TMO with RSRD is the best route the way I see it.Especially with various modifications for TMO, can tweak it just right.I have a couple mods I put together for TMO that change things, eliminates the unrealistic "death blows" except in rare circumstances and tweaks depth charges a bit more, if can get them to upload.stay tuned.

If it's TMO 2.5 with Easier AI that you are looking for, try the mod in the link below.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=3542

I can understand why you are unhappy. If this sort of thing is happening, it is patently unrealistic.

I will suggest you consider another course of action:

1. dump the enviromental mods; one might be screwing up TMO.

2. dump everything and use RFB (with or without the corresponding version of RSRDC).

You said TMO is not unrealistically challanging, but isn't spotting a periscope at night at 2,000 yds. unrealistic?

"Therefore you do not take stupid chances" from an above post.

Fortune Favors the Bold.

I'll take a stupid chances everyday over an adversary who expects school taught tactics. Doing what is not expected will get you another days fight and most likely a sinking to boot. Making runs flank speed let em chase you and send them to the bottom with one down the throat.

Drop down to 350 feet and crawl within 800 yards go all stop and rise to periscope depth and blast them out of the water with such little time that they can not even move out of the way.

Out run a convoy and sit 160 meters down waiting for the lead escort to pass then rise and fire at your closest target from bow and stern tube and head off to the rear of the convoy flank speed and back to 160 meters.

You have to say to yourself every day ... I am already dead. Once you get that in your head chances are your boldness and brash tactics will baffle them.

Ever went all back full while being depth charged? Why not? That simple maneuver has gotten me out of so many jams. They know your heading, they hear your engines, they expect you to dive deep while moving straight a head.

What they do not expect is for you to go all back full, left full rudder to line up a shot on them after they pass you missing with every depth charge they have dropped. This has me sinking either them or giving my self a chance to then drop down while they are making their turn back towards me. It has sure saved my hide on hedgehog attacks many times.

probably, but on the other hand I managed to get within 1500 yds of a IJN TF, 1 CL, 2 DD on the surface at night before being spotted.

It is more than just distance, there are many factors at work, including the skill level of the AI. I had compared the RFB and TMO AI files sometimes back. TMO is not across the board harder, just tweaked differently. As I recall, In TMO, you will generally be spotted quicker then in RFB in daytime, nice weather, no wind/waves. OTOH, you will generally be spotted quicker in RFB then in TMO in choppy/windy/stormy weather.

Again the nice thing about SH4 is that there are many variations of AI to suit every player's personal style. I personally like the TMO 2.5 AI because it is the most challenging to play against. :arrgh!:

As it turned out I'm thankful for that merchant, if it wasn't for the 6hrs(game time) chasing it I wouldn't have sunk my 1st Battleship a few hrs later, I would have been miles away!

I fired 4 torps from my stern tubes from 3000 yds before diving deep to 400 ft. One escort was within 2500 yds when I fired but never realised I was even there. And none of the escorts detected me even though it was nearly 3 hrs before they went away. I surfaced after four hrs to find the Kongo just sitting there, it took a further 7 torpedoes to sink it, 3 impacts 1 miss and seven duds in total. This took placed at night with a flat sea and no fog.

Point being I still don't uderstand how the Merchant detected me, when none of the escorts, who are trained for, it did not.

I'm thinking he did not. Ships/convoys will change course sometimes.

I remember in SHCE, ships would turn away when they were spooked. In this game they tend to do a constant helming thing (but not always, it seems), steering to one side, then another.

I'm wondering about the searchlights. Are searchlight equipped merchants standard in TMO? Are you sure it was a merchant? :06:

Since returnig to the game I seen several merchants that haven't detected me change curse. Sometimes by just a few degrees while rounding a headland, others by around 90 degrees, but this one started weaving from side to side after speeding up staying on the same general heading.

There are quite a few merchants with searchlights now, could be in TMO,not sure though. And I'm reasonably sure it was a mechant,my sonar man said it was,and from the silhouette it looked a quite large ship,something like a Nagara Maru, I can''t be 100% sure though.

I made a no searchlight mod for Bubble, removes searchlight from merchants and large capital ships. He would probably send it to you. I never quite finished my night surface env, just tweak nights and AI so you can better pull off night attacks. Bubble uses it and likes it ok, but hopefully I can finish it. Think I included night env and no searchlights in one mod. I think I have it if you want to try it..

For those wanting to know what it is like at sea in real life. It is dark. Saying that once your eyes adjust you see much more than you think you could otherwise. Part of my duty at sea while I was in the Navy was forward and aft look out. I didn't like missing sleep but I did love being alone in the dark with nothing around but open water.

On a moon lit night you can see for miles. If you have clear skies you can see the bright glow of the center of the galaxy we live in with the naked eye. A submarine would have been easily spotted by a look out but only if certain conditions were right. Of course is there a moon? In the field of view does the boat pass in front of the moon reflection in the water? Is there phosphorus in the water? If so the wake itself will create light that can be seen.

On a moonless night pretty much the best you can do visually is hope to get a silhouette on the horizon where the star field can highlight the background. A moonless surface attack could get a submarine extremely close but if they come in too fast wake can give away the position especially if there is phosphorous present.

During stormy weather ... well it simply depends on the weather. I have seen it stormy at night where visibility might have been 100 feet at best. I think the worst day storm or fog condition I saw put visibility at 100-200 yards. I have seen it blow 60knot winds so it was raining sideways but the sea perfectly calm and I have seen 12-20 foot seas with a bright sunny sky. Take every possible weather condition and throw them in a bag and pull out two and I bet you that you can see them happen at sea at the same time.

Sure we had radar but we still held manned lookouts. I found it to be a fun job and during the 4-8 watch there is nothing that beats those open ocean sunsets and sunrises.

I had another frustating experience with TMO. I tracked a lone merchant at night, had a perfect setup, raised my scope at 2,000 meters for a final check. The ship instantly spotted my scope and started taking evasive action. :/\\!!

Anyway, digging through the AI files, I think I found the problem. RFB and the stock game have a detection threshold of 120 seconds, which as I understand it means that even when all the conditions are present for the AI to spot you, it takes an initial 2 minutes before the AI reacts. In TMO, this time is reduced to 0.5 seconds, so the AI spots you instantly. The TMO "easier AI" mod has the same issue.

I am going to bump up the detection threshold back to 120 seconds and test it out.

Interesting. Let us know the results.

false alarm, turns out stock uses a detection time of 0.5 as well:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=111395

Based on my reading of the (visual) settings in the SIM.cfg file, the AI should not spot the periscope at all ?!? :hmmm:

there must be another setting that controls it.

Seems like the Mechants are better at detecting you than the IJN.

I contacted a group of heavy cruisers just south of Truk on Nov 3rd 1943 and after a 2 day chase that ended in the Bismark sea I'd managed to sink 5 of them,and didnt get detected by any of them until after I'd carried out my attack even though the 1st attack was in daylight with light fog and was around 1000 yds from the nearest one.

Later in the patrol I found an unescorted convoy of 6 Merchants in the Bismark sea. Easy pickings I thought, how wrong I was! Although it was similar conditions and my attack strategy was the same I couldn't get within 2000 yds before they detected me. Doesn't make sense sometimes.

I'm not complaining though, 5 Heavy Cruisers in one encounter is the stuff dreams are made of.

TMO 2.5
RSRDC for TMO
OTC for TMO 2.5
ISE v3
+ associated patches
100% realism