A good point of reference for a new patch could be if the devs use sh3 with GWX or nygm and see what is a good submarine game.

is difficult understand how they can make a buggy game using the code of sh3 and making too many mistakes.:doh:

I suspect about a lot of time expended with the graphic engine and other gameplay factors abandoned by lack of time.

To this point of yours I agree whole heartedly. As I understand it, one change here in this file screws up another file over there. Taking a few on at a time and assuring the desired results are obtained is the best way to go. Nothing worse than a patch clearing up a bug but introducing another bug. I can't say any new bugs were introduced with 1.2. My game plays better then ever and I got some nice fixes.

Yes, the game is totally playable. I really do not have major issues with any of it. On the same token, some simple principles of the submarine do need a fix, ie. chronometer, open all tubes. These things that make a sub a sub!

Warhawk, you know there's a fix over in the mods forum to have all tubes open at the same time, right? Very simple change to Commands.cfg and works flawlessly as far as I can tell. Has made a major difference for me, firing off a quick salvo! "Fire One! Fire Two! Fire Three!" and no more waiting 10 seconds for doors to open after each shot :up:

Chronometer I'd definitely like to see fixed. Also the IDL/torpedo track problem on the attack map. Hopefully in 1.3 - but I'm prepared to wait a while if that's what it takes to do it right...

All in all, I'm loving SH4 despite the shortcomings. And expecting that in a year, after all the patches and work by the mods, we'll have a kick-*ss sim that will make GWX look so-so.

Some intresting points harry but the way most gamers think is why pay 50 bucks upwards for a game thats going to take a year or more to fix. Back in the day you could install silent service 1 or 2 and of you went no patches same with elite i mean 17 years down the line and yes we have much better technology but the software side of it has went to hell in a handbag:yep:

Everything you say is true. SS2 was a fantastic game, I cut my sub-sim teeth on that one and have lusted after WW2 sub combat in the Pacific for many years on account of that game.

But let's look at the difference between SS2 and SH4. SS2 shipped on (excuse me, I forget the exact number, been too many years) somewhere between 1 and 5 DS-DD 3.25" floppy disks at under 1 meg each. The entire game was certainly well under 5 megs if even that large. When it came out I had a 100 meg HD which was of respectable size at the time. Most of the PC's at my office were still using 10 or 20 meg drives back then.

SH4 however, ships on a DVD weighing in at 3.83 GIGABYTES... Just a little bit larger, don't you think? (a tiny bit larger ;)) And a little bit more complex. You ask me, it's a miracle that something that big and complex can work at all.

About patches for SS2, how would they be distributed? The internet was in it's infancy back then and if you had a connection at all you were doing good. If you had a 1200 baud connection you rocked! Either way, you paid out the *ss for it, I was paying $6/hr for non-prime connect over a 1200 baud dialup connection. And I remember worrying myself sick over whether I could afford to d/l that 100k byte file I wanted.

About paying $50 for a game in 2007, well I was paying $50 for games in 1985 that were nowhere near as engrossing as SH4. According to the "Inflation Calculator" at http://www.westegg.com/inflation/ well that $50 I spent in 1985 would cost me nearly $94 today!

To sum it up, I'm not so sure that it's a case of the "software going to hell in a handbag", more than it is a case of the user's expectations, and the hardware's ability growing faster than the software technology can keep up.

DH

Me too! Kinda getting fed up of the bitchers and moaners - too bad they have a larger audience. Applied patch 1.2 ... never had a CTD since and having great fun! I don't mind that it is not TOTALLY perfect sub-sim. That's what counts. >>> I <<< enjoy it. Playing it for hours on end with enjoyment.

Someone or some people need to put the "bitchers" in check, SOON! Getting fed up with them. :(

I think one of the big probs now Harry is the suits run the gaming business but back in the day the gamers ran it but times change oh and SS2 was released in 1990, 17 years ago.
Oh and monica this isnt a bitching thread this is a thread to let ubi know yes there is problems and yes we would like them fixed. On average 8 out of 10 sh4 players are expierencing problems to a major or minor degree, wouldnt you think that ubi have reason to fix the problems.
I am not going to bitch about SH4 its going to shape up to be a brilliant game once all those little nags are fixed and a lot of the bugs well its almost like there are dozens of of small bugs but no massive major bug and thats what can be annoying. All i'm asking is if you have something positive to be seen and by ubi to help get the game fixed the way sh3 was say it instead of atacking people who are having valid and ongoing problems with SH4:up:

Well as I mentioned they are bugs of copied from other threads. Actually I haven't had a single CTD whilst using patch 1.2.. only 4 patrols tho...

I don't really want to repeat myself but!

