Mate I must be blind but I fail to see any HORIZONTAL line in the first scope picture you posted, claimed to be a japanese submarine one.:doh:

I have however an update about the modern japanese submarine periscopes: They use american kollmorgen periscopes, :damn: so any picture you'd eventually find from them will look like the US ones.

:har::har::wah::wah:

training movie 1941 L type submarine ?
 

gauges going up :

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/10/gauges2.jpg


sonar :

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/6268/sonar.jpg

Captain on periscope :

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/704...nperiscope.jpg


Periscope view (fake ?) :

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/8514/periview.jpg

compass :

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8374/compass.jpg


b

Periscope view 2 :

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/7472/periview2.jpg


As the view moves with the periscope, and the ship - a DD ? - comes into view, I'd say the graduations are genuine, they are on the scope.

so this really could be what at least one type of japanese scope looked like ?

the graduations on the scope allow the taking of measurements on the ships's masts thus the range.

Since all the views here are genuine instruments, why wouldn't the periscope be ?




video of L class submarine in training 1941 :

periscope, gauges etc...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3mSiHiR5gM


keltos

keltos

Keltos01:
Is it possible to get rid of these scale lines on the Uboat scope ?
:)

Yes, I answered on the other thread.

keltos

EXCELLENT stuff Keltos!!!

This video certainly shows a lot of interesting things about Japanese submarines :yeah:

I'm inclined to think that, as you say, all stuff depicted is genuine. This was obviously filmed inside a japanese submarine for propaganda/wartime film purpose.

Some quick notes about interesting things I see in the video:

- Depth planes seem to work only manually, no hydraulic system available? The wheels rotate easily and very fast, indicating a string gear reduction to allow easy movement. The hydroplane indicators are above the head of the operators, side by side, and in the video they move when the planes wheels are operated. You can notice that the operators are moving the planes in counterdirection, with the gauges actually following the respective movement correctly. However if you see in detail you can notice that actually they are DIVING -nose down, stern up-. This is probably just because of the film, not real operating.

-Depth gauge seems to be shallow depth one? Only 60 metres is not much...:hmmm: but then again japanese technicians didn't create depth charges for deep explosion, thinking US subs couldn't dive that deep, so it's reasonable to think theirs couldn't either. The interior scale in the depth gauge seems to be a vernier, for enhanced precision of the external one.

-There is a clinometer inside the depth gauge. The bubble is fully right as the sub noses up while raising to peri depth.

-The interiors of these submarines are VERY cramped, even in the large models.

-The periscope is apparently binocular, and you can see a gradation dented wheel on the left hand, above the handle. Probably for fine focusing. On the right side is a two positions lever, which is more than probably the zoom lever (low and high power).

The reduced size of the scope, the fact of being binocular (Which requires additional prisms inside) and the need of space to acomodate the two zooms lead me to think that there is NO double prism stadimeter inside, unlike what happens in US scopes (Those one trade binocular prism for stadimeter inside the housing). However, the dented wheel mentioned before could well be the double prism stadimeter if I'm wrong, but in that case I fail to see the readout for the results.

-The scope reticle seems authentic. I would not bet for a graduation in degrees, as each big mark is 5 and a small 1. If the scope lacks a double prism stadiameter as I suppose, the most reasonable thing is to suppose that the scale follows radians and not degrees, as that allows easy menthal calculations of distance as opposed to using degrees,

-The compass is labelled with conventional western lettering (N/S/E/W) but that doesn't mean it is not authentic; I have seen russian submarines uses compasses that have also exactly the same lettering despite the letters in the cyrilic alphabet not being coincident, nor the nomenclature for north/east/west/south.

-In the second periscope observation you can notice that the IWO on the left has a chronometer in his hands.

