Schools fingerprinting students without consent

[SUBMAN1]

Whats with all the fingerprinting BS going on lately?


-S


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/06/fingerprint_action/


Parents prepare to sue fingerprint grabbers

Schools to be challenged over biometrics

[tycho102]

You know, that's something that always pisses me off.

I got fingerprinted about 3 times before 6th grade was complete. I got fingerprinted for my driver's license, my pilot's license, my concealed permit, before boot-camp, after boot-camp. I literally have a couple unique set of prints in every governmental jurisdiction -- local, state, federal.

Not once! Not one god damn time has anyone ever said: "Oh, wait. My bad. You're already in the system, dude. Let me just get these bitmaps associated with your form and you're good to go."

As for the kids, their prints significantly change every couple years, as well as their dental records. It should be required for enrollment that you've got prints on record with the local police station.

[SUBMAN1]

You know, that's something that always pisses me off.

I got fingerprinted about 3 times before 6th grade was complete. I got fingerprinted for my driver's license, my pilot's license, my concealed permit, before boot-camp, after boot-camp. I literally have a couple unique set of prints in every governmental jurisdiction -- local, state, federal.

Not once! Not one god damn time has anyone ever said: "Oh, wait. My bad. You're already in the system, dude. Let me just get these bitmaps associated with your form and you're good to go."

As for the kids, their prints significantly change every couple years, as well as their dental records. It should be required for enrollment that you've got prints on record with the local police station.

Am I hearing you right in that you think this is OK and normal? Or is this a joke?

-S

[STEED]

No joke here in the U.K. this is happening now all part of the present Labour Government trying to push the ID Card on all of us, they come out with the usual rubbish it will stop terrorist and immigrants and so on. It's all crap and as for fingerprinting school children I am lost for words. England is becoming more like a police state and Big Brother is enjoying every moment of it. :nope:

[ASWnut101]

Thats probably the dumbest thing ive heard. what good does it do? I would not let them take my prints if they randomly approach me, they just CAN'T, its our legal right. They could have at least notified the parents. Shame....:nope:

[Kapitan]

I made my teachers lives hell on earth when ever they tried to search me, they would come to me and randomly say ok open your bag i want to look inside, then id just turn around and say "You have no right to search my bag" when they said yes i do im a teacher i quickly jumped in and said "i want a police man present, as you do not have the authority to search my bag or belonging's if you try and force me to open it then i will make an offical complaint to the education authority"

Then normaly they grumbled and walked off, one teacher didnt think id have the balls to go through with it, he later found out why not to piss me off, because i did go to the education authority and did make a complaint and he was suspended and when i said im going to the papers they sacked him.

It just made the teachers all stop and realise that i dont make idle threats, if i say it or promise it i do it.

So they wont get finger prints out of me without a copper being there end of, and if they do try and take them without consent then i will be sueing for invasion of privacy and something else i cant remember and then i can force them to destroy or erase any fingerprints they have of me.

:D its great having a good barrister :D

[STEED]

Here's one I saw.

