It is finally obvious to me a reasonable solution is not desired.

When Jason is compared to Woodward and Bernstein by arranging the post that support the desires of the mob, and only them, how can logic have any place.
When no one prefers to have a few representatives resolve this away from this flame war (that is not a flame war) but insist on harmonized bashing as the way for satisfaction, there is no point in denying that no more can be said.

I do hope others are working outside this witch hunt to resolve this.

Too bad, as if this mod could have been done correctly it would have increased the size of this community.
X-1 may be to blame for a lot. But, those that overreacted did the real damage.

You may now all be of one accord; the choir is ready for more sermons.

Wulfmann

Wulfmann, I appreciate your opines on this subject, and I love to hear an opposite point of view; it makes me think. However, I do not appreciate your insinuations that, because I support the modders here on this one, that I'm somehow part of a foaming-at-the-mouth-lynch-mob or a lemming. It also does little to reinforce your assertion that you are in the middle. This is not a slight, insult, or anything else but me telling you what your posts are saying to me.

The fact is there is more than enough evidence to show that X1 attempted to exploit other people's hard work for monetary gain. I don't know that I, myself, can ever trust people who have dmeonstrated this type of morality.

H is Haldeman...

OK then... let me make it official.

The personal attacks, insinuated or otherwise, on BOTH sides, stop here and now.

I have said it countless times before, but it needs saying here... debate, argue, illuminate and elucidate as much as you want.... but do it in a respectful manner.

I guess there is one silver lining to all of this. At least everyone has stopped complaining about Starforce.

JCC

Update 07/28: I learned that X1 in cooperation with 'Reggie' ist still playing the same foul game...they are still collecting new mods and including them to their Scamware (c), hoping the author will not notice it.

And also today I was informed by an gfx artist who wondered why he saw something he did for combatplanes initially now in SeaScam (c). AFTER he complained he was offered a free copy and a 'small amount of money' (quote from the shady guy acting as mod dealer of X1).

(Before *anyone* :D is going through the roof again: I got permission by the gfx guy to tell the basic facts. I have more details plus rather private stuff on file, but I won't make them public.)


I AGAIN STRONGLY encourage all modders to include a few lines legaleese in their readmes, if they don't want their work exploited commercially by the Canadian-German ScamAlliance (c)

How do you know they are currently still "adding" mods to the game without consent?

Because I have good contacts and ~ 15 new mails per hour referring to this issue alone

Well, on the one hand we have 'the mob' - a group of folks who are justifiably upset about the fact that an unscrupulous businessman and his cronies tried to make money from the mob's hard work. On the other hand, we have you, who apparently fails to see how X1 Software is at fault in any way. Your position, not ours, is the illogical one, since it takes as its basis the idea that X1 is blameless because they are trying to put right what they did wrong. By that logic, a jewel thief would be blameless if he was caught while trying to give a diamond necklace back to its original owner. Not that I'm by any means convinced that X1 is trying to do the right thing. My fellow mod-makers inform me that indeed they are not.

In short, you are prepared to believe anything that X1 & Co. say. You are prepared to believe nothing that 'the mob' says. How is that taking the middle ground? A person taking the middle ground would weigh evidence carefully and come up with the most reasonable result. What you have done is to play devil's advocate - attempting to defend X1 from any attack, using whatever means are likely to cloud over the issue, including sophistry such as your 'repentent jewel thief' argument, and ad-hominem attacks such as calling us 'the mob'.

I think he just can't be bothered to read anything and is trying to start a flame war. He probably likes the attention gained from being the odd one out.

Wulfman has been told the facts countless times, but he ignores them consequently. He's insulting and generalizing the whole community by comparing them with Nazi's, KKK, etc, or offend the community by calling them "mob". Being a moderator myself, I can assure you that his unreasonable Nazi-comparisons alone would have warranted an immediate and permanent ban on my board without any warning! I don't see how we can discuss the topic when some guy doesn't cease to offend us with obvious trolling!

I suspect there's an X1/Starforce link somehow. :-j

You coming out of the closet?!?!?!?!!?!?!?! :huh:

J/K!!!!!!!

Yup, If he would be on the payroll of X1 I could understand his postings, but as he's not I'm really wondering...

