My old man was in the RAF during the war and he said they hated the u-boats (especially in the Caribbean) that they meted out vengeance like no other when they came upon one. I guess one has to experience war to have that kind of emotion.

I was aware of exactly one. A lot of u-boatmen went through hell, and so did a lot of their victims. Mainly that was because of the nature of war, and not war crimes. I feel sorry for all the merchant and naval seamen who died at the hands of the u-boats, but I also feel sorry for the 30,000+ who died horribly at the bottom of the ocean.

As far as cracks about my playing go, at least I'm not afraid to tell people who I really am and what I like to do. You could do the same in the 'Subsim Regulars' forum. :sunny:

im not quite sure what this is about. but, when the men who fought each other meet up 40-50 years after the war, they invariably get on well with each other - some strike up frienships that last for the rest of their lives - but most of all they come to see the folly of what they had been through.

as for uboat men shooting survivors, well, it did happen but at an absolute minority. i can only think of Heinz Eck. maybe there are others, but then the Pot begins to call the Kettle black.

as for Heinz Eck, if this is who SS is revering to, he was executed for his supposed crimes. when i read the details of his case it began to make me angry: the contradictions of both sides, the idea of Operational Neccessities is twisted to suite whoever needs it....

...and in the end with Eck it seemed to suite the British. Dwight R Messimer finishes his essay on Eck with the word Siegerjustiz. it suited the British. they had his cards marked from the begining of the trial...but you will have to read this essay in Silent Hunters. GERMAN U-BOAT COMMANDERS OF WORLD WAR II to make your own minds up.

Both great books. Only up to early 44 in the 2nd.

Regarding the above quote, you have to remember that it was dangerous for any allied ship to stop to pick up survivors, allied or axis, if there were U-Boats around. Since U-Boats, at least up to 44, often attacked in packs, it was SOP for allied warships to not stop for survivors if other U-boats were suspected to be around.

In dark time's there is always light.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/tv/comingup/sinkingofthelaconia/

I hope BBC make a good effort at portraying this event,

But just to reflect.

Ego, thanks VERY much for this link for U156 - what a lovely surprise:yeah:!!

I think he was sore that a lot of the focus in the post war period went to U-boats rather than the US operations in the pacific that he was a part of. I can understand that to a certain degree, although he fails to take into account that, by the time details of the sub campaign in the PTO became more widely known, U-boats had cemented their place in the public consciousness, the secrecy of the American campaign not having helped matters in that respect.

He fails repeatedly, if I remember rightly (it's been a few years since I last read any of his books,) to grasp that the threat of the German campaign only appears overblown in Hindsight, and that at the time it was considered by the British government to be one the graver threats to the war effort. He also doesn't seem willing to concede that the great successes the U-boats had against Britain in WW1 may have led to a further inflation of the threat in the public consciousness. In fact - again, if I remember right - he pretty much ignores the psychological effect that the German campaign had on the British public.

Thing is, He is actually right in a number of his conclusions but those conclusions are worth a lot less than they would have been if they had been made nearer the time, and, as others have said, it's difficult to concentrate on what he's saying sometimes with the constant sound of all those axes being ground in the background.

As for any debate on war crimes, I'm sure he mentions the infamous Mush Morton incident in 'Silent Victory', although I don't believe, for obvious reasons, it's covered to the same degree O' Kane gives it in 'Wahoo.'

Good books. Exhausting and painfully dry at times, but good never the less.

War is hell, for all involved, and it is a tragedy when it occurs at all. But I have to admit, I am not sickened by the losses endured by any arm of the 3rd reich, be it on land, air, or sea. The only part that i would say is "sickening" was the decision to keep throwing away lives in a pointless endeavor. That said, I have no hesitation in saying that I am glad the allies won, and beat Nazi Germany soundly. A victorious 3rd reich is an unthinkable alternative.