bein depth charged no big deal (NYGM)

[Laffertytig]

does anyone else ever die from dc attacks (pre 43)? i cant remember the last time i perished, surely there should be fear from depth charges but i never feel like im gonna get sunk.
i started a med campaign in feb 42. after a convoy attack i crash dived as 2 dd's were closin fast. dc dropped charges on me when i was at 50 metres and survived, after 2 hours game time dc attack was still goin and i hadnt sustained any damage.

i then done a test in the gibralter single mission. i attracted the attention of 6 dd's and dived to 60 metres and moved to flank speed and left it to see how long i would last. after 2 dozen passes i still hadnt received any damage. only 2 of those passed resulted in dc's goin of within 10ft and even after those explosions no damage was incurred. were dc attacks historically so lame?

this aint a criticism of the mod as i wouldnt play without it but isnt one the this mods quotes something like "what use is a sim if everything is certain"

whenever i play i feel certain i aint gonna get sunk as long as i dive

my question is what are the dc blast settings in NYGM and why didnt i receive damage?

has there been any modding work done on this?

thanx in advance

[Sailor Steve]

In the stock game depth charges can kill you from as far away as 25 meters. In the Depth Charge Lethal Radius Mod the kill range is reduced to 8 meters, which is about right. In real life submarines were occassionally DCed for hours on end, escaping with only minor damage.

Of course it only takes one going off close enough...

I'm pretty sure the lethal radius in GW and NYGM both are set for 8 meters, or thereabouts.

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

IIRC, I seem to recall a statistic that said that depth charges accounted for only 7% of damage and sunk U-boats, while the later hedgehogs accounted for 27% or more.

Also, reading up on depth charges and d/c attacks it seems as if they weren't as dangerous as it might appear, due to the time required for the charges to sink to depth, the way the patterns tumbled and dispersed, and other factors like escorts losing sound contact within 100 meters, etc. A good U-boat commander would wait for the splashes of dropped charges then simply make moderate turns. If the charges don't detonate within 10 feet (iirc) they won't damage the hull at all, although within 30 feet they'll damage the outer structure.

Where depth charges get nasty seem to be: 1) getting caught with your knickers down on the surface by aircraft, and 2) shallow water/draft. If you get depth charged and aren't very deep the charges sink fast and have a much better chance of going off close to you.

[Sailor Steve]

If the charges don't detonate within 10 feet (iirc) they won't damage the hull at all, although within 30 feet they'll damage the outer structure.
At 10 feet, or even 20, the boat is likely dead. 50 feet would guarantee damage. 70 feet was considered effective for minor damage.
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WAMBR_ASW.htm
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WAMUS_ASW.htm

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

If the charges don't detonate within 10 feet (iirc) they won't damage the hull at all, although within 30 feet they'll damage the outer structure.
At 10 feet, or even 20, the boat is likely dead. 50 feet would guarantee damage. 70 feet was considered effective for minor damage.
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WAMBR_ASW.htm
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WAMUS_ASW.htm

The hydraulic "water hammer" effect created by a 300-pound depth charge would destroy the submarine if detonated within 10 yards of the hull, 30 yards away only damaged the hull.

I didn't recall correctly; mixed feet for yards.:oops:

[Ducimus]

I think the leathal range of a DC was in the neighborhood of 12 meters. Not to mention that uboats could dive deeper then *most* (not all) depth charges could explode. A uboat would be as deep as 280 meters while the depth charges exploded overhead. Regardless surfacing was impossible so it became a nerve racking waiting game fighting to keep the boat afloat while the DD's would be sounding and pounding. Thats the historical take.

Unfortunatly what was historical doesnt always make the best gameplay. If it were possible to limit DC's depth to shallower depths then you could recreate what i just described. Unfortunatly you can't, (they all go to 300 meters), and if someones figured it out they havent told anyone that im aware of. So your left with the standard compensating effect of the stock's games deadly accuracy with weak depth charges and/or sensor blind spots.