High-tech school security is on the rise
By Greg Toppo, USA TODAY

Each morning, the 16,000 students in the Spring Independent School District in suburban Houston swipe their ID tags as they climb onto the school bus. A radio frequency tag tracks them, as it does when they arrive at school and as they leave the building.
Nearly 1,000 cameras watch them all day. Every visitor — parents, volunteers, the guy who fills the Coke machine — must surrender his or her driver's license to a secretary who checks it against a national database of sex offenders. This fall, nearly one in three schools literally trap visitors inside a "secure vestibule," a bulletproof glass room, until they're checked out.
Welcome to the brave new world of school security. In an era when deadly school shootings seem to happen like clockwork, schools are hardening up, trying unconventional means to deter violence and keep track of students and adults.
President Bush convenes a school safety summit today in response to a spate of shootings. But schools have long been beefing up security — often in the face of diminishing funding — creating "crisis plans" and investing millions in systems they hope will deter the next deadly incident.
"If somebody's really determined to get into a school and they have a high enough caliber weapon, they're going to get in," says Alan Bragg, chief of Spring's school police. But ID checks and the like are "a huge deterrent" to most would-be criminals.
And though shootings like those at Columbine High School in 1999 prompted schools to be on the lookout for violent students, safety experts say kidnapping and molestation cases also have forced them to pay attention to adults on campus.
Florida and California now require criminal background checks for anyone working or regularly visiting a school.
"People need to realize that the day of the open campus is changing," says Allan Measom, CEO of Raptor Technologies, a Houston firm that sells the visitor tracking system that Spring uses.
Schools in 19 states use it to stop registered sex offenders at the front desk. Since the school year began, Measom says, it has ID'd more than 100 offenders, about seven a day. States lost track of about 20 who fled without telling police.
Raptor actually was born from the collapse of Enron. Measom's firm had built a Web-based system to track visitors at the Houston energy company, but when Enron, amid financial scandal, went belly-up in 2002, Measom and a partner adapted the technology.
They're now in 2,020 schools in 212 districts. After an initial investment of $1,500, schools pay $432 a year to access the system.
Schools — most often it's the secretaries at the front desk — scan a visitor's driver's license. The system transmits the visitor's name, date of birth and photo to Raptor. If the data match those of someone in the sex offender registry, Raptor e-mails the arrest photo to the school, lining it up next to the driver's license photo. An onscreen prompt asks: "Is this the person registering?"
If the photos match and the secretary clicks "Yes," police get an e-mail or text message. In most cases, the visitor — often a parent — may simply get restricted access. Many offenders have been stopped from working or volunteering at schools, and in a few cases, police have tracked down offenders and arrested them.
More schools may get the technology soon; the U.S. Justice Department recently chose Raptor as a pilot program for schools nationwide.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2006-10-09-school-security_x.htm


And this sort of thing is starting to show it's self here too.

[Tchocky]

Welcome to the brave new world of school security. In an era when deadly school shootings seem to happen like clockwork, schools are hardening up, trying unconventional means to deter violence and keep track of students and adults.
President Bush convenes a school safety summit today in response to a spate of shootings. But schools have long been beefing up security — often in the face of diminishing funding — creating "crisis plans" and investing millions in systems they hope will deter the next deadly incident.
"If somebody's really determined to get into a school and they have a high enough caliber weapon, they're going to get in," says Alan Bragg, chief of Spring's school police. But ID checks and the like are "a huge deterrent" to most would-be criminals.

How about this radical, pinko lefty step of not giving guns to kids. I'm guessing that the rate of school shootings would drop.

"How could this happen" - What do you expect?

[TteFAboB]

This will work really well with the electronic voting machines that identify the voter by his fingerprint. Safe and reliable. :up:

[STEED]

This will work really well with the electronic voting machines that identify the voter by his fingerprint. Safe and reliable. :up:


From The Prisoner Episode 5
From the fingerprint security scene

No.2 "Full proof"

No.6 "The trouble with science is it can be perverted"

[ASWnut101]

I made my teachers lives hell on earth when ever they tried to search me, they would come to me and randomly say ok open your bag i want to look inside, then id just turn around and say "You have no right to search my bag" when they said yes i do im a teacher i quickly jumped in and said "i want a police man present, as you do not have the authority to search my bag or belonging's if you try and force me to open it then i will make an offical complaint to the education authority"

Then normaly they grumbled and walked off, one teacher didnt think id have the balls to go through with it, he later found out why not to piss me off, because i did go to the education authority and did make a complaint and he was suspended and when i said im going to the papers they sacked him.

It just made the teachers all stop and realise that i dont make idle threats, if i say it or promise it i do it.

So they wont get finger prints out of me without a copper being there end of, and if they do try and take them without consent then i will be sueing for invasion of privacy and something else i cant remember and then i can force them to destroy or erase any fingerprints they have of me.

:D its great having a good barrister :D

Cool, smart thinking.:up:

[HunterICX]

:hmm: Well I have my Fingerprint on my ID card so...I dont think the need more fingerprints

In spain btw...:up:

[Hylander_1314]

Big Brother is winning day by day, unless you think that liberty is worth the chances that bad things like good things can happen.

I prefer to take my chances.

[STEED]

It's more easy to tell children this is a good thing and so on. :nope:

We are heading in the wrong direction with this ID rubbish which is not freedom it's slavery by control.

[SUBMAN1]

It's more easy to tell children this is a good thing and so on. :nope:

We are heading in the wrong direction with this ID rubbish which is not freedom it's slavery by control.

It does noting to stop whatever it is they are trying to stop, and that thing they are trying to stop just happens to be whatever happens to be in the news that day. Nothing more.

