Is 1-2 big ships per patroll good?

[iven72]

I am using the VIIB and when attacking the larger ships they take somtimes 4 or m ore trrpedos to sink is that average? I do use the targeting computer and GW mod. somtimes even the small ships take 2-3 torpedos. Also have you had problems getting credit for sunk ships? I had one on more than one occasion where its dead in the water 3/4 sunk I come back later after the weather calms down to finish it with the deack gun and its gone.

[Respenus]

The GW mod has an excellent damage mod. Some say even too good. Smaller ships should go down with 1-2 fish, bigger ones need more 2-4, depending on which and where you hit them. Tankers usually need 1 torpedo, again depending on where you hit it.

If you use your external camera, always go chech if the screws are turning! If they are, wait for the boat to sink and if they aren't, you can go hunt others.

It's preferable that you stay near a damaged ship as you will have positive confirmation that she sunk.

You do know it sometimes took hours for ships to sink!

[AVGWarhawk]

GW makes sinking the ships harder than the out of box version. The small tramp steamers are just about indestructable. I usually leave them alone because you do not get a whole lot of tonnage for them and waste torps for it. :nope: As for big ships, yep 2-3 torps to send them down. Sometimes you get lucky and nail it with one torp. As long as you see "she is going down' you should get credit. I did however did not get credit for a kill because my bout was not in visual contact at the time it went down.:cry: I just came off a patrol in the VIIB and have 4 ships sunk. One by cannon fire...small tramp steamer just for fun:yep:

[Warmonger]

With TGW 1.1 and a VII type boat I usually come home with 4-6 sunk ships. Just learn to aim for vital spots and, especially in convoy attacks (I like to spread out my torps one per ship, hoping for lucky shots and stragglers) accept ships which are damaged only.

[Jimbuna]

Hi AVG...was wondering how you find 'small tankers' ? IMO there just like you describe the tramps (indestructable) :hmm:

[AVGWarhawk]

Hi AVG...was wondering how you find 'small tankers' ? IMO there just like you describe the tramps (indestructable) :hmm:
To be honest, I do not see lone tankers. I have seen plenty of tankers in convoys. They seem to go down in 1-2 hits. Again, it all depends on were you hit them. Sometimes the ammo bunker is your first hit on some ships and up she goes! I think if you hit the dead middle of the tanker she will split in two. I normally send out two torps to do the job on the large ships. I keep my spread tight so both torps hit and I hit different parts of the ship so it will flood in both ends.

[Shikkapow]

How do you adjust the aiming point if you use the automatic TDC?
I don't use the manual input and don't understand how to adjust the aimpoint if using auto, I always seem to hit dead center...

[mookiemookie]

How do you adjust the aiming point if you use the automatic TDC?
I don't use the manual input and don't understand how to adjust the aimpoint if using auto, I always seem to hit dead center...

Don't use the lock feature (hotkey: "L") when putting a ship in your sights. Your torpedo will go wherever the periscope crosshairs are. On tankers, it's good to aim just directly in front of the stack.

To be honest, I do not see lone tankers. I have seen plenty of tankers in convoys.

In the middle of the Atlantic, they're hard to find. Approaching the English Channel, the North Channel, over on the U.S. east coast or in the Caribbean you see them occasionally. A good sign that you have one, or something equally as juicy is if you get a contact update where it shows the ship's speed as medium or fast.

[AVGWarhawk]

How do you adjust the aiming point if you use the automatic TDC?
I don't use the manual input and don't understand how to adjust the aimpoint if using auto, I always seem to hit dead center...


I use weapon officer assist and play at 79%...outside views on for the eye candy. You can aim were you want with just the assist. If you lock the target it will always go to the center of the merchant. Unlock and you can aim manually. Also, the compressed air torpedos you can set the speed. I always get to within in 1500m for my solution. With that said, the fast torpedo will hit in the bow area, medium speed in the middle and slow speed will hit the screws. Like I said, I always send out two in a close spread so both hit, one in the bow and one in the stern.

[P_Funk]

The targeting computer is a very complex mistress. One thing that you must overcome conceptually is that the computer doesn't really target the merchant. What it does is take into account the information as to the ship's speed and course and such which you input. It then calculates how much a torpedo which you fire would have to lead the target in order to score a hit. So wherever you point the crosshair the computer is always assuming that is where the target is. This means that if your numbers are accurate pointing at specific parts of the ship will score a hit there. The locking feature is merely something of convenience.