Well that's all for now, hope you find something useful in my comments :salute:

glad you agree on the scope :salute:

now I can mod it !!! a real IJN one ! :)

I will respond in details to your answer tomorrow, but the quality of the movie is so much better than the Gochin one I have (maybe a damaged copy ?)

there is a second movie, with parts that you see in Gochin, so maybe a lost part of it or what we call "rushes". will post part of it tomorrow as time allows
keltos
video of L class submarine in training 1941 :

periscope, gauges etc...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3mSiHiR5gM

Does this mean I can cancel that trip to Kure? :woot:

L type training movie 1941 periscope view (supposedly) :

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/7472/periview2.jpg
By keltos01 at 2009-03-09


You don't get off that easy !
please go to Kure, we need actual data, real confirmation that this could be an IJN scope reticle. They can give us that.

better : an actual picture taken through a type 88 periscope a bit like the US one here below
good : a sketch or blueprint of a type 88 periscope reticle.

I need you to go there, their website is so empty it makes me wanna cry ! not even an email address there !!!!!!

here are some pictures of the museum :
http://www.kankou.pref.hiroshima.jp/...kurephoto.html


Peabody and Ed low at J-aircraft think the periscope view is faked, Hunter thinks like I did that since everything in the movie is genuine, then why the periscope view wouldn't be ?

what do you think ?

keltos



american periscope views :

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/2779/snjuan.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/qu...pershots2.html

I can't see why it would be assumed to be faked. It has all the scales necessary to do the job, but it is clearly not a US or German scope (what did British scopes look like?) Also the film was made in 1941, so it's not like they would have had someone else's scope reticule available, so even if it was mocked up (which it doesn't look like) it would be based most likely on their real scopes.

So i'd go for this design, at present it is clearly your best bet

YATTA ! found one !
 

YATTA !!!!

found the real deal !!!


http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1839/022xrh.th.jpg
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7077

Major Walter Schmidt : shot with Canon IXY DIGITAL 900 IS at 2009-03-09

Kaiten Typ. 10 (prototype)
note the small size-must have been hell in there not to mention the fact that you were facing certian death.....
the latter 2 fotos show the periscope of the kaiten and what it looks like to look inside.


Rubenandthejets : get me more and better pictures of this one please !!!!
I also saw sub models etc.. so actually a good photo report that you would post as a new thread would be good.

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7077

google is hard to use sometimes ;) had to look up periscope view Kure to find it !!!! took me 2 darn weeks of looking on the web...

type 88 periscope :

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/265...mb0dsc0672.jpg
shot with DSC-L1 at 2009-03-09
http://www.pbase.com/takeda/image/83592287

keltos

that's pretty cool!

Keltos!

This last one is excellent :yeah: And it seems to confirm a good part of my previous comments:

First of all, the gradation is in 5 unit increments (1 big mark per 5 units) and not each 4 as in the US scopes

Second, the horizontal reticle is divided in degrees, as you can see the proper symbol above the "5". However, the vertical reticle is in my opinion divided in radians, and that was a common practice in military periscopes/telescopes for rangefinding when no stadimeter was available. German U-Boat periscopes also used that pattern. The horizontal is in turn divided in degrees because its use is for "lead aiming" and not for rangefinding, hence you go back to degrees because that's the unit you also use in the firing solution computation :shucks:

The only details I don't see now completely logic in the video are:

-Lack of any numbering.
-Exact same division for horizontal and vertical.

Both details are different in the periscope view you posted, but are not essential in any case.

If I were you I would however model the reticle you can positively point at as coming from japanese submarine:rock:

Update!!

Just checked the graphic and did some measurements, and I can confirm what I said above:

The vertical marks are mils, and the 10 mark is therefore approx at 6 degrees (Probably at the ideal figure of 5,75º), while the horizontal ones are degrees.

The vertical scale numbering in the larger marks -difficult to read, but not once you know what is there- is actually: 5,10,15,20 and 25 upwards and downwards from the centre.

The marks are calibrated for LOW power, as in german periscopes

The field of view from this scope at low power is around 40º

The zoom is unknown, but my bet goes for a 1,5x and 6x zoom respectively.

Good job :salute: