After reading so many of the 'Buy, buy, buy!', 'Everyone should pre-order now or miss out!', and 'It will be the greatest game ever!' here in this forum, I do think a lot of people (not all) posting on the SH4 forum are impatient or ignorant. Sorry, but that's how I feel. Ignorant as in not knowing. Ignorance can be from innocence or stupidity, or both. But hey, SH4 is only a $50-$150 risk. Try not to get so offended because some posters here are not blindly defending SH4 before it's released. I guess a lot of people here don't remember or even know what happened after the release of SH3. I think the SH3 community and the SH4 community are totally different. The SH3 community remembers all of the problems and headaches we went through (and still do) with SH3. Maybe a lot of the excited people here who pre-ordered SH4 don't play SH3 or don't know the serious problems that could be experienced again in SH4. :o

I'm not offended, but thank you for your concern for my well-being.

You made a blanket and rather arrogant statement that anyone who purchases SH4 as soon as it's released is either ignorant, impatient or both. I'm suggesting that people who don't purchase SH4 according to your timeline aren't necessarily either of these. Something for you to consider.

I have nothing against people who pre-order SH4. It's their money and their choice. And I wasn't trying to call all people who pre-order SH4 stupid. Pre-ordering SH4 is risky, though, due to Ubisoft's record of releasing buggy, unfinished sims. I guess I get the feeling that people who post in this forum with a more cautious attitude are sometimes thought of as SH4 bashers or something because we don't 'believe in' SH4 or Ubisoft before it's released... like it's some kind of religion or something. :roll: I say that no way in hell does Ubisoft deserve our trust, faith or praise after the buggy and unfinished mess they released called SH3. And even after all the patches that they released later, they still didn't fix major things that were broken. But I still really like playing SH3 because the modders fixed the game as best they could (without the SDK), saving it from a certain premature death. I'm really cautious about SH4 and not too optimistic. But if I'm wrong and SH4 turns out to be good this time, I'll be happy.

The irony is that if enthusatic subsimmers hadn't purchased SH3 upon release despite all it's flaws there probably wouldn't be a SH4. Modders do wonderful things. But I've yet to see one produce a commercially successful submarine simulation from scratch. I also think the idea of a bug-free flawless game upon release is a chimera at best, given how complicated they're getting. There aren't a lot of companies developing submarine simulations, so Ubi gets my support by default.

I agree. A buggy SH4 is better than no SH4. But the problem modders run into is that when we try to fix things that are broken, we can't because too much of the game is hard-coded. And Ubisoft still refuses to release the SDK for SH3. I can't even begin to describe the frustrations modders have to go through when trying to mod and fix a game where most of the important things are still hard-coded. But I really hope this time they do a better job on release. I am tired of the Atlantic battles and I am ready to do some Pacific stuff. Keeping my fingers crossed.

:yep: :up:

I'm keeping mine crossed too. Wouldn't it be nice if submarine simulations were the cash-cows that some of the other games out there are? We'd get every room in the sub with the battery compartments thrown in as well. :D We've still got it better than the modern subsim crowd tho. Sounds like Sonalysts is really struggling.

They probably are struggling. The player audience is much smaller for ultra-realistic, less graphics, modern sub sims. I really hope SH4 is good. If they would release the SDK's, you wouldn't believe what the modders would be capable of doing. But maybe that's what Ubisoft is afraid of. :D

Alas, I'm no expert on that subject. My speculation as to why they haven't released the SDK is perhaps they didn't want some clever modders to beat them to the punch in the Pacific. ;) (ala Pacific Aces with SH2)

I'm a realist. SH4 will undoubtedly contain bugs. So what? SH3 had bugs on release but we lived (and continue to live, despite its still failings and frustrations). It's not like SH4 is a full OS like Vista - that ain't getting anywhere near my computer until at least SP1!

Indeed though, if I waited for "bug free" versions of everything I wanted, then my computer would only contain my products. :rotfl:

Nah, the worst thing with SH4 is that if it is totally unplayable (highly unlikely), then it just sits untouched on my HD until the first patch comes out and then I try again. No dramas - I still have my SH3 to tide me over.

Anyway, I have faith that the modders will see us through 1.1...1.2...1.3... :rock:

I would also like to think that the more people who buy SH4 on release will mean the more bugs that will be found will mean the more inclusive the first patch will be.

You must be winning the other copy then. ;)

Sonalysts isn't struggling in the least. They have various government contracts.

The problem there is that DW did so poorly that the higher ups at sonalysts don't really see any point in having devs and financial resources tied up in projects that will end up losing money or breaking even. For them,games have always been a side project,and if they don't meet financial projections then they quit making them.

Yeah...I probably should have amended that to struggling in the commercial game department. That is a niche market for sure.

Which leaves UbiSoft perhaps as the lone subsim developer standing for the present.

No way i will be waiting, when the game arrives i will be playing it.

"Anyone else going to wait?"

Not me. I'm buying 2 copies.. One for me and one for a friend of mine as a gift who has SHIII but can't afford SHIV at this time.

Don't you wish you had a friend like me? :yep:

:()1: :up:

I will wait until DC2 is out (I may wait for a longggggggggg time)