It also occurs to me that this target lock button we all use seems to be impossible to have been created back then. These days computers use radar or heat detection or something of the like to track targets. Back then there was no such potential for automated tracking. So am I right in assuming that this "Lock" feature is a gameplay conceit from the developers created to ease the overload of players set with doing all the work of a submarine?

Lastly I like the very tough damage model of GW. Unlike before now you actually have to make decisions as to who to engage. Small merchants are no longer simply 1 hit kills. Every attack is now a considered investment of your U-boat's offensive potential which is limited. GW is succeeding in not only making a U-boat or a merchant behave as it should but is actually making us ourselves THINK more like a real captain.:rock:

[_Seth_]

It also occurs to me that this target lock button we all use seems to be impossible to have been created back then. These days computers use radar or heat detection or something of the like to track targets. Back then there was no such potential for automated tracking. So am I right in assuming that this "Lock" feature is a gameplay conceit from the developers created to ease the overload of players set with doing all the work of a submarine?

i Agree with you: I think the target lock button is intended to help newbie players with targeting, and its not historically correct. I remember using it myself when i bought the game, and even now i sometimes use it . Without it i probably wouldnt be playing SHIII today. But its much cooler to play "real-stuff" anyway!

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

The targeting computer is a very complex mistress. One thing that you must overcome conceptually is that the computer doesn't really target the merchant. What it does is take into account the information as to the ship's speed and course and such which you input. It then calculates how much a torpedo which you fire would have to lead the target in order to score a hit. So wherever you point the crosshair the computer is always assuming that is where the target is. This means that if your numbers are accurate pointing at specific parts of the ship will score a hit there. The locking feature is merely something of convenience.

It also occurs to me that this target lock button we all use seems to be impossible to have been created back then. These days computers use radar or heat detection or something of the like to track targets. Back then there was no such potential for automated tracking. So am I right in assuming that this "Lock" feature is a gameplay conceit from the developers created to ease the overload of players set with doing all the work of a submarine?

Lastly I like the very tough damage model of GW. Unlike before now you actually have to make decisions as to who to engage. Small merchants are no longer simply 1 hit kills. Every attack is now a considered investment of your U-boat's offensive potential which is limited. GW is succeeding in not only making a U-boat or a merchant behave as it should but is actually making us ourselves THINK more like a real captain.:rock:

I believe the lock feature is simply a convenience. It certainly wasn't something found then. Then again, you had quite a few people involved in targeting.

Not sure exactly how it was in a U-boat, but US sub's had a Torpedo Fire Control Party. One example of a US WWII Torpedo Fire Control Party is: approach officer, attack and sonar coordinator, TDC operator, assistant TDC operator, navigational plotter, periscope assistant, sonar plotter, sonar plot recorder, 3 sonar operators, ST radar operator, firing key operator, gyro angle setters, SS radar operator, SV radar operator and TBT operator.*

All things considered, I don't think it's really 'cheating' to have a lock button to help us Kaluens out. ;)

*www.hnsa.org/doc/attack/

[Shikkapow]

The targeting computer is a very complex mistress. One thing that you must overcome conceptually is that the computer doesn't really target the merchant. What it does is take into account the information as to the ship's speed and course and such which you input. It then calculates how much a torpedo which you fire would have to lead the target in order to score a hit. So wherever you point the crosshair the computer is always assuming that is where the target is. This means that if your numbers are accurate pointing at specific parts of the ship will score a hit there. The locking feature is merely something of convenience.

No kidding, I thought that the computer did not take in the info from the periscope unless it was locked. ( I understand that that is merely a 2004 rendition of technology, not 1940's)
That opens up a whole new world.

Thanks

[AVGWarhawk]

Convience for sure. Think about it. You at the scope calling out the AOB, speed, course. Your TDC man making the adjustments. In the this game you cannot not call out the figures. So the lock acts as the voice command. This is why I use weapons officer assist so he can dial in the figures. It gets to be to much without assist.

[andy_311]

Personnally I wouldn't use the auto targeting (if you use it ) aim for the engine room or the fuel bunker it does work but it doesn't take 2-4 fish to take out a C3 or a T3 if you do it right she will go down in 1 shot but not all of them be paiteint.