[AVGWarhawk]

Many boats were depth charged for hours on end and many lived to write books about it. Although the depth charge were created to sink the boats, there seemed to be more effective at keeping the boat down for hours and away from the convoys. So ok, you were depth charged for hours on end mean while the convoy you were hoping to get is steaming away at 7 knots. So there are really two sides to the depth charge coin. Death or keeping you down which can be death in two forms, no tonnage sunk or you have to surface for air. The later getting you killed anyway. It is my belief that if every depth charge that was dropped on you sinks your boat....this game would be really short for most and collecting dust on the shelf :shifty:

[Laffertytig]

fair points. doest explain why i didnt receive any damage at all from a dc barrage that went of within 15ft of my sub though. or maybe single missions play differently from the campaign?

i agree that most dc attacks didnt result in the sub being sunk. but it does kill the immersion of the sim when im in the control room and the sub is rokcking from the dc explosions, i press f12 and see dc's goin off at very close range but i receive no damage at all. it left me thinkin i could just speed up time, go ahead slow and go do something cos im safe from these destroyers.

id be interested to hear teddy bears highly valued comments on this matter

[Ducimus]

What you should get alot of, is machinery damage, and flooding from the shock effect of the DC's. A sub is like an egg. It has a hard (but easily crunchy) shell, with a soft interior.

[Laffertytig]

ok done a bit more testing, this time in my campaign. at 60metres dc's goin of at close range no damage
20 metres 1st pass suffered lots of damage. seems dc's are ineffective at deeper depths and i mean closer that 12 feet. somethings definetely wrong here

i assume the sim takes into account deeper depth, less powerful dc explosion. how do i check what settings nygm are in regards to this?

[MothBalls]

After reading this, I'm testing it too.

Started a 42 career, found a convoy and charged it on the surface and fired a salvo into it hitting 2 ships. Then went to 90 meters.

Right now I'm at 90 meters doing 4 knots with 15 degrees right rudder, just going in a circle. 5 destroyers over me dropping almost constant, I haven't been hit once. Still at 100%. I set my water to clear via commander and watching from F12, I've been rocked 3-4 times by close hits, no damage.

One fast dropping DC passed within 1m of my hull, kept going, blew up about 20m below me. No damage. It's still running so we'll see what happens.

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Right now I'm at 90 meters doing 4 knots with 15 degrees right rudder, just going in a circle. 5 destroyers over me dropping almost constant, I haven't been hit once.

A successful depth charge attack had to be extremely accurate to destroy a German submarine. The hydraulic "water hammer" effect created by a 300-pound depth charge would destroy the submarine if detonated within 10 yards of the hull, 30 yards away only damaged the hull.

The use of rear drop racks was a useful strategy in WWI, but by WW2 submarine technology and acoustic sensors had progressed significantly. U-boats were was able to detect engine and cavitation noises of pursuer's propellers and the splashing of their depth charges. The early Mk 6 depth charges took between 50 and 75 seconds to sink to 600 feet (the maximum U-boat depth). The newer Mk 9/14 depth charges were designed to sink faster but still took between 26 and 41 seconds to sink the same depth. This lag time allowed the U-boat captain to navigate away from the danger area.

That actually doesn't sound unreasonable. If you want to just check to see if an ashcan, at depth and close, will damage I'd try just sitting at dead stop at depth.

(all quotes courtesy of http://www.de220.com/Armament/Depth%20Charges/DepthCharges.htm)

[Ducimus]

The game takes depth in relation to your sub into account, but im not sure if it does with DC's or not.

The two primary files your looking for are Depthcharges.sim and DepthCharges.zon I think their in the sh3/data/library directory.

A good user friendly easier to understand editor is Time Travellers Sh3 Inspector. A more robust but not as user friendly is Time Travellers Tweaker.

Theres serveral variables to play with, and their fairly self explantiory by description.

I might add ithink you've just crossed into a realm in which there is no return.
"Hmm this isnt right, i dont like this, how do i fix this?" Thats how it starts.
Next thing you know you'll spend as much time tweaking the game as you do playing it, if not more ;)

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

I might add ithink you've just crossed into a realm in which there is no return.
"Hmm this isnt right, i dont like this, how do i fix this?" Thats how it starts.
Next thing you know you'll spend as much time tweaking the game as you do playing it, if not more ;)

--wicked grin--

Isn't that kinda also like 'the first taste is always free'?

:D ;)

[Ducimus]

Note me sig:

Ive torn both GW and NYGM apart picking out the bits i liked and made my own "supermod" out of it. Quite a few others have too i think. Once you understand how the files correlate to one another, its not that hard, just time consuming.

