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-   Silent Hunter 4: Wolves of the Pacific (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=202)
-   -   Worried about SH4(dev-team) (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=115813)

TDK1044 05-31-07 01:25 PM
I'm running the latest TM mod, and the AI is very attentive to my sub.

TriskettheKid 05-31-07 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mookiemookie
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriskettheKid
Of all the things that bug me about SH4, convoy AI, like with JC, does not rank all that high.
Without AI there is no "game".
I understand that. But I see nothing wrong with the Convoy AI, or even the Taskforce AI.

As such, the very minor problems I've had with it (like the one I mentioned) relegate it to a point where it is just not that big a deal. I'd much rather see other things fixed, first.

mookiemookie 05-31-07 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriskettheKid
Quote:
Originally Posted by mookiemookie
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriskettheKid
Of all the things that bug me about SH4, convoy AI, like with JC, does not rank all that high.
Without AI there is no "game".
I understand that. But I see nothing wrong with the Convoy AI, or even the Taskforce AI.

As such, the very minor problems I've had with it (like the one I mentioned) relegate it to a point where it is just not that big a deal. I'd much rather see other things fixed, first.
Convoy problems stem from the convoy not choosing a new leader when the current one is sunk or incapacitated. They all stop. That's not something a modder can fix. That is a gameplay issue and one I'd rather see fixed a heck of a lot more than having torpedo descriptions added to the game. You can always crack a book or visit valoratsea.com for those sort of things.

TheSatyr 05-31-07 02:04 PM
For those who complain about convoys coming to a complete stop once a ship is attacked,well that's just what happened to the USS Barb during an attack on a convoy.

The Barb had torpedoed a few ships,the convoy came to a complete stop,2 escorts went back to stand by one of the torpedoed ships and the rest of the escorts just milled around doing nothing.

Sound familiar?

mookiemookie 05-31-07 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSatyr
For those who complain about convoys coming to a complete stop once a ship is attacked,well that's just what happened to the USS Barb during an attack on a convoy.

The Barb had torpedoed a few ships,the convoy came to a complete stop,2 escorts went back to stand by one of the torpedoed ships and the rest of the escorts just milled around doing nothing.

Sound familiar?
How many convoys didn't do this? I'll wager there were plenty more instances where the convoy started making big course changes and put on flank speed.

I find it very hard to believe that Japanese merchant doctrine was to order an all stop when attacked by submarine.

kikn79 05-31-07 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriskettheKid
In fact, my biggest priority is the fact that taking out a ship's rudder doesn't seem to do much at all. I can't tell you how many times I've killed the engines of a BB, or a cargo vessel, only to have it steam along at 3-4 knots....even when the screws stop turning.

I attacked a large TF and missed one of the light cruisers due to it zigging away. By unbelievable luck, one of the heavy cruisers ahead of it zagged back and it hit it in the stern. Apparently, I took out it's rudder as it never changed course or speed again. While the rest of the group continued to zig zag on their regular course, this CA cut through the other 2 lines of ships and continued on it's merry way. I should have watched it until it ran aground some where, but I sent it down to the bottom with another couple of fish.

I thought it was pretty interesting, though, none the less.

Chuck

heartc 06-01-07 12:11 AM
Mookiemookie is totally right.

And the convoy coming to a stop / 1 knots speed doesn't only happen when the "group leader" is taken out, but after *any* ship has been torpedoed. It happens to me every single time, I don't think I every single time happened to take out the "group leader". I torpedoed differently positioned ships in those encounters, too.

This group leader thing comes up from people who do not really understand the convoy bug but make the connection with that dev post where they came up with a list of things to fix. There was something in there with the group not choosing a new leader after the initial one is taken out - but if the devs or anyone thinks that this is indeed the problem with the convoys coming to a stop, then they are wrong, and the bug will still remain in 1.3. Great.

McBeck 06-01-07 02:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uber Gruber
I agree a lot of the issues are subtle and one could excuse a QA team of not noticing some of these. However, I personally can't excuse a QA team not noticing the convoy AI behaviour, neither the escort AI behaviour when your sub is detected.

Devs normally have an input into QA via QA project lead, this is normal as QA always needs help to define test cases - which is understandable.

Your assumption seems to be that QA were unaware of these issues and hence Ubi were unaware of these issues and thats effectively why they decided to guage users oppinion by posting a topic in the Ubi forum asking us to justify a patch.

Personally, if this was the case, I would consider Ubi's business processes as being laughable and would certainly not outsource any work to them.

The whole notion flys in the face of "Quality Assurance".
You asume that the testcases covered the convoy AI aspect - what if a simple mistake was made and it was overlooked? I agree with JCC, that testing a simulation the includes an AI is very complex to say the least. Thats maybe why we have seen erros in them for the past 3 releases of Silent Hunter.

McBeck 06-01-07 02:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartc
Mookiemookie is totally right.

And the convoy coming to a stop / 1 knots speed doesn't only happen when the "group leader" is taken out, but after *any* ship has been torpedoed. It happens to me every single time, I don't think I every single time happened to take out the "group leader". I torpedoed differently positioned ships in those encounters, too.

This group leader thing comes up from people who do not really understand the convoy bug but make the connection with that dev post where they came up with a list of things to fix. There was something in there with the group not choosing a new leader after the initial one is taken out - but if the devs or anyone thinks that this is indeed the problem with the convoys coming to a stop, then they are wrong, and the bug will still remain in 1.3. Great.
I guess its a complex issue because I have torpedoes several convoys where I choose juicy 2-3 targets, torpedo them to a stop, dive deep and wait for the rest of the convoy to steam ahead. I then surface a use the deckgun to sink the ships that have stopped. When I have done that I attack the convoy again and the scenario will start again.


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