[Dantenoc]

Convience for sure. Think about it. You at the scope calling out the AOB, speed, course. Your TDC man making the adjustments. In the this game you cannot not call out the figures. So the lock acts as the voice command. This is why I use weapons officer assist so he can dial in the figures. It gets to be to much without assist.

Everytime you click on the checkmark on the notepad, it will (unaudibly) call that info to the TDC. The "lock on" feature is independant of this.

The periscope is "wired" into the TDC and will update the "bearing to target" in real time... again, independently of wether your "locked on" to something or are just swiveling your periscope around pointing at thin air. Here's the magical part: as your "bearing to target" is updated in real time by swiveling the scope around, the computer recalculates the AoB setting to compensate for your changing viewpoint. For this said recalculation the computer assumes that whatever your looking at is in your crosshairs. Speed is maintained constant and distance is unfortunately not recalculated in real time, so you might want to "call out" updates on that one... but be sure to clear the notepad of all other information, otherwise it will most probably screw up your AoB (the value leftover on the notepad was valid at some point, but not anymore, and clicking on the notepad with that value still there will force said bogus value in the TDC)

[AVGWarhawk]

Correct! Every value must be erased and fresh one entered on every vessel targeted.In simpler terms as the British called it 'is was' only German engineering turned the mathmatical 'is was' into a real time ever changing reality of the torpedo path. Therefore the British boats had to basically aim the boat using 'is was' were the German TDC was done mechanically and these value fed into the guidance system of the torpedo. So clear the pad or the TDC will be using the old values. Yes,one well placed torp on a liberty ship will break it in two as well as C2 and C3. Normally I get to within 1500m for my solution because you are close enough to account for any small miscalculation using the scope or UZO...unless you do some outlandish miscalculation! I generally find that incorrect AOB can cause a major miss so I attempt to make that bit of information as correct as possible. I always manually dial in the speed of target on the TDC...basically the merchants are doing 7 knots. I find using the stop watch gives outlandish speeds. I never use it.

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

I find using the stop watch gives outlandish speeds. I never use it.

The biggest drawback with the stopwatch-speed calculation is that in order for speed to be accurately calculated your U-boat must be at dead stop and your target at 90 degrees AoB. As the AoB becomes more acute, then speed will seem slower; at 0 or 180 it'll appear 0 knots. And since the speed calculation is essentially using trigonometry to calculate speed, if your U-boat is moving at all that buggers up the calculation too.

[P_Funk]

I find using the stop watch gives outlandish speeds. I never use it.
The biggest drawback with the stopwatch-speed calculation is that in order for speed to be accurately calculated your U-boat must be at dead stop and your target at 90 degrees AoB. As the AoB becomes more acute, then speed will seem slower; at 0 or 180 it'll appear 0 knots. And since the speed calculation is essentially using trigonometry to calculate speed, if your U-boat is moving at all that buggers up the calculation too.

I dunno about you guys but I ONLY use the Stopwatch with the whole Wazoo tracking method. Unless you guys are referring to the notepad speed thing that doesn't work very well.

[The Munster]

I am using the VIIB and when attacking the larger ships they take somtimes 4 or m ore trrpedos to sink is that average? I do use the targeting computer and GW mod. somtimes even the small ships take 2-3 torpedos. Also have you had problems getting credit for sunk ships? I had one on more than one occasion where its dead in the water 3/4 sunk I come back later after the weather calms down to finish it with the deack gun and its gone.

Hi, what has happened is you have gone too far from the ship; the ship 'revives' itself then goes on it's merry way. The solution is to either go to periscope depth then get a card school going or play 'I-spy' with the Crew [I spy with my little eye something beginning with 'S']. The other option, which I haven't tried but supposed to work is to stay on surface then go down to Ahead Slow then raise the TC and circle the sinking ship until it goes down completely.

I always wait until I get the 'enemy unit destroyed' caption and/or the red sunk ship on the map before I carry on.

[AVGWarhawk]

I find using the stop watch gives outlandish speeds. I never use it.
The biggest drawback with the stopwatch-speed calculation is that in order for speed to be accurately calculated your U-boat must be at dead stop and your target at 90 degrees AoB. As the AoB becomes more acute, then speed will seem slower; at 0 or 180 it'll appear 0 knots. And since the speed calculation is essentially using trigonometry to calculate speed, if your U-boat is moving at all that buggers up the calculation too.
I dunno about you guys but I ONLY use the Stopwatch with the whole Wazoo tracking method. Unless you guys are referring to the notepad speed thing that doesn't work very well.

The notepad speed does not work well in my view. If you are at a dead stop and make the calculations it might work ok. Other than that, most merchants a making 7 kts and I dial that in manually on the TDC...it is more shoot from the hip;) than anything but if I'm in 1500m or less, any small varience in speed makes no difference. Sometimes you get that fast convoy making 10-14 kts so I just make my best guess and I do that by watching how fast the scope or uzo is moving. Am I in the 100k club as a result....nope but then again I was not attempting to get into the club.:D So I average 3-4 in my VII sometimes 5-6 if I'm getting the one torp kills.;)

[Perseus]

One torp, two torps, three torps...? :nope:

I had a little encounter y'day with a lone C3 cargo. Got myself into a superb firing position, set tubes to 'salvo' and jammed three eels right into its starboard side. BOOM-BOOM-BOOM.

Stopped engines, waited. And waited. OK, wait some more. Dammit! Set time compression to 32. OK, 128 then. Tick-tick-tick... Nothing.

Darn. OK, another eel at broadside. BOOM. Waited. Waited. Waited, etc.
What the hell...!? OK, TWO EELS MORE THEN!!!

BOOM-BOOM.

Tick-tick-tick...

:huh:

Then I'd had enough. Fired TWO MORE eels and only then did the final "She's going down!" come through. Of course, by that time, sonarman was going NUTS about the high-pitched screws of three destroyers moving in at high speed :stare:

In total I spent nearly a full 24 hrs on one C3 and wasted 8 eels. Fortunately I was relatively close to France so sailed back to St Nazaire and start a new mission.

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

One torp, two torps, three torps...? :nope:

I had a little encounter y'day with a lone C3 cargo. Got myself into a superb firing position, set tubes to 'salvo' and jammed three eels right into its starboard side. BOOM-BOOM-BOOM.

Stopped engines, waited. And waited. OK, wait some more. Dammit! Set time compression to 32. OK, 128 then. Tick-tick-tick... Nothing.

Darn. OK, another eel at broadside. BOOM. Waited. Waited. Waited, etc.
What the hell...!? OK, TWO EELS MORE THEN!!!

BOOM-BOOM.

Tick-tick-tick...

:huh:

Then I'd had enough. Fired TWO MORE eels and only then did the final "She's going down!" come through. Of course, by that time, sonarman was going NUTS about the high-pitched screws of three destroyers moving in at high speed :stare:

In total I spent nearly a full 24 hrs on one C3 and wasted 8 eels. Fortunately I was relatively close to France so sailed back to St Nazaire and start a new mission.

It isn't necessarily how many torpedoes you fire, as it is where they hit. If you're using auto-targetting and just keep hitting the center of the ship, it doesn't help a lot. Try (if you haven't already) evenly distributing the impacts. Also try and target the critical hit areas: engine room and fuel bunkers.

[mookiemookie]

I like to put one just in front of the bridge on C3 cargos. Like right where the bridge ends and the cranes are. Set it to 3.5m depth and use impact triggers. Makes a nice big boom more often than not.

[AVGWarhawk]

One torp, two torps, three torps...? :nope:

I had a little encounter y'day with a lone C3 cargo. Got myself into a superb firing position, set tubes to 'salvo' and jammed three eels right into its starboard side. BOOM-BOOM-BOOM.

Stopped engines, waited. And waited. OK, wait some more. Dammit! Set time compression to 32. OK, 128 then. Tick-tick-tick... Nothing.

Darn. OK, another eel at broadside. BOOM. Waited. Waited. Waited, etc.
What the hell...!? OK, TWO EELS MORE THEN!!!

BOOM-BOOM.

Tick-tick-tick...

:huh:

Then I'd had enough. Fired TWO MORE eels and only then did the final "She's going down!" come through. Of course, by that time, sonarman was going NUTS about the high-pitched screws of three destroyers moving in at high speed :stare:

In total I spent nearly a full 24 hrs on one C3 and wasted 8 eels. Fortunately I was relatively close to France so sailed back to St Nazaire and start a new mission.
It isn't necessarily how many torpedoes you fire, as it is where they hit. If you're using auto-targetting and just keep hitting the center of the ship, it doesn't help a lot. Try (if you haven't already) evenly distributing the impacts. Also try and target the critical hit areas: engine room and fuel bunkers.



Yep, got to hole each part of the ship:yep:

[Laffertytig]

someone said " Your torpedo will go wherever the periscope crosshairs are"

does the tdc automatically update WHENEVER u move the scope oe must u move the scope then click the tick button to update it?

[AVGWarhawk]

I believe you have to hit the check mark!

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

I like to put one just in front of the bridge on C3 cargos. Like right where the bridge ends and the cranes are. Set it to 3.5m depth and use impact triggers. Makes a nice big boom more often than not.

That's because that's where its fuel bunker is located, and you're running the right depth to hit it smack daub. Makes fer a purty fireball. :D

The fuel bunker is one of several 'critical hit' locations. Some examples are the fuel bunkers, engine room, ammo bunker, keel, steering and propulsion. Those locations will appear in the recognition manual as selectable boxes when certain criteria* are met:

You have to be within a certain minimum range (with the stock game it seems to be 500 meters, and with GW 1 km; not sure about NYGM), with an AoB around 80 - 100 degrees, and a bearing of 0 +/- 30 degrees (180 +/- 30 degrees for stern targeting).

In other words, near-perfect targeting position.

If you are locked onto the target, have the manual open to the correct ship type/class (easiest way is to click 'ship' at the upper left of the notepad; that automatically will open the recognition manual to the correct nationality and ship type) and meet the above criteria, you will notice odd little boxes appear superimposed on the ship. Resting your cursor atop them will show you what it is (ex. engine room, fuel bunker); clicking it will shadow-light it, and aim your torpedo there automatically. You're virtually guarenteed a hit under those conditions (unless you forget to open the outer door first, which delays firing and throws off the computation).

I think it's roughly 50-50 with the fuel bunker whether the ship explodes or not. But it definitely greatly improves your chances for a 1-fish kill.

There is a mod out there (I think it's called the merchant vunerability mod) that, when installed, color-codes the ships and always shows the appropriate sweet spots. Just be forewarned: just because the mod shows them, it doesn't permit you automatically [I]targeting them. You still need to be in the right range and position for those boxes to appear. But what the mod does do is help you determine where to try manually targetting your torpedoes for maximum effect.




*I'm not positive about the exact numbers, but from in-game experience (or lack thereof? :doh: )

[mookiemookie]

I like to put one just in front of the bridge on C3 cargos. Like right where the bridge ends and the cranes are. Set it to 3.5m depth and use impact triggers. Makes a nice big boom more often than not.
There is a mod out there (I think it's called the merchant vunerability mod) that, when installed, color-codes the ships and always shows the appropriate sweet spots. Just be forewarned: just because the mod shows them, it doesn't permit you automatically targeting them. You still need to be in the right range and position for those boxes to appear. But what the mod does do is help you determine where to try manually targetting your torpedoes for maximum effect.


Oh I know exactly what I'm doing when I aim for that spot. :arrgh!: I have that mod installed and I love it. Sure it's probably a little bit of cheating, but hey, I'm sure captains knew where these areas of a ship were. hee hee hee...

[GT182]

I have the Full Vunerability mod installed and on just a few occasions have I been able to click on a "sweet spot" and have it work. Ususally it's the fuel bunker but that puts them down for merchants. Trying to use the ammo bunker or engine room on a warship never seems to work. I can click on the ammo bunker on the ship or in the top header above it but nothing happens. When it does work tho the icon for the merchant's fuel bunker turns a darker red. Keep in mind I use the impact pistol and I'm at AOB as close to 90 degress as I can get.

BTW... even sinking only one ship on patrol is better than none.

[P_Funk]

someone said " Your torpedo will go wherever the periscope crosshairs are"

does the tdc automatically update WHENEVER u move the scope oe must u move the scope then click the tick button to update it?
The computer automatically changes the solution based on which way you point the scope. You can see a ship but the computer can only do what you tell it. The computer only serves one purpose: to get the torpedo to hit what you have under the crosshairs. You tell it how fast it goes and how far away it is and which direction its going and it sets up the solution to fire as a target under your crosshairs. Really it just figures out how far to lead it. The computer can't detect anything visually. You pointit like a gun, albeit a gun which fires as crooked or straight as you tell it. :up:

So no you don't have to update the TDC everytime you move the scope. If that were true you'd have to hit the check constanly since almost every target is moving and the scope moves with it whether it's locked or you're manually tracking it.