I really can't agree that the Subsim community has done more harn than X1.Fact is they STOLE and attempted to CHEAT the modders,by getting paid for their work and not paying or even acknowleging them and their hard work.If X1 had been upfront and asked EVERY modder for their permission to sell their work and offer to pay them for it..then none of this would have happened.Instead they stole,then lied.and then AFTER the fact they tried to help their position by saying"Oh yeah..we're going to take all the mods we don't have permission out"and after all the lies we're supposed to believe them?It's a tough pill to swollow.
Is this a witch hunt? Oh heck no...a witch hunt has no basis in fact,this however is based totally on fact.again they(and no I won't be politically correct)STOLE.they LIED,they tried to decieve not only people here but everywhere.
I wish they had done things different and maybe everyone could have come out ahead.Will they find a sympathic ear here? I doubt it seriously.But lets wait and see.
X1 has nobody to blame for all this but themselves,and NO they're NOT going to be forgiven by just senting a message boy around saying"oh we messed up,and yes we lied, but this time we're telling the truth"

Hello again, Wulfmann :up:

I've read your posts here with interest, but seriously: how can you continue to give the benefit of doubt to people who have resorted to threats, insults, postings of pornographic links, etc?

You have said that a reasonable solution is not desired here - show me a reasonable solution, and I'll gladly consider it.

Personally, I'm at a loss as to what such a reasonable solution could be, given X1'a attitude, when confronted with their wrongdoing :doh:

I don't believe in witch hunts. But I do believe that a community and its modders have a right to defend themselves against piracy of their work.

The detective work has been done, the facts are there to see (read the UBI forum).

If these people had held up their hands and said "fair enough - you've got us bang to rights - we're sorry", a reasonable solution might have been attained.

They did not, and now the time for any such resolution has long gone.

I personally feel that having read through the posts both here and at UBI, you can't reason with them, and I believe that your desire to defend what has now been shown to be the indefensible, is misguided.

Sorry, mate, but that's how I feel, and that's how the majority of members and modders that make up this community feel, and your anologies of witch-hunts, cross-burnings only adds insult to our injury.

Reasonable solutions are no longer possible, and in any case, any solution to this one is probably out of our hands: the final decision on what to do about this inept, dishonest company that is X1 lies with UBISoft and Matrix.

I hope they reach their decision soon, so that we can all return to some sort of normality.

Hawkers :up:

As a moderator myself, I often wonder if it might be fun to tone down such ad-hominem attacks so that they appear comical. I might try that - say changing 'nazis' into 'nice guys', or just editing out all such sophistries. It might be fun. I'll have to try that. Of course the chance rarely comes up on my forums - it only ever seems to be the forums that I don't moderate that attract the trolls. :down:

This is from 'Ossi', as of today'

Soundmod by Incognito Soundworks, with further mods by Northern Digital

Contact Mod by Fletcher

Hi-res subs by Sean Gilleran

U-boat Interior by Ship Hunter

DD Fix by Jungman

Radiolog by Irishred, further mods by CombatPlanes

Resupply by SANSAL

I think this his will be the final . '


Please note that he's only 'thinking' that the list above is the complete one - he also warns that the 'trial version' on the open server contained 'a very dangerous Virus' and that 'we had to close the server because of that virus'.

:rotfl:

Forget Wolfie, he's merely a distraction.

Back to the issue at hand, terrapin, are you unable to reveal which new mods they are adding?

Edit: obviously not, thanks for list.

Also, I've heard the campaign layer of seewolves is severely lacking and badly built. Apparently the promised number of new bases is not there and many things are not integrated properly.

I have heard it looks amaturish and incomplete. The dunkirk evac is missing, dodgy D-Day stuff (evolve from entry date not used), No waypoints for most..

It sounds a mess, I'll have to look at it myself...:)

Frugal (http://frugalsworld.com) once had a script turning bad words completely upside down...it was REALLY funny
:)

Yeah, right. Let me give a quick translation of that bit:

Radiolog by Irishred. Further mods by Irishred, but we agreed not to use them, so we'll just say they're ours.

This is the reality. If they don't get permission for something they want, they just take it anyway and claim it's their own work.