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-   -   School shooting in Germany leaves 16 dead (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=149246)

OneToughHerring 03-11-09 11:16 AM

Well I suppose the society cannot function entirely based on a trust system. I mean in USA many people buy guns in the first place to keep safe from other people.

SteamWake 03-11-09 11:20 AM

Full moon

http://kalender-365.de/lunar-calendar.php

Onkel Neal 03-11-09 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring
Well I suppose the society cannot function entirely based on a trust system. I mean in USA many people buy guns in the first place to keep safe from other people.

Not only in the USA.

SteamWake 03-11-09 11:30 AM

Well that dident take long

EU moves to tighten gun control

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090311/...ope_gun_laws_1

Im expecting to see something similar in US as well.

Skybird 03-11-09 11:44 AM

Gun laws are alrerady pretty tight in Germany now. And the theory exam is meant to scare people away. I have seen what ammount of material my father had to study when preparing for his WBK - and that was before they made the laws even tighter some years ago, in the wake of another school shooting.

I think that is a rcipe that could work to some degree: make the exams so tough that most people lose interest in even trying to engage with firearms, and that especially the easyminded get sorted out.

Aramike 03-11-09 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomen
I grew up in Germany around weapons. My Dad was a hunter and al ot of his friends were hunters also. I knew where the weapons were and what kind of weapons he had. The only way I could get to them would have been to knock my parents out and steal the only key to them that was in the house. My father had his key in his view almost all the time. Even when they went to bed he took em with him.

Same here, I grew up in the country, my father had a couple shotguns, a deer rifle, and a pistol. He kept them in his closet. While the closet simply had an ordinary door, no locks, he had a superior security system. He told me not to mess with them. That's all it took. He trusted me, and I respected him.

My thoughts go out to the German families who have suffered this tragedy.

Precisely.

Besides, does anyone really think that tough gun laws will deter someone looking to shoot up a school? RIIIGHHT...

...we've seen how well outlawing drugs worked...

Kapt Z 03-11-09 11:50 AM

no words.:nope:

(regarding the events, not anyone's arguements)

Digital_Trucker 03-11-09 11:50 AM

That prohibition thing didn't work out very well, either.

OneToughHerring 03-11-09 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens
Quote:

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring
Well I suppose the society cannot function entirely based on a trust system. I mean in USA many people buy guns in the first place to keep safe from other people.

Not only in the USA.

Well yes but in USA in special out of the so called western industrial nations. The 'first world'.

Foxtrot 03-11-09 12:04 PM

My condolences.

Pity the gunman died or the USA could have sued him for infringement of copyright.

NeonSamurai 03-11-09 12:23 PM

You know, I don't think guns are the source of the problem, they just increase the body count. The real problems are the media, entertainment, the toxic environment of most schools, and the kids themselves.

Starting with the kids and working backwards. Now it is obvious that there is something wrong with them when they end up going on a shooting spree, the question was what was the cause of it all. Well the first thing is that these kids tend to be different from other kids, they either think, talk or, act (or a combination) differently. Now that normally isn't a problem, until you reach school.

The school system tends to be a very toxic and stifling environment. As much as we like to think otherwise, kids pretty much are vicious intolerant little bastards. They hate difference of any kind and will try to enforce sameness in a group. Those that don't or can't conform they will attack, and ostracize. Different kids are rejected by their peers, and often bullied and brutalized for it. This tends to get worse as children grow older and usually peaks towards the end of highschool. This in my opinion is the principal trigger (and why they target their peers, as they are pretty much paying their peers back for all that was done to them).

The entertainment industry spreads messages of violence and that it is the way to get even. It's a constant reoccurring theme in virtually all forms of entertainment (movies, tv, games) that violence is the best solution to problems, that violence is cool, and that violence is fun and rewarding. This will naturally infect peoples views especially children which have not built up a defense.

Then there is the media and how they report such attacks. They pretty much reverse glorify the acts. Such attacks are spread across the media with reactions of fear and outrage. The individuals who committed the acts are made famous. Media coverage is intense on such events. Pretty much the media turns the individuals into anti heroes, especially in the minds of similar kids.

Last there is the issue of brain development in teenagers which cause them to act rashly and irrationally. I'll spare you the science of it all, lets just say it involves too many neurons and short circuits. It's the principle reason why teenagers will do incredibly stupid things, like try to escape the police in a high speed chase because a tail light is burnt out on the car.

