The same goes for us over here Penguin. Also a lot of unskilled and low-education immigrants came here in the 60's / 70's. But at least they are legal... There's more of a cultural problem than an economical. Not that that problem is smaller, it's just different. One advantage of them being legal, is at least they pay taxes and they have registered places of residence.

Well spoken and very true, but the fact of the matter is; we demand low prices. And we were -at the time- all shortsighted; the governments, the companies, but us consumers as well.
Besides, had those immigrants not come here back then, both our countries would have lost a lot of export revenues. Without those immigrants, we couldn't have kept competitive prices. We should however have foreseen these problems (yeah well easy in hindsight, I know), and maybe only give them temporary visas.

My point is -to get more back on topic- how will it help you throwing them in jail? That'll only cost you that much more. Have them returned to their countries. Yeah, perhaps they'll keep trying to get back, but the time they spend in their own country doesn't cost the US taxpayers money to feed them while they're in a US jail. Plus, do you have any idea how much time, effort and money it takes to find an illegal, find out if someone is illegal, than prosecute them? I don't, but I bet it's a hefty sum.

The ideal solution would imo be to really close up the borders, and come down hard on companies that employ illegal immigrants. The second part isn't that hard. The first part however... well you guys know more about that than I do. Clearly, it's very difficult. Complex problem this one :hmmm:

Great find.

Section 1326 deals with punishment for aliens who have already been deported or have had deportation orders and are found in the country.


So if an alien has been caught once and given a deportation order and violates that order, he or she can be charged with a criminal act.


However, US v. Cupa-Guillen, 34 F. 3d 860 (1994) seems to refute that. I think I am going to read up on that case. Looks interesting.

Most interesting find. Thanks for posting it. :salute:

Trust lawyers to screw up what should be a straight forward thing. If someone is in this country illegally we should be able to boot them out when we catch them.

Very few things are straightforward when it comes to law.

WTF!
 

Go to Mexico! And scream OUT I"m not Mexican I'm an illegal from another country! They'll throw your butt in the CAN and deport your butt. But it seem's everybody can come to the U.S.A. and demand rights without being a Citizen. Go demand rights in any other Country in the world and you'll see what will happen to you! This Country United States is one who babies illegals. We need to deport to make space! The thing is politicians are to damn scared to stand up say what's in theirs hearts. And don't get me wrong I'm half Hispanic. And mankind needs to control their POPULATION less screwing and more resources will provide a richer society. BUT NO POLITICIAN HAS THE BALLS TO SAY TO THE PUBLIC 2 CHILDREN PER COUPLE AND DON'T IMPREGNATE A WOMAN IF YOU DON'T HAVE INCOME TO SUPPORT!. Yeah that's right people will be hating! But I'm right in the money!.

We dont need cheap labor from illegals. there are PLENTY of teenagers who need money to pay for the INTENSE increase of tuition.

Illegals are sucking this country. In a monetary sense, they are a parasite. They are PLENTY of illegals getting free health care, free taxes, fake drivers licenses, and some getting FREE tuition.

And BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS is SHIPPED BACK TO MEXICO AND OTHER COUNTRIES. The mexican government and other latin countries are basically teaching illegals how to get passed our borders and live a free life here so they can send back billions of dollars to their governments. Resorts even advertise labor vacations so they can have a baby here while their pregnant and get a free ticket to citizenship.


They need to GO. RIGHT now. No dam amnesty. let our teenagers get the jobs so they can pay for their tuition. Let american CITIZENS get the jobs so they can drive the unemployment down again.

I admire why there here. They want a piece of the american dream too. Their countries are poverty stricken. It sucks to live there. But dragging this country down with them is not acceptable and they need to GO.

Its not like any other country in the world allows anywhere NEAR the amnesty we do on a daily basis. Remember those hikers? No amnesty for them. The mexican government wont give any mercy to illegals living there.

so why should we not do the same? because our politicians are bought and paid for and are afraid of being called racists because the illegals have nothing to fall back on. NO argument. so they pull out the race card and all goes well. look how arizona got harrassed because it was TIRED of the ridiculous illegal immigration problem.

Just try to find one. I literally could not pay any of the teenagers in my neighbourhood to mow my lawn. I was offering up to $50.00 to mow what grass I have left on my puny 1/3 acre lot (House takes up about 2/3rds of that). No interest.


Perhaps it is different where you live, but in North Virginia, teenagers don't do manual labour. :nope: The closest they will ever get is working the back warehouse at Safeway and even then the turn-over at the Safeway where I live is measured in weeks.

I am just not buying the myth that undocumented aliens are taking jobs away from good ole Americans. I just don't see Americans, these days, doing that sort of work.

And as an American, I really don't want to pay the salaries that Americans would expect for manual labour.

My solution has always been to make it easier for them to become citizens. Anyone who wants to come to my country and work hard, I am welcoming them with open arms.

$50 !?
holy crap, what the hell is wrong with these kids?
i would have jumped at the chance to earn $50 that easily

For $50.00 I would mow my neighbours lawn!! And I hate mowing lawns, but I like $50.00 more. :yep:

And just try to get any American Teenager to shovel snow! It is like you are asking them to give up a kidney and not get an Ipod2.