[MothBalls]

Thats how it starts.
Next thing you know you'll spend as much time tweaking the game as you do playing it, if not more ;)

Just what I needed. ANOTHER addiction.

[Laffertytig]

SH3 is the only game ive ever tryed to mod and your right, it is becoming compulsive. reckon if i get this sorted il be happy enough as it does seem that dc's have ZERO effect at depths greater than 30-40 metres, well thats whats hapnin in my game anyway.

would be interested to hear from teddy bear or anyone else who has attempted to mod these dc files

[Redwine]

If i dont remember bad..... the most extensively used depth charge was the 250lbs and 420lbs, the 420lbs one has a lethal radius to perforate a 18/20mm hull of 4.5 meters filled with TNT, this lethal radius rise up at final war times up to 7 meters filled with AMATOL/ MINOL.

Some subs has more tick hulls.


Bigger depth charge was not extensivelly used, and in other hand there was may with lower explosive charge than 420lbs.

DDs depth charges was not an efective way to kill a sub, free fall bombs was not either.

Helhedog and planes was the most effectives.

[Ducimus]

Heres an idea for you Laffertytig.

Go to the mod/backup/data/library directory and copy the backed up depthcharge files to your desktop. (these should be stock if previously unmodded).

Rename them back to their orginal names.

Then just copy them into the sh3/data/library directory. Don't disable NYGM , just drop these stock files in place so the game uses them. (if you want to revert, just copy the same files from the NYGM directory back to the games active directory).

Try those out, and see if theres a difference. :88)

[Der Teddy Bar]

The way that depth charges work in SHIII is as follows.

To remove Hull Integrity the depth charge must be closer than the minimum radius of splash damage. The ammunition has maximum hit points until this distance.

At distances greater than minimum radius no Hull Integrity is lost but zones i.e. compartments machinery etc can take damage if the HP is greater then the armour.

The depth charge HP continues to be reduced up until the maximum radius of splash damage.

The NYGM Depth charge has its minimum radius as 4.5 metres.

I would ask that you be sure of the distance as it is often deceptively farther away than it looks.

As for accuracy of the depth charges under NYGM, that probably comes as a result of the NYGM configuration having a minimum range at 300 metres. So once the escort is within 300 metres it looses ‘contact’ with you.

Maybe we need to adjust this figure back a little to try and get a better in game result.


NYGM are aiming for sinking primarily through flooding. As for real world one hit outright kills I think that most will find that u-boats were a lot tougher than they realised. I think that the real world escorts were probably better at boxing the u-boat with a set of depth charges.

But as Ducimus correctly states, when a depth charge is very close there should be a high chance that there is a lot of machinery damage etc.

However in SHIII we have the issue that only a few items of machinery are modelled and due to the way that the DM is done it is not that great for having machinery damage and not having compartment flooding.

As for the dive planes & rudders etc we have no partial damage effects such as jamming. We have no bent drive shafts etc etc etc


From the Jurrgen Oesten interview by the SHIII Dev Team. In this interview he relates a how he was caught submerged by a British destroyer and as a result they received a large amount of damage to the Type II u-boat. The punch line is that a depth charge exploded so close to the u-boat that it dented the pressure hull and knocked the diesel engine off it mounts. This dent was seen from inside the u-boat.

Teddy Suhren's VII which when depth charged by a plane the 3 explosion was so close as to have an instance where 'a thin jet of flame shot from the closed hatch to the number 5 torpedo tube'... however there were no leakages to the pressure hull, Tube #5 was flooded though.
Hardegen in U-123 had a salvo of 6 depth charges dropped on/around the u-boat in water only 22 metres deep. The damage was listed as…
head valves were open i.e. compressed air escaping
tower hatch cracked open (but was closed)
the port engine was down
several tanks could not be blown
most of the batteries were out
bent drive shaft/s
hydrophones out
hydroplanes out

This is the major damage listed, but in all this, no mention of any flooding and there was certainly no flooding of any significance.


To explain the SHIII damage model better…

If we have 2 zones that are 3 x 3 metres which are directly behind each other and each zone can only be directly ‘hit’ from one side. The armour value on the 1st zone we have set so that only a depth charge of maximum HP will cause any damage and on the 2nd zone the armour value is setup so that it can be damaged by all depth charges.

For this exercise the depth charge will explode 10 metres from the zone and has a maximum radius of 15. Again, each zone can only be directly ‘hit’ from the side that it is on. The maximum HP is 240, but the actual HP is 200.

