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-   -   Counter measures for the AI (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=89572)

BigBadVuk 02-17-06 02:30 AM

Tonight i made 1 simple test........
LA class with bunch of tomahawks ready to kill any surface threat and 1 surface ship capable of dispersing CMs..(Sovremennyy )
I was at 130ft depth, and i fired 6 missiles at target just to see what is gonna happen...

Range was about 13nm..All missiles was on target ..BUT!..some 2-3 nm away frim ship 3 tomahawks rised from their low level aproach and acquired chaffs released from russian ship(they missed target by 1.5nm roughly),2 missiles was shot down (by SAM )and 1 managed to slip and hit the ship!...so again i must admit..Chaffs do the job!...Cheers :rock: :arrgh!: :rotfl:

MaHuJa 02-17-06 04:31 AM

For autonomous seekers like the tasm, and pretty much every ASM/SSM in the game, chaff does indeed work.
I personally cannot remember haven't seen autonomous AAM/SAMs go after them, but they very well might.
What I'm not so sure about is if the same applies to guided missiles, like the sm2. Against those, I haven't observed any countermeasure-caused misses... Only the standard missile fail ratio. (Previous sentence can be read to multiple meanings)

We should get that in the clear. Making the AI CM-happy might help in finding out.

Another thing I'd like to see a helo near a friendly ship under fire drop a couple. We don't have blip enhancers that attracts SSMs, but the chaff line (or flare line) would still help.

Molon Labe 02-17-06 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuftWolf
Molon, you and I have seen missiles go for flares in a certain test a few weeks ago... :yep: :)

Quote:

Outside of limited LW/Ami Beta testing, I've never seen an anti-air missile pursue a flare or chaff instead of the real target anyways.

Molon Labe 02-17-06 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBadVuk
Tonight i made 1 simple test........
LA class with bunch of tomahawks ready to kill any surface threat and 1 surface ship capable of dispersing CMs..(Sovremennyy )
I was at 130ft depth, and i fired 6 missiles at target just to see what is gonna happen...

Range was about 13nm..All missiles was on target ..BUT!..some 2-3 nm away frim ship 3 tomahawks rised from their low level aproach and acquired chaffs released from russian ship(they missed target by 1.5nm roughly),2 missiles was shot down (by SAM )and 1 managed to slip and hit the ship!...so again i must admit..Chaffs do the job!...Cheers :rock: :arrgh!: :rotfl:


Sigh, I'm ready to concede to the people that have seen it happen, but those are not ANTI-AIR missiles! No one is arguing this point! :hulk:

Molon Labe 02-17-06 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaHuJa
For autonomous seekers like the tasm, and pretty much every ASM/SSM in the game, chaff does indeed work.
I personally cannot remember haven't seen autonomous AAM/SAMs go after them, but they very well might.
What I'm not so sure about is if the same applies to guided missiles, like the sm2. Against those, I haven't observed any countermeasure-caused misses... Only the standard missile fail ratio. (Previous sentence can be read to multiple meanings)

We should get that in the clear. Making the AI CM-happy might help in finding out.

Another thing I'd like to see a helo near a friendly ship under fire drop a couple. We don't have blip enhancers that attracts SSMs, but the chaff line (or flare line) would still help.

Well, I was just playing Riposte yesterday, and I observed the Badgers firing at least one chaff canister per SM-2 fired. I didn't see any missiles actually go for the chaff for sure, but the hit % was in the 25-33% range instead of the 75-80% that I'm used to seeing for the SM-2. I think it's likely that the chaff is having some sort of effect...

This was with LW/Ami 3.0B.

OKO 02-17-06 11:27 AM

yes definitly effect on CM, on both IR (... with flares of course) and radar missiles (with chaff)

As FFG diver, if you hear your crew releasing a flare (you need to be in auto CM for the FFG) then, you know there is a skimmer around (yes ... AC CM release a flare first against radar guided missiles .......... :huh: )

If you, at this time, release, 4 or 5 chaffs, then do a sharp turn to come back in the middle of them, you don't even need SM2 or CIWS, you will see the skimmer will miss (95% of time) because he will lock a CM.
It's not really eye candy as the missile just disapear, but chaff and flares works from the first day of DW.

So, if you drive an OHP against other surface targets, load only 4 flares and the rest with chaff.

Of course, it's always better to engage the inbound missiles at long range, with SM2, and to switch the CIWS on auto, to maximise the protection of the FFG.

With this tactics, you can fight an AI DDG with very good survival ratio.

LuftWolf 02-17-06 05:46 PM

Quote:

This was with LW/Ami 3.0B.

LWAMI 3.00B is old news, use the LWAMI 3.00 preview addition until I unlock my hands and write the proper readme.

http://www.orionwarrior.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=12418

MaHuJa 02-17-06 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKO
As FFG diver, if you hear your crew releasing a flare (you need to be in auto CM for the FFG) then, you know there is a skimmer around (yes ... AC CM release a flare first against radar guided missiles .......... :huh: )

It will release the one in the first ready launcher on the side the missile comes from. Whatever is loaded there.

OKO 02-17-06 06:40 PM

huuu ... so I need to put a chaff at first launchers
thanks Mahuja

LuftWolf 02-17-06 06:43 PM

I put Chaff in all the FFG launchers, since some radar guided missiles even alone or in small groups are deadly for the FFG and sometimes your only defense is multiple clouds of chaff between the missiles and you.

Since IR missiles are mostly slower, lighter, and shorter ranged than their radar guided ASM counterparts, I put my faith in the CIWS and offensive systems (aka. SM-2 or ASuW weapons) to limit my exposure to IR ASMs. :up:


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