There are some many bugs spread all over the place in both this forum and over at UBI. We need a central point to collate the bugs so that we can all agree on which bugs are critical, which bugs can be fixed by modders, which bugs are seen by everyone. UBI moderators have stickied a bug report website http://www.sh4bugs.com which seems out of date (I couldn't actually get on it yesterday either.

My point is that we need to know what UBI intend to do with SH4 and we need to know where to put all the bugs so that the devs don't have to wade through thread after thread..... I suggested a NEW heavily moderated sticky earlier.. What do the moderators think about that?

Please add that the spread angle cannot be set on a per tube basis.

Once you change it it stays the same as you switch tubes requiring a last second adjustment.

I want to have my salvo set up and ready to launch.

Lee you're right about the suits, they rule our modern world. It just took them a while to realise that mere "video games" could be a source of $$$ that they could stuff into their pockets.

But I guess without 'em, we woudn't have many games at all to play. The technology has grown too fast for even the dedicated (much less casual) gamer to code games for us. GWX is a work of art, but if the suits at UBI hadn't said "Let There Be SH3", would we have anything like GWX today? Don't think so...

It's a shame when a potential work of art can only be fathered by suits that don't know the difference between a DD and a DC and a CV. People who don't have a clue what it's about, all they want is to stuff the $$$ into their pockets as fast as they can.

But at least they DID do it, they DID order the devs to make SH4 and so at least a rough canvas has been laid out. With a few more patches and the work of the modders (you guys rule!) there may yet be a work of art to be found in SH4!

Yep, I know that SS2 was out in 1990, I bought it the day it was released! My point was, things were so much simpler then. Imagine going back in time to 1990 and telling the lead dev on the SS2 team, "I need you to come up with a nice tight routine to generate volumetric fog... While you're at it, I also want transparent water!" Well, he'd look at you like you'd lost your mind. Back then most of the code went into generating the relatively simple physics of the sim world, today, most of the code goes into generating the eye-candy.

OK, I better shut up now - said too much, had a few too many pints :rotfl:I would just say in closing, let's don't demand a patch - we've done that and look what we got. Let's be patient and give devs/UBI time. We got up to what, 1.4b in SH3? So hopefully we've got a few more coming for SH4, and the modders can take it from there!

Well its offical harry were a pair of old farts. Regarding patch/s they should release smaller patches aiming at the worst bugs working to the lighter bugs later that way we can see how effective each one is making it a quicker proccess to fix and not a massive download and having to wait months for one fix all patch imho easy way do lots of little ones in a nice steady stream:up:

Yep that one drives me batsh*t! I get tired of being faced with the choice of firing a longitudinal spread, or going thru all the "clickety-click" bs after each launch to get the solution I really want.

I've also noticed that if I set up "Contact" for the fuse setting, after a while it reverts back to "Contact/Influence". I'd love to be able to set up each tube as I want with respect to depth, speed, spread, detonator and have it keep those settings!

DH

No intent of being negative to you or any other nice folks here.

Just frustrated with SO MANY negative posts elsewhere here about the game.

Sorry dude. Was not attacking you or others that share the same view point.

My apologies, sir.

Bug list v2

1) Just crossed the international date line from Pearl to Japan. Attack screen bug still happens. No Torpedo tracking once you cross the line.

2) Radar still doesn't work when heading South 90deg to 270deg. Possible mod fix for this issue.

3) I noticed a minor rendering issue with 1.2: Seems the UZO view doesn´t scale to the resolution when not using 1024x768. There is a little part on top showing the scene behind the screen in 1280x1024. The bearing display is wrong, too.

4) Ship dimensions are still faulty = incorrect firing data (range) for TDC for some ships.

5) The stuttering is back it seems? May not be a bug.

6) Patch 1.2, After installing the new patch the DD's don’t use their searchlights anymore!

7) Unconfirmed: Just encountered a CTD while surfacing and lowering the attack periscope at the same time.

8) Chronometer still doesn’t work.

9) White outline along the hull of the sub when looking down through the external camera. Very noticeable on railings if sub is submerged to conning tower.

10) Sun shines still through objects, now even with full intensity.

11) If volumetric fog is enabled the deck crew still appears transparent after some minutes. See also (31.)

12) AA gun repair bug still there – AA gun doesn’t repair. Dragon – I haven’t had this issue.. anyone else?

13) Numpad del no longer works. Warhawk comments that this does work for him… anyone else?

14) Dive planes don’t even come down anymore after a few dives and surfaces.

15) Still getting CTD errors while in navmap during campaign (not mentioned by everyone)

16) I've got a merchant here; that I put a torpedo into, stopping it's engines, but it still continues on at about 4 knts, despite a heavy list to Starboard.