Zone 1. A depth charge goes off next to the 1st zone that is of 200HP and as a result no damage is done.
Zone 2. A depth charge goes off next to the 2nd zone that is of 200HP and as a result damage is done.

Here is where the SHIII DM falls apart…

As the depth charge defeated the armour of the 2nd zone, the depth charge will now damage the 1st zone as it is within the 15 metre radius.

That is because each zones armour value is not calculated; only the value of the 1st zone encountered is.

A classic example of this was with the NYGM Aircraft Damage Mod. After configuring it all up and being happy with it I could not for the life of me understand why the Fuel Bunker kept going BOOM when it had such high armour as to not be penetrable. It ends up that the zone PlaneSmoke, a non damage zone, one used to create visual effects, was allowing the bullet through and as explained above, after that it was BOOM.

This is why, even when I can create zones at will for the ships, the aircraft and the u-boats that it is still so difficult and very time consuming to make a great Ship Damage Mod.


As mentioned above, less than 8% of all depth charges attacks were effective. Of the figures there is however no break down of aircraft/escort and for escorts how long the successful attacks lasted and if the sinking were a result of the depth charges alone (even if it surfaced due to damage) or battery/oxygen forcing a u-boat to surface.

[Beery]

does anyone else ever die from dc attacks (pre 43)? i cant remember the last time i perished, surely there should be fear from depth charges but i never feel like im gonna get sunk...

They simply weren't as effective as the movies (where we all 'learn' about depth charges) claim they were. Basically, the standard game's depth charges are much more effective than real depth charges were. In RUb we toned them down a bit, but I was never happy with them and I always thought they could do with a bit more toning down. I can't speak for GW or NYGM as I haven't examined their DC settings.

Mainly though, the game's problem is that U-boats are too easy for ships to find and attack, and when they do attack the DCs are often dropped with an accuracy that would have been impossible in real life until the last year or so of the war. Then there's the problem that the DC depth settings in the game completely ignore the fact that for most of the war the Allies had no idea that German U-boats could go as deep as they could, so the depth settings were always set too shallow and so were ineffective if a U-boat could get deep enough. In the game DCs often do serious damage when the U-boat is at its maximum depth and even in early war patrols - this shouldn't be the case. I feel DCs should really only be effective soon after a U-boat has dived - when it's achieved great depths it should be fairly safe - at least until 1944/45 when the Allies finally got their act together. The only way to fix this would be to reduce AI search capabilities at depth, which is an unrealistic 'work-around' solution.

[WhiteW0lf]

I think maybe you should play without freecam or godseye view then you would have a totaly different viewpoint, I play at high realism with just my weapons officer assistance activated and being in your control room trying to listen to the engines of the DD's above and plan where they are in your mind zigzagging your boat blindly back and forth away from the enemy and hearing the DD go silent so you go silent realy changes the game around, of course it easier to put your godseye view on and look where the DD's are in relation to your sub but the fun is the realism and not doing that.

[HunterICX]

I think maybe you should play without freecam or godseye view then you would have a totaly different viewpoint, I play at high realism with just my weapons officer assistance activated and being in your control room trying to listen to the engines of the DD's above and plan where they are in your mind zigzagging your boat blindly back and forth away from the enemy and hearing the DD go silent so you go silent realy changes the game around, of course it easier to put your godseye view on and look where the DD's are in relation to your sub but the fun is the realism and not doing that.

:yep: I love to be in the command room, I still have free cam on in case I want to see the big bang to make a nice screenshot of it. but I dont look at the DD coming for me, I stay in the Command room , and when the asdic starts to hit my sub I wait...and dive slowely...and when I hear WASSERBOMBE! and gotta love that moment when they hit closely to ur sub... lights going off and on, shakemovement your Helms officer screaming SHIPS DAMAGED SIR!!! WE HAVE FLOODING SIR!!! and when thats over I go to the Crew management to see what the damages are and repair them ASAP.:up:

[Laffertytig]

thanks for the response teddy bear if the dc settings in nygm are historical then im happy enough. id just like to experience what the last guy was talking about, gettin damage fightin flooding etc.
teddy bear does nygm mod influence single missions as well? i played the gibralter mission, dove to 60 metres, went flank speed and was attacked by several destroyers for around 30-40 mins game time till i quit and recieved no damage inc a lot of near misses. i realise most subs werent sunk by dc's but those dc's should've had me surely?

[Threadfin]

of course it easier to put your godseye view on and look where the DD's are in relation to your sub but the fun is the realism and not doing that.

Yeah, what he said.

[kylania]

thanks for the response teddy bear if the dc settings in nygm are historical then im happy enough. id just like to experience what the last guy was talking about, gettin damage fightin flooding etc.
teddy bear does nygm mod influence single missions as well? i played the gibralter mission, dove to 60 metres, went flank speed and was attacked by several destroyers for around 30-40 mins game time till i quit and recieved no damage inc a lot of near misses. i realise most subs werent sunk by dc's but those dc's should've had me surely?

From uboat.net: "...most U-boats that were sunk by depth charges alone probably sank due to accumulated damage from repeated depth charge attacks. Many U-boats survived as many as 300 depth charges over a period of many hours."

I did a Gibraltar run last nite based on something I saw in another thread here. Ran flank speed towards the gap than at first ship sighting plunged to 180m and just kept going. At one time I had twenty(!) ships attacking me, and not a single hit. :)

If you were at 60m I think you should have been hit at least once though. As I started to surface I got hit a few times but forgot to check which depth it was at.

[HarLkiN]

hi all,

i´ve been reading along for couple of years now, and really enjoying this forum, but this is only my second post...

i got bombed by a dd 5 min ago, in a way, that seemed pretty realistic in terms of what i read in books, etc.

in dec 41 i intercepted a gibraltar going convoy in cg89, i came from dead ahead, (not so good an idea probably) went to 25m at about 15km. went to silent running, 2 knots. i manouvered like this before, so i figured it might work.

the forward dd located me in 6 km to the convoy. as i didnt want to let it pass i thought about evading the dc by going to flank when the dd stopps pinging.

this was good for 2 bombing runs and with still 4 km to go i got hit by a dc, that caused minor flooding in the aft torp room, damage to the aft half of the boat and worst both electric motors, repair time about 2 min... here the ordeal really began.

so i ordered 80 m, and managed to get to 40m till all forward movement was gone, from that on still only one dd made another 5-6 bombing runs until i surfaced and got shot by guns...

the battle was very intense, even though after i was at dead stop i knew i wouldnt make it.
i never felt such a thrill with this game before, im running nygm2.2, foobars skins, gods eye view, graphuic and sound mods. and i must say this gives me the best experience since the game came out... grat community by the way.

harlkin

[dize]

awww that very old topic again :)
well the point about the "myth" of deadly depthcharge, isnt entirely true. depthcharges where of course a real danger to uboats right from the start. the uboat force had constant losses to allied escorts from the earliest on. uboat.net clearly lists the early years uboat losses, incl reason.

ofc it wasnt that bad as in the later years of the war, but still. saying that a uboat commander could just slip in and blast a few ships out of the water, while he was being hunted and depthcharged, as it is in the game most of the time, is not realy true.

being cought on shallower depth should always be a dangerous thing. if you manage to get deep and silent, it is ofc something different. the point, that the game completely fails to differ here is spot on.

the main prob the game has, in this whole "escorts attack uboat with dc" thing is that the ai fails to model a real "aiming process" from the dd side.
after the escort has a fix on you, it starts his dc run. in reality, a dd skipper had to aim his dc salvo. how deep is he? what direction is he traveling, and where will he be located whan my dc's reach the targeted depth?

the dd had to predict the spot of water, which will be full of uboat, when its dc's get there.

in sh3, the ai just rushes to your last know position, and unloads. this is why you never receive any damage when you are traveling at even the slowest speeds, cept when you realy have an unlucky angle of approach. unfortunately, this is one of the dd ai features, which is hard coded. it cannot be changed.

[Laffertytig]

"in sh3, the ai just rushes to your last know position, and unloads. this is why you never receive any damage when you are traveling at even the slowest speeds, cept when you realy have an unlucky angle of approach. unfortunately, this is one of the dd ai features, which is hard coded. it cannot be changed."

wouldnt agree with that as in my test runs dc's were falling all around me.