Ok so to sum up, brutalized rejected different kids see going on a rampage as being a good idea because: a) the media makes it sound good, nothing like going out in a blaze of glory. b) entertainment has taught them that the best way to solve problems is to shoot them. and c) their brains are wired making them prone to irrational thought and foolish decisions.

The reason why school massacres are a more modern thing is simply because we have reached critical mass. Rejection and brutalization is not a new thing at schools, nor are people being different, or how teenagers think new either. What has changed is the media, entertainment, and social acceptance of violence. However the best way to deal with the problem would be to deal with the key reason behind the violence, the school environment. Putting the brakes on the media and limiting access to violent entertainment wouldn't be such a bad idea either.

Biggles 03-11-09 12:31 PM

For me, it matters little why it happened at the moment. The fact that it did happen is just enough for me to feel....I don't know what.

I'm so sorry to hear about these terrible news.

SteamWake 03-11-09 01:12 PM

What we need is scissor control !

Quote:

Boy, 8, Stabbed to Death With Scissors, Officer Injured
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,508641,00.html

Enigma 03-11-09 01:17 PM

Quote:

What we need is scissor control !
Scissors are not designed to kill. I'm pretty sure you'll find plenty more cases of students being killed in shootings than in scissor attacks. This argument falls on it's face before it's out the gate....

AVGWarhawk 03-11-09 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enigma
Quote:

What we need is scissor control !
Scissors are not designed to kill. I'm pretty sure you'll find plenty more cases of students being killed in shootings than in scissor attacks. This argument falls on it's face before it's out the gate....

Scissors....I think I will run with a pair of scissors later on. :D

Digital_Trucker 03-11-09 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enigma
Quote:

What we need is scissor control !
Scissors are not designed to kill. I'm pretty sure you'll find plenty more cases of students being killed in shootings than in scissor attacks. This argument falls on it's face before it's out the gate....

You'll probably find more cases of students being killed by automobiles. Maybe car control legislation is what's needed?

I think you totally missed the point. The weapons (yes, scissors and automobiles are weapons) are not what needs controlling, it's the humans who use them that are the problem.

Sailor Steve 03-11-09 01:36 PM

Yep, among students cars win. But so does heart disease.
http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/death_stats.html

Schroeder 03-11-09 01:53 PM

Is there no one else here who sees a major differnce between car accidents and massacres?:timeout:

Car accidents are often caused by idiots who drive to fast and/or intoxicated. But they don't kill on purpose!
All school shootings done in Germany during the last decade were carried out with legally owned fire arms. Not a single one was an illegaly obtained one (at least I don't remember anything about illegal weapons). So I think that gun control can prevent such things at least to a certain degree, one more obstacle that has to to be overcome.

Thomen 03-11-09 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder
Is there no one else here who sees a major differnce between car accidents and massacres?:timeout:

Car accidents are often caused by idiots who drive to fast and/or intoxicated. But they don't kill on purpose!
All school shootings done in Germany during the last decade were carried out with legally owned fire arms. Not a single one was an illegaly obtained one (at least I don't remember anything about illegal weapons). So I think that gun control can prevent such things at least to a certain degree, one more obstacle that has to to be overcome.

Vigilant gun owners can prevent more massacres. More restrictions do not really help there, except if you want to confiscate and ban ALL weapons.

Digital_Trucker 03-11-09 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder
Is there no one else here who sees a major differnce between car accidents and massacres?:timeout:

Car accidents are often caused by idiots who drive to fast and/or intoxicated. But they don't kill on purpose!
All school shootings done in Germany during the last decade were carried out with legally owned fire arms. Not a single one was an illegaly obtained one (at least I don't remember anything about illegal weapons). So I think that gun control can prevent such things at least to a certain degree, one more obstacle that has to to be overcome.

Of course we can see the difference between car accidents and massacres. The point is that far more people are killed by car accidents than massacres, so maybe we should concentrate on what kills the most people.

As for gun control, it's possible that some of the massacres would be stopped by stricter gun control, but it's my belief that far more would be stopped by the owners of the guns keeping them better controlled (ie locked up). Unless you stop making guns totally (not a bad idea if EVERYONE would do it), someone who wants to kill will find a way to do so (whether it be illegal guns, or scissors, or explosives, or.......)


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