17) Sounds are still coming from a 180 degree wrong direction. Situation awareness suffers when submerged and evading escorts.

18) Dive planes are still horribly broken, everytime without fail around halfway through a patrol the Bow planes will look inverted and refuse to even move like they should. Anyone else have this issue?

19) Can someone confirm if the SD radar is indeed fixed? As far as I can tell it is still detecting ships but now it does not detect aircraft at all. I just got bombed by a couple flying boats while I sat there watching the SD radar in different ranges and they did not show up at all.

20) Hydrophones still do not work at periscope depth.

21) Sound bugs still present with "Realistic Sound Travel" enabled (e.g., popping sounds when firing AA guns, explosion sounds cut off, slight delay in deck gun sound, etc.

22) We now have approx a 9.7X Magnification attack scope. (Should be 6X)

23) All AI needs tweaking, too often ships all come to a stop and muddle around. Destroyers seem somewhat uninterested..

24) Neat mechanical ticking sound when using the TDC is gone http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/cid:...78480.75076E10Bring it back.

25) being able to open multiple outer doors and having the sound effect play

26) making the TDC speed function bring up a "magic watch" to give the casual player an estimated speed of target

27) Widescreen users get a cropped rather than expanded image. TBT & periscope scaling bitmap masks appear to be inaccurate.

28) External viewable damage to subs vanishes on a savegame load.

29) The deck gun doesn't repair.

30) There is no obvious visual way to ascertain true damage to the sub.

31) The ghost crew issue - crew are slightly transparent all the time with full settings and like ghosts in fog. The conning tower is transparent or semi transparent when using the periscope.

32) Anonmalies with torpedo damage... may be a "feature". Example 8 torpedos + deck gun shots sink a merchant, 5 deck gun shots or less to destroy a destroyer.

33) Buttons still missing like weather, rank, how long distance at this speed, id target.

34) Message log delay problem. There are workaround mod fixes for this.

35) The sub not responding to waves correctly especially in rough seas. The wake behind the sub, especially in rough seas, floats above the waves.

36) Possible problem with torpedo detonation choices. Some users report they are reversed. Also the detonation type chosen resets.

37) Fix open all tube doors. There is a mod which does fix his issue however.

38) Fix the radar and sonar – There may be a mod fix for this.. I haven’t tried it yet.

39) Campaign retirement – feature or bug?

40) Aircraft.. the skies are full of them! There are some mod fixes for this.

41) Aircraft flight model – Collide with mountains rather easily and there is a tendancy for them to swoop rather low during attack runs.

See what I mean? DragonRR1 posted his manisfesto. Useless crap - tired of these useless posts by folks like that. Could you imagine someone like that publishing a book? Who would bother to read it?

Get's us nowhere DragonRR1.

<Edit: Really bad taste, man>

None taken monica i know what you mean i'm intending this thread to be a way of postivly doing something about the problem instead of whining about it we know its there so time to speak up and let ubi know were slightly annoyed:rotfl: and letting them know whats wrong wont hurt non either also dragon thats a pretty good list i think ive expierenced about 30 outa the 40 plus you have. Any way heres hoping ubi sit up and pay attention so we can get this fine game back on track. Also dragon stick a copy of this on the 1.2 bug thread as well please

With all due respect. I am not whining here. These are bugs listed by a number of forum posters. Some of them may be spurious but most of them are issues which ideally need fixing. If you are happy with the game as is.. fine. If you don't want to read about the bugs people are experiencing ... well don't bloody well read threads complaining about bugs or read threads titled.. "Lets petition UBI for a decent patch"

Dragon

Thank you! Some people do not understand good managers or good mangement. Pour out all the negative stuff and hash it out. And get the negative stuff on the table where EVERYONE can see the bad points. And work on the easy ones FIRST to give ALL a sense of accomplishment of solving the problem. Most importantly after you shoot your mouth off, suggest a fix. Be a member of the solution, not the bitch complaining about it.

But... most importantly ALWAYS end on a positive note! Did! not see/read that - nor ANY solutions like try this MOD to fix this shortcoming, etc.. And there is more negative vibes in the works I suspect.

Live long and prosper, Dragon.

Well I don't know about you, my friend, but I'm such a dried-up old fart that when I break wind I have get out the Hoover to vacuum the dust out of my shorts!

We'll see what happens with future patches, one way or the other, for better or worse. I agree with you, fix the worst first. I just worry that the suits see the insistant demands on the various forums for a patch, and they tell the devs, "Get it out!!! FAST!!!! Make it FLASHY!!!! Don't worry about CONTENT, just make it LOOK good!!!!" And soon the patch resources are expended...

Lord I'd hate to see that happen... this sim has got so much potential!

DH