That’s Capitalism in its purest form, the best product wins. Economic Darwinism.

Having two good products doubles the chances of a sale.

I understand what capitalism is TLAM.

That is simply not correct. Are you saying that Europe is offering both the EF and the Rafael? That's flat out wrong. A group of European nations is offering the EF and France is offering the Rafael. Which means seperate development costs and less unit buys, both domestic and foreign. And they both are going to/already have loose. They are 10 years too late and tens of millions of dollars too expensive in reinventing the wheel and trying to sell it. Let alone two different versions.


http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/new...ws/sb05_p1.xml

France was part of the original EFA group but dropped out to go it alone.

I also think this idea of going for UCAVs is daft.

The concept that they would be throw away mass attack craft has gone and instead they are looking likely to cost as much as a fully manned fighter plane.

Talk about reinventing the wheel. Some idiot in the British govt once upon a time thought all fighting would be done by missiles, and so a load of gret world beating projects were cancelled.

Yes UAVs have their place and so do UCAVs but to replace a manned strike fighter with a UCAV is madness.

The Tornado replacement the FOA - Future Offensive Aircraft has now turned to looking at UCAVs to fulfill the requirement. Big mistake as the UCAV will end up being large enough to put a man in it just by the nature of teh range/bombload requirements.

You know what will happen then. Some bright spark will go "Hey, we can put a guy in one of those things, have aman in the loop (again) so they'll spend millions to see how to fit a cockpit and everything else with it.

Why Xab?

I consider developing and buying a $60+ million platform for Europe to be total idiocy. There will be peace in Europe for a long time to come, if not forever. Which means you are building your armed forces around peacekeeping. A fighter bomber is overkill for that role. If you can get your UCAV for under $25 million what's the point in buying a hugely expensive fighter bomber?

And BTW, the only way that Europe will be able to beat JSF sales is marketing a cheap UCAV IMO.

That would be good news for a change!
:up:
My only question is: does every nation agree on this? Also neighbouring states like Syria, Iran, the former Soviet republics?
At the beginning of the XXth Century people had the same thoughts, but Europe failed miserably...

I thought France was current part of the EF team. It would make sense to export both the EF and Rafael, no matter what the customer chooses to buy you get paid.

???? Balkans doesn't make you rethink that statement? Or the EU wanting to share borders with the Middle East in the forseeable future (Turkey entrance)? Oil becomes short, pipeleines become priority targets for Europe is depending on them, they lead thorugh Easteuropean countries that are within range of civil unrest and violance that may emerge from countries that once belonged to the southern provinces of the USSR. If these pipelines get threatened by whatever a faction and to too much effect, then europe could be drawn into military conflicts sooner than people can imagine. And the problems on the Balkans remain. then there is russia itself. Belarus. Cyprus. Greece - Macedonia - Turkey. Northafrica, the pressure of migration patterns, and spreading of orthodox Islam. Poor nations may swtich over to desparate means.

I wouldn't take peace in Europe as granted - only as more likely than a new great war.

Currently.

The Eurofighter was in this same competition against the Rafale and F-15, but was eliminated from the running 5 months ago. By any standard, the Rafale did better than the Eurofighter this time around since it made it all the way to the finals. Three years ago, South Korea also opted to buy F-15s, beating out competitiors that included the Eurofighter, Rafale, and Su-35.

The Eurofighter is not really faring much better than the Rafale in the export market. Last I checked, the only country outside the original consortium (Britain, Germany, Italy, Spain) to have ordered any is Austria, and they're not buying all that many.

peace in europe huh ????

thats not what i saw in bosnia in 1999 if that was peace cor i dread to think what war is :o

So you all think Europe playing a supporting role again in the next AF would be accomplished best by the EF/Rafale?

And it was Kosovo in 1999, Kapitain. Not Bosnia.

Singapore selects F-15T over Rafale
 

We agree again fully!
:-j
If the West doesn't succeed in creating peace or at least less tension in the Middle East we might be extremely dependable upon Russian oil and gas one day. And into competition with China for that.
Nice prospect...?
:-?
We agree again fully!
:-j
Sky & I wouldn't take peace in Europe as granted - only as more likely than a major military conflict.
Currently.