Have you ever spent time in an agricultural field? Do you know what's involved in doing that sort of work? I wouldn't wish that torture on my children.

Quote:

from January to June, California farmers posted ads for 1,160 farmworker positions open to U.S. citizens and legal residents. But only 233 people in those categories applied after learning of the jobs through unemployment offices in California, Texas, Nevada and Arizona. One grower brought on 36. No one else hired any.

http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2010/0...want-farm-work

Doesn't sound like kids, or anyone else for that matter, are lining up for illegal immigrant jobs.

Link please? Since having a baby on U.S. soil is no insurance against deportation, I'd love to see these advertisements. A child born in the U.S. to non-citizen parents has to be 21 before they can sponsor citizenship for the parents, AND the parent has to show that they have not been in the country illegally for more than a year. That ticket to citizenship isn't as free as you make it out to be.

That's because most laws are made by lawyers for other lawyers. Job security.

really? Platupus, if i lived in Virginia i wouldve GLADLY mowed your lawn for 50$. Maybe kids these days are getting a little too much money from allowances from doing incredibly simple chores, hence not needing to do much real labor.

Im honestly kind of shocked no one took you up on the offer. Even here in some of the more upper middle class and rich parts of california, all i heard from my classmates back in high school were "i wish i had a job SO badly". Because there are few who are fortunate enough to have rich parents. Teenagers want to do what THEY want to do. So they need a car, money, phones, laptops ect.

And here in college, everybody NEEDS a job because their parents CANNOT afford 20k a semester to go to a decent college. They have to take out loans. Some live off campus. Im at CSU Maritime. They have a program where you work on your degree like any regular student, but also attend weekend Navy ROP training. By the end of your 4 years, youll graduate straight into the Navy. Ive asked around and many instructors who teach there graduated from it, and those who took the Navy ROP said that their college tuition was paid off. Plus you get a monthly sum of a couple hundred bucks.'

But thats how i try to cope. Teens i know all need jobs to go to college. Many of them cant find any. All of the jobs that businesses are willing to hire for have been filled. So those who cant find any will be spending ALOT of time paying off ridiculously large student loans.


And yes, actually, they do advertise labor vacations. The illegal immigrant family with multiple children born here will almost assuredly NOT be deported.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/debate-birt...ry?id=11322850

Theres your link.

Platapus,

Your logic is flawed, because to enter the country legally:

Q: What Documents Must You Present?A: A foreign national entering the U.S. is required to present a passport and valid visa issued by a U.S. Consular Official unless they are a citizen of a country eligible for the Visa Waiver Program, a lawful permanent resident of the U.S., or a citizen of Canada.

Source: http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/id...to_the_u_s.xml


Any visa issued is recorded - and thus can be demonstrated to exist - or in the case above - to not exist. A simple records check - did Mr. Juan Gonzales get issues a visa? Yes or no? US Consul's do not just hand out these documents without there being a paper trail. After all, if they didn't have a paper trail, they couldn't look up someone's immigration status, now could they?

Simple - you cannot BE present legally in a location if you did not gain entry to that location in a legal manner.

Lets say you put up no trespassing signs in your yard all around your house. On day, you go to the store and when you get back, you enter your home to find me sitting at your table, drinking and eating stuff from your fridge. By your logic - if you don't have no trespassing signs posted in every room in your house, I could LEGALLY be in any rooms that don't have the sign - as long as I am not caught sneaking into it! Maybe I flew down the chimney - or if thats illegal - maybe I teleported in or used a star trek transporter. After all - my mere presence does not - using your logic - prove any illegal action actually occured. My presence does not show any violation of the trespass borders you posted.

Now if your ok with that, fine. But I assure you - most of the people who live in a free society are not. Seriously - I know your smarter than this though.

It's not his logic. Its the logic of the courts. Read U.S. vs Cupa-Guillen, as was already linked in this thread. Mere presence is not actus reus in the eyes of the law, as illogical as it sounds. To try and make some sense out of it, the court compares it to being a drug addict. If someone's a heroin addict, can you bust them for possession of heroin? I mean they had to have possessed it at some point in order to become addicted. The law says no, you can't.

Thank you, I appreciate the complement, but honestly my post is more a factor of my experience in legal research than in intelligence. But, I am afraid that it is your logic that is flawed. If you go back to my post, I explained that the prosecutor needs to prove all the elements of the crime, there can be no assumptions nor presumptions.

Yes it is a common sense inference that if a person did not enter legally, they can't be present legally. However, that is not how the law works. The law does not work on common sense inferences, but on proving the elements of the crime as listed in the law. That and the tenet that the prosecutor has to prove guilt, the defendant does not have to prove non-guilt.

The problem is that the way the Title 8 laws are written, it is difficult, not impossible, to prove that a person is in the country illegally, unless they confess, or in the case of Section 1325 they are caught on the boarder.

This is why prosecutors like to find other charges that are easier to prove (drugs, weapons, tax-evasion, trafficking, etc.) to criminally deport people or go through the non-criminal administrative hearing route which is a lot easier and therefore the preferred way of handling this issue.

Now, there is a poser: How would anyone of us reword or make up a new law that would make it easier to prosecute?

Remember that prosecutor has to prove ALL elements and that the prosecutor has to prove guilt.

That should be an interesting discussion. :yep: