I never modded SH3 or SH4 but after playing SH3 and Enigma a bit, and seeing SH4's beautiful graphics and generally becoming more interested in subs (which takes time!), I was inspired to bring the best of Enigma (voice command) into SH4. First version is out and working well. So maybe more new people like me will come to the scene (I don't have the inclination to mess with physics, graphics, AI, etc. I leave that to more talented people.)

I think the key is that developing a sub addiction takes a bit of time, especially for younger folks. Now that SH4 1.3 is out and getting a generally positive response, more people might be drawn in. One reason I committed to doing this was the presence of all the other mods, so I also hope that they keep coming and improving. When I'm done with my voice command, I'll want to play an awesome game with it, and I'll need their mods for that. When I test things out in my stock configuration, I sink destroyers by just ramming into them, and they generally ignore me a lot longer than they should, the game doesn't seem like much fun when there's these constant breaks from reality and immersion.

On that subject, sh4speech is all about better immersion through voice command. My general rule is, if a task wasn't hands-on for the Captain, it won't be in my game either. And beyond the stadimeter, pointing at a spot on a map, and swiveling the periscopes, the Captain didn't really touch a whole lot, so I still have some work ahead of me... :) If you can bark orders and not feel like an idiot, it really adds a lot to the game. If you think voice recognition is horribly unreliable, try it, you'll be blown away. The accuracy amazes me still.

And none of the great modders for SH2 had much to do with SH3. New folks come along, the game is still shiny and new, and who knows what it's going to look like two years down the line?

Patience is everything.

Good points. Theres quite a few great mods that are made by people who never modded for Sh3. Realistically, i dont think its a good idea to count on the modders from Sh3 to be around long in general. Think about it, you spend Months, or years tooling around with one game, now you have to start over and do it all over again?! Yeah, right.... :roll:

Modding this game is not hard. Once you learn the file structure and what files do what, your in a position to change most annoyances.

You know, i woudlnt burn out so quickly and want to quit if i wasnt doing so much by myself. I'd love to just poke at a single problem, focus on it, kick it around for a couple weeks or months, off and on as time allowed. But since i chose to make a modpack, i don't have that luxury. I have a pressing need to "move on to the next item" sort of thing.

I have often thought about making a formal "team". Asking for volunteers, but i havent for many reasons:

1.) I dont want to alienate anyone.

2.) I like modding discussions in the open. A team often has a tendency to, (and sometimes a need to), discuss in private. I dislike this because it keeps knowledge and know how from the public, and the mod forum no longer an open forum. I dont want to form a cliche and factionalize the community, or set the foundations for a future mod war.

3.) Formal team means Commitment. Just how much commitment left do i have to give? I dont know.

Maybe theres another way? I dunno. An open agreement to work on the same collective project? But then comes an issue of "vision", "goals" and "intent". You have to pursue a singular goal, if you can't the end result will be watered down and dilluted.

When I was plugging alone on my campaign at my own pace, and attacking other things as I felt like it, it was entirely fun. To the extent I feel pressured to get somethign out the door quickly, it becomes "work."

Having all kinds of people use my campaign in TM indeed made it more on the work side because I hated to have a crappy camapign used by many people---and I do consider what I have beta because it doesn't match my vision for it by a long shot yet.

Getting a "good enough" version out there for TM frees me to work at my own pace again, and I'll happily try and modularize it when it's dialed in for TM.

I like that whole concept of modules, frankly. Different people have different interests.

To the extent you can muck around for fun, it's fun. As soon as you are compelled to "support" stuff it becomes work.

As for secrets.. I have a post waiting to be made regarding new camapign stuff, but it's fun to keep it a little on the hush hush side since they are fun things that are more fun for not knowing ahead of time exactly what they are.

tater

Sorry man, i didnt mean to put you on the spot. I just had no idea that TM would gain in such popularity. Its that popularity, that really turns the whole thing into a job.

No worries, I can go back to my normal pace already. :D

I'll still go the extra step of making a TM version once I get a version that is less of a minor internal build. That's easy.

I suppose the work nature of it is tempered by the fun of having people actually enjoy it. It's a balance, and my end is clearly not on the heavy lifting side.

Besides, I wouldn't have realized the distinction before with 5-6 people playing the campaign, lol.

<S>

tater

I know that alot more can be done with this game but I think it is great with all the current mods. What you guys have done with it is incredible. I had never played sub sim games before and bought the download version on a whim. Hated it at first, constant CTD's and so on but I found this site and the great mods and I am addicted to it now. I play most every day and look forward to any new mods that might come out but if they don't, its still a good game. Modders make it a great game!:yep: :yep: :yep:

I wouldn't say it's "giving up" - that sounds a tad bit harsh. Beery did the same with SH3 - found another interest after releasing RUb 1.45 despite players wanting "more". Ducimus came and went and came back again at least once every four-six weeks.

This isn't meant to be critical, it's just to point out that this is what happens, and it's not necessarily "giving up" - moreso just creative ebb and flow.

Besides, there are other modders here who have picked up the torch and are running with it, most without having previous modding experience. Any one of these guys could be the next "super modder". They just need time to gain experience; remember, the guys who have developed the first SH4 modpacks have already gained that experience through modding other games, hence why they hit the ground running so fast. Just give others time.

You know, I wouldn't want that. GWX is successful because everyone working on it has some passion for the U-boat war. That passion is what defines the quality. I seriously doubt that the remaining GWX modders could work up the same passion for SH4 (let alone even have an interest in SH4) as a) they have for SH3 and b) some of the modders here already have. I think those who could have, are already here (ie Boris).

And as others have said, this wouldn't be a panacea for all that ails you - the modders would need to scrap their German u-boat memories and build up, in many instances from scratch, knowledge in US submarine tactics and warfare. You'd be looking at another year before you saw anything even remotely like a Pacific version of GWX. By then, well, you'll have TM3.2, LOL! I think the best you'll get from these guys is a porting over of the u-boat war into SH4.

But if I may pass an observation, what I think SH4 does need are:

1. good modellers - ones that are keen on not just porting units over from SH3, but building new ones.

2. researchers that will pick these units up and integrate them *historically* into SH4. Atm I've seen a plethora of SH3 units ported across and thrown anywhere, with no regard given to their actual use, scripting, nationality, integration etc. There's been some modest attempt to rectify this - I recall a promising Dutch "alignment" mod under development which seems to have died - but I'm not sure that anyone has taken the bull by the horns and taken the challenge on (tater, pls say I'm wrong).

Anyway, my point is, give it time, you'll start to see natural paths being created between different modders and bigger creations will flow from there.

I'm sure you'll find that it goes both ways. ;)

Well said, jscones.

I agree about the models, I utterly lack the skils required, which I wish wasn't true. Funy you mentioned the sh3 ports, I DLed them, compared what they looked like to my ONI 208-J manual, and decided not one of them looked like a single RL japanese merchant and removed the mod, lol.

Very well put, Hitman. I agree with you. :up:







tambor198 :D

I know i come and go alot, but i really am done this time. The real reason is ive been thinking really long and hard about a career change for awhile now. I'll have to act on that soon (IE, "**** or get off the pot").

In sum, ive been where i am for 7 years, making 13 bucks an hour. Im going nowhere, staring at the same cube walls every day, and something has to change. As insane as it sounds, i ve been thinking about going into trucking. At least then ill be going somewhere (literally) and making a bit more money then i do now. Its not just a job, but a lifestyle change, and i very much doubt ill have time for computer games. Well except maybe when waiting to get unloaded which i hear can take up to 40 hours in some places :roll:, but ya, you bet ill be getting a laptop with SH4 and TM 1.5 on it.

If you are late on a truck delivery, you can wait days to have your load unloaded... that time will be spent in a rented space like a hotel or whatever they call them in the U.S. (long haul, not sure about inter-state)

I suggest you get ready to fix your modding itch while sitting around waiting :up:

There have been some new faces in the mods section for SH4, some seem at ease making mods, others are awkward and new... Lets learn the lessons from Scones and others and try and be a bit more positive with the new crew. People adding remarks in mods discussion like 'I dont like it' with no reason given needs to be avoided. Maybe a moderator could sometimes slip in their and delete crap like that, it may go a long way to maintaining a positive atmosphere. Users takeing some sort of responsible attitude to posting would be even better.

In response to the amount of 'SUPER' mods available, its early days, the 1.3 patch is fairly new. As a user I have spent the last 6 or 7 days trawling and downloading mods, swapping mods and finding compatible and incompatible mods has been keeping me more than busy. During this time it has become obvious some Modders are putting their heads together in response to peoples constructive comments.

To sum up, I think it is a bit early to think nothing will happen.. Like it was said earlier, this game is still shiny and new.

Good luck with that Ducimus. Why not join the Navy submarine force? You seem to know quite a lot due to this heavy modding:lol: .

I don't know. I think things will pick up eventually. I was worried like this when Dangerous Waters came out. The early days we didn't see alot of modding going on like the love that was given to Sub Command with the SCXIIc project. But eventually Luftwolf and Amizaur took up the challenge and gave us the amazing LWAMI mod which seems to be a constant evolution. So far SH4 has some good modding out there. No GWX style mods yet, but Trigger Maru adds a whole lot of stuff into this game. I don't know, but it doesn't look like the modders have given up on anything. Work like this takes time. In the meantime, grab a cold one, and sink them skimmers.