"At one time I had twenty(!) ships attacking me, and not a single hit."

this is the pojnt im making! surely with all those dd's droppin charges the odds of damage, serious or minor would be pretty high? SH3 gives u the feeling that as long as u go deep u r invincible which equates to predictable= boring
u should always have the worry that 1 dc might just get u!

any ideas how we can improve this? would increasing the minimum blast radius improve things?

[mookiemookie]

any ideas how we can improve this? would increasing the minimum blast radius improve things?

From a realism standpoint? No. In a simulator, I want every last detail modelled down to the letter exactly how it was back then. The difference between a FPS shoot 'em up and a simulator, is that a shooter will sarifice realism for the sake of game balance and "fun", but a sim will sacrifice game balance and "fun" for the sake of realism. (notice I put "fun" in quotes as the players of these genres of games will have differing opinions of what exactly "fun" is!)

I think dize hit the nail on the head, or is at least on the right track. If there is indeed a problem, then it's not the weapons that these DD's are armed with, but rather it's the intelligence of how to use them provided by the developers.

[Laffertytig]

"At one time I had twenty(!) ships attacking me, and not a single hit."
this happened to me as well so its not a case if it bein a 1 off.

so u find this realistic?

im in agreement with u, i dont want the SH3 or nygm made "more fun" by decreasing realism. i find it interestin to hear other peoples opinion on this especially teddy bears as he has already done so much to enhance SH3.

i think the destroyer ai is as good as its gonna get, im just hopin that maybe the example above could be improved on a little

[mookiemookie]

"At one time I had twenty(!) ships attacking me, and not a single hit."
this happened to me as well so its not a case if it bein a 1 off.

so u find this realistic?

im in agreement with u, i dont want the SH3 or nygm made "more fun" by decreasing realism. i find it interestin to hear other peoples opinion on this especially teddy bears as he has already done so much to enhance SH3.

i think the destroyer ai is as good as its gonna get, im just hopin that maybe the example above could be improved on a little

Let me clarify the point I was trying to make, as I may not have done a good job. (Furthermore, I'm only speaking of SH3 with the GW mod, which the majority of us seem to use, and really all I know about. I played the stock game for 2 days before installing GW)

I trust that the specs on the depth charges are realistic. Maximum depth, blast radius, damage ability, etc. What I don't trust is the hard coded behavior of DDs and the way that they use these depth charges. And that can't be changed, I fear. So by mucking about with blast radius and the specs on the DCs, I fear we'd be getting away from realism even more than we are already. Therefore, I don't think messing with that part of the equation is the answer. Just my $0.02, anyways.

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

"At one time I had twenty(!) ships attacking me, and not a single hit."
this happened to me as well so its not a case if it bein a 1 off.

so u find this realistic?

im in agreement with u, i dont want the SH3 or nygm made "more fun" by decreasing realism. i find it interestin to hear other peoples opinion on this especially teddy bears as he has already done so much to enhance SH3.

i think the destroyer ai is as good as its gonna get, im just hopin that maybe the example above could be improved on a little

Actually, my biggest 'beef' with destroyer/escort behavior versus U-boat has little to do with how they depth charge. It's actually two-fold.

The first is what happens during the highly regrettable and (should be disastrous) unfortunate occurance of getting rammed. I have never been badly damaged by being rammed, including being struck a dead-ninety amidships. In fact, the destroyer seems to get the worse of the deal. It seems to me that getting rammed should be critically mortal, if not outright fatal. Instead, normally all that happens is my watch tower (bridge and conning tower) gets bunged up and that's about it, while the DD winds up sinking half the time.

The second has to do with getting shelled. Let's consider some of the specs of the potential deck guns . . .

5" diameter, 54 pound projectile, max range 18,200 yards (although I'm sure accuracy sucked at that range, especially against something like a U-boat's silhouette) rate of fire 15 rounds a minute . . .

Now compare that to a hedgehog, which was essentially a lofted finned bomb 7.2" diameter and 75 pounds. It only took a couple to cripple or kill a U-boat, yet in the game a U-boat can get shelled again and again and still sail merrily about with little damage.

[Der Teddy Bar]

thanks for the response teddy bear if the dc settings in nygm are historical then im happy enough. id just like to experience what the last guy was talking about, gettin damage fightin flooding etc.
teddy bear does nygm mod influence single missions as well? i played the gibralter mission, dove to 60 metres, went flank speed and was attacked by several destroyers for around 30-40 mins game time till i quit and recieved no damage inc a lot of near misses. i realise most subs werent sunk by dc's but those dc's should've had me surely? The NYGM TW Mod is evident in all SHIII game play.

I do not profess to be an expert on this but I would probably expect a similar result in real life. Just knowing where a u-boat was exactly is difficult as there are no land marks to assist you in and the faster you go the greater chance of error in the drop location.

The battery drain is where SHIII fails big time. After 40 minutes at flank you should have been down to probably 1/3 battery capacity.

Another aspect that also must be considered is that a lot of late war sinking's were as a result of the escorts being able to out wait the u-boat and detecting it by radar once it had resurfaced.

In addition to the Allies knowing where the u-boats were and actively hunting them.

In the game we have the escort giving up after 40 minutes where as in WWII it was something along the lines of 36 hours.

[Der Teddy Bar]

As mentioned the very badly modeled battery drain, the very short 40 minutes on location and the search area of the AI are contributers to allowing a player to get away with unrealistic behaviour that would have normally caught up with a real u-boat.

It would appear the the escort may not allowing for forward motion as well.

As I had mentioned, the standard time for an unattached or detached escort to stay around was up to 36 hours.


If we were all to agree, then we could raise the lost time contact to something like 3 hours. This I feel would result in players being kept down and bringing the battery into play. As it is now sprint get away and 60 minutes later surface with no concern.


As for the deck gun, in TW 2.2 ALL deck gun hits now remove Hull Integrity. In the next revision we are seeking to achieve a very high HP loss.

What has stopped us upping the HP lost is the issue of escorts coming out of the rain & fog. Two apposing weather conditions.

We will see about upping the HP lost in the next revision but due to the weather it will not be a 1 hit no submerge.

[Immacolata]

For the love of all things kaleun do not decrease the contact lost distance! They are giving me a rough time as it is. They don't often hit with their ashcans but they do keep me down in great FEAR!

[Doc1234]

Hi all,

I am running NYGM 2.2. and I have been sunk many times by depth charges...both in the open sea and a Scapa Flow...they seem effective to me. All of my sinkings have ocured in 1939, campaign game.

Doc

[NiKuTa]

Mod NYGM is realy hard :). DC in this mod are nice. I was sunk many times: once -1939, Twice - 1941 and 1943. In 1943 is very hard to escape form destroyers. Thay know how to use ASDIC. I dont know how to avoid ASDIC in this year. The DC very often are throw straight on me :/.

Nice work NYGM crew.

[Der Teddy Bar]

Thanks for the feedback it is much appreciated.

[WhiteW0lf]

NYGM is what I am using with GW and I was just caught in the straights between britain and france and I was hit with depth charges and sunk to the bottom luckily it was only 40 meters I had to act quickly to stop flooding in each compartment and then repair my batteries, I waited 3 hours for the destroyers to leave then rose from the bottom and traveled at 1 knot for several hours before finaly surfacing at night and limping home.

[Steeltrap]

Liquid Cooled P4 3.6
2 GB Dual Speed Ram
GeForce 7800GT 256mb Card
120GB HDD
19in LCD Monitor
Now that is what I call a computer!!!!!!

OK, I'll see yours and raise you.....

AMD Athlon FX-62 Dual Core w 2 x 1Gb on board cache
2Gb DDR2 PC5300 @ 667MHz RAM (2x1Gb)
ATI Radeon X1950 XTX 512 Mb GDDR4 card
WD Raptor 74Gb HDD 10,000rpm
Samsung 204B 20.1" LCD - 1600x1200, 5ms
Sound Blaster X-Fi Platinum

:rock: :rock:

Just joking with you (not the details, they ARE my actual rig's specs)....your's sounds sweet, too!

[WhiteW0lf]

Nice SteelTrap, especialy a 512 video card :o

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

As for the deck gun, in TW 2.2 ALL deck gun hits now remove Hull Integrity. In the next revision we are seeking to achieve a very high HP loss.

What has stopped us upping the HP lost is the issue of escorts coming out of the rain & fog. Two apposing weather conditions.

We will see about upping the HP lost in the next revision but due to the weather it will not be a 1 hit no submerge.

I don't mind having escorts pop out of (seemingly) nowhere from rain and fog. Heck, visibility at times when both are heavy is around 300 - 400 meters. What I do mind, a lot, :damn: is how the escorts always seem to be at general quarters/battle stations all the time.