-S

[Sailor Steve]

This will work really well with the electronic voting machines that identify the voter by his fingerprint. Safe and reliable. :up:


From The Prisoner Episode 5
From the fingerprint security scene

No.2 "Full proof"

No.6 "The trouble with science is it can be perverted"
"You can make it foolproof, but you can't make it damnfoolproof"-Robert A. Heinlein

I have a friend who fought tooth and nail to keep his kids from having to get social security cards until they were old enough to make that decision on their own. Every time a school or SS official said "It's required by law" he countered with "Show me the law that says that". They never could.

[Hylander_1314]

That's because there isn't one.

The old saying, if you tell someone a lie long enough, they will believe it to be true.

[TteFAboB]

Steve that's precisely my case. I've delayed it for as long as I could, my old enough decision was "No thanks". :D

[The Noob]

Thanks God that we in austria have not invented such BS Jet. (For you STEED. :lol:)

We are so backwards that it's hard to get a Internet here, so it will take a couple of years until PC Big Brother Madness reaches us. :-?

My fingerprints are not in any system, and it's gonna stay this way. *Digs Foxhole in the Woods* :shifty:

I was always against such things, even in my shool time with 8, where everyone else did not care.

And yes, i have stuff to hide. Nothing Major, but some stuff i don't want everyone to know about. *Gets Proxy*

If they start the "Chip Everyone!" madness i will go nuts. Don't wonder if you read "Young Crazy fella beaten up Chipin' Office". My Animals have no Chips, and it is going to stay this way. If i violate a law by it, then i'm gonna violate this law. I don't care for such Nazi-Alike Laws justified by "War on Terror" or whatever excuse they are going to find for it.

My 2 cents about big brother.

[STEED]

Thanks God that we in austria have not invented such BS Jet. (For you STEED. :lol:)

LOL :up:

[FIREWALL]

That's because there isn't one.

The old saying, if you tell someone a lie long enough, they will believe it to be true. Said by Hitler's propaganda minister ?:hmm: Or todays goverment controlled press.

[fredbass]

They just want to make sure you are who you say you are and that the wrong person doesn't get in and cause trouble. With an upswing in violence, they obviously are trying new things to see what might help. To me, it's not that big of deal, and if it keeps our children safe, then you don't have much of an argument from me.

And consent is not an option. Everyone has to do it if they want to get in. The only option the parent can take is removing the child from that school and go somewhere else that doesn't do it.

[Yahoshua]

It's a cataloguing of people.

So unless I'm a convicted felon or criminal on the run there's absolutely no need for this waste of my tax-dollars.

They can spend it on more useful things, like actually keeping track of the criminals that are supposed to have a tab on them instead of tagging every tom dick and harry and the occasional jane who walks through the door.

[tycho102]

It's a cataloguing of people.

So unless I'm a convicted felon or criminal on the run there's absolutely no need for this waste of my tax-dollars.
It is. And there are several hundred children obducted or abandoned, every year, that Social Services cannot trace to a parent or guardian. So if you were a convicted crim on the run, and your kidnap victim managed to escape, we'd have some kind of idea of where he/she came from.

The topic started on mandatory fingerprinting of children. If it's by a cop, not a private organization, then I take no issue with it. In fact, I would like to see it mandatory, along with dental records.

Furthermore, I would like to see a national DNA database. All this crap with women not knowing who the father is would stop. The only worry I have is when, like social security numbers, private corporations start their own tabulation of DNA markers and use it for identification purposes.

[Yahoshua]

It's another means to achieve slavery.

It's a powerful system and how the system is right now I would rather be stuck in a small confined cage with a rabid 115 lb German Sheperd than in a city with a beauracracy that can make mistakes with my records that are life-long and hard-hitting.

ID cards? I can understand that. Use our Drivers' Licenses, or Passports.

But I'm not going to let people take my fingerprints, my DNA, and a catloguing of my posessions without consent.

I have personal freedom, and I like it that way.

[Hylander_1314]

Well, all that stuff didn't help me with identity theft. The jerk committed all kinds of crimes that the authorities were willing to hang me for.

The only thing that helped save my bacon were all the folks I know in law enforcement, and they went to bat for me.

Bottom line, it doesn't help. Nor will the chip that you can put into your pet.

Brave New World, 1984, Farenhiet 451, even though they are stories and or film entertainment, they show that absolute power corrupts absolutely, and people can be controlled like cattle.

If you want to retain your Liberty, it requires your diligence and willingness to get involved, which most people don't want to care about.

Or as Ben Franklin put it, "they that would trade Liberty for a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty, nor safety."