11 06:32 PM

In 2009, I think, I read news that Brazil was to buy a nuclear sub. From France.

The French have 6 Rubis, but plan to decommision them in favour of their new nuclear submarine class, the Barracuda, which should enter service by 2017.

I imagine the French are eager to sell their boats to Canada, too.

And that is better than if they sell them to Egypt, Libya or Saudi Arabia to buy these regime's sympathies. :88)

Skybird 10-29-11 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike (Post 1776622)
Canada doesn't have a blue water navy? They have two Protecteur class AORs, three destroyers and twelve frigates. Their navy routinely operates with USN CSGs. :know:

Focus of their navy is trying to comply with the need of defending that hell of a coast of theirs, with all those islands and fjords. So I think its fair to say they may have a navy that can set a small - a very small! - ammount of units into far away blue water operations, but their focus still is surveillance of their northern island labyrinth, and extenidng operations to under the Northern ice now.

This: http://www.navy.forces.gc.ca/marpac/...ry=24&title=20
does not give me the impression of a navy with a focus on far away blue water operations. To me it looks very very much like coastal defence as a focus. Also, the size of their supply fleet (one Protecteur for the Pacific coast, says the link) also speaks volumes.

TLAM Strike 10-29-11 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird (Post 1776650)
Focus of their navy is trying to comply with the need of defending that hell of a coast of theirs, with all those islands and fjords. So I think its fair to say they may have a navy that can set a small - a very small! - ammount of units into far away blue water operations, but their focus still is surveillance of their northern island labyrinth, and extenidng operations to under the Northern ice now.

This: http://www.navy.forces.gc.ca/marpac/...ry=24&title=20
does not give me the impression of a navy with a focus on far away blue water operations. To me it looks very very much like coastal defence as a focus. Also, the size of their supply fleet (one Protecteur for the Pacific coast, says the link) also speaks volumes.

They have 12 Kingston class and 8 Orca class patrol boats for coastal duties. But a lot of their coast is iced over most of the year. The Arctic patrols are done by the Canadian Coast Guard's six icebreakers.

The Halifax class frigates are specifically designed for operations in the North Atlantic (mainly convoy duty), hence the bear trap helo retreating system.

Krauter 10-29-11 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike (Post 1776622)
There was a time when American nuclear weapons armed Canadian interceptors and anti-submarine aircraft. :03:

Aye but the US also armed the French, the Dutch and most of NATO also if I'm not mistaken :hmmm:


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