There should be some sort of time-delay between them spotting you, and them actually firing at you. I mean, it's not like they're at constant battle stations from the moment they leave port until they return. It'd be different if they made radar contact (and you didn't have radar detection and so couldn't know they had made a contact) and were actively seeking. But, c'mon! . . . 3 in the morning, in a nasty storm, heavy precip and fog, and within seconds of visual contact all guns are blazing!?

Sheesh! :roll:

[stealheart]

bahh lost everything I just wrote and have to start over:damn:

Not often I know about something enough<cough,cough> to post.More interesting that relevant really sorry:oops:

The Royal Navy had a hard job "killing" the Uboats with DC's due to many reasons but one main reason as has been mentioned is that the uboat could hear when the DD was closing in both by propeller noise and asdic pulses and could prepare and try to evade the DC pattern.

One of our finest Captain's (Frederic Walker,RN)of the war came up with a way in which to try and negate that problem.He came up with the creeper attack.he would attack the sub with his full flotila of DD's.The first DD would keep in contact with the uboat on adsic (regular pulses as opposed to close pulses)which would hopefully make the uboat think he was not about to be attacked and mantain his speed and depth ect.

With the first DD directing the rest of the DD's(asdic off) they would "creep" slowely up on the uboat and drop their DC's(hopefully not blowing their own sterns off) giving the uboat a hell of a lot less warning and time to get out of the way.

This tactic worked wonders and with it a small part of the tide started to turn in favour of the RN.Walkers own ship "Starling" sunk 6 uboats alone in one patrol.

[MRV]

I think 7 % of the Depth Charges damaging a U-Boat is in reality more dangerous than most people here think, this means that in average every 12th - 15th DC at least damaged a U-boat. Well.....this is kinda scary enough I think...imagine a guy firing at you from 100 Meter Distance with a pistol i.e. He hasnt a big chance that he scores a hit on you but I think the Person who gets fired at doesnt want to stay there either. :p

Also, the Damage Model in all kinds of Simulations simply cant be realistic. This is because of the percentage-system. In RL, no Crewmember would go to the captain and tell him that i.e. the Deck Gun of the Sub is damaged by 10 %.
10 % could mean much......it could mean a ripped of elevation wheel that simply needs to be replaced, it can also mean a slightly bended barrel with no further damage that would still result in a big boom if anyone tries to fire that gun again without bending the barrel to normal.

For that example with Oestens dented pressure hull: in SH3, this would have caused medium damage to the engine room compartment, wich is repaired after a few hours. In RL something like that could never been completely repaired at sea.

So to archive a fairly realistic DM on Subs, you would need a random chance for about thousands of sorts of possible damage of all kinds. And this simply cant be modeled.....

[spork542]

Speaking of depth charges, I just read this:

From uboat.net:



"During an attack on convoy RA.66 U-427 (http://www.uboat.net/find_boat.php3?find_boat=427) unsuccessfully attacked two of its escorts, the Canadian destroyers HMCS Haida and Iroquois. The escorts fought back and dropped a total of 678 depth charges on U-427 (http://www.uboat.net/find_boat.php3?find_boat=427)'s believed position during a several hour long hunt. Through some good luck and no doubt equal skill the U-boat escaped the area. My source puts this on the night of 29 April, 1945 and the second last attack on an Arctic convoy."

Amazing... just amazing. 678 depth charges.

[Venatore]

The escorts fought back and dropped a total of 678 depth charges on U-427 (http://www.uboat.net/find_boat.php3?find_boat=427)

I'd would have liked to seen their chalkboard :o

[The Noob]

I'd would have liked to seen their chalkboard :o
It sure read "OMFG WHAT A TON OF DC'S WE'RE GONNA DIE!". :lol:

[Steeltrap]

Peter Cremer in U-333 describes his encounter with Walker's group - makes for some interesting reading!!

[MRV]

Holy Sh............

2 Escorts dropping 678 DC's???????? How many did they have on board??? Did they fill some of the crew compartements with DC's and let their crewman sit on them instead of chairs????


Makes the explosion count board from Das Boot quite useless......

[Sailor Steve]

Even at the end of the war most escorts carried a maximum of 120 depth charges. It could be that the attack was conducted by more than two escorts, with the original two being mentioned because the attack was made on them.