NYGM Tonnage War Q's

[bill clarke]

Well I've down loaded the mod and V2.2 Upgrade, been reading the documetation, and have a couple of questions.

1. Is it absolutley necessary to install this over a clean install of SHIII V4.1 ?
I have a couple of mods, the improved smoke, improved dials and gauges, the walrus and AR196 planes, I thinks thats it.

2. I noted that the HOC's contain the exact historical ships types, does that mean Op Pedestal has a Eagle CV ?.

3. Time compression, it says I must copy the main.cfg file located in the X:\silentHunterIII\data\cfg folder to my docs silenthunterIII data folder, does "X" mean the cfg folder in the mod ?

Thanks guys,there may be more Q's yet, I'm not real bright but can lift heavy loads

[Immacolata]

As far as I know
1) A good idea. Especially if you have been modding aboot. However, if you HAVE been a good boy and used JGSME, you can roll back all mods, install NYGM and then your other mods.

2) I do not know if the specific mods you mention are included in NYGM. But why don't you try a game without any of them. Notice if you miss some of them and install them on top of NYGM using JG Softs Mod Enabler to do it, next time you launch SH3. I know that NYGM changes how planes work, but I have no clue whether your plane mods will break that or not.

3) I used SH3 commandres time compression utility to setup to do this, so I haven't copied that file. But I assume that NYGM wants you to use its own TC settings, so I asume you should copy the file FROM the NYGM mod folder into the proper place in your SH3 folder, which is ...\silentHunterIII\data\cfg\

X being your drive letter I think.

Have fun. You don't need to be bright to beat NYGM. You need to be SLY :) Sly and cunning.

[Der Teddy Bar]

bill,
Immacolata is pretty much on the money, thanks mate.

If the 'a couple of mods' those listed then I would say that the graphic ones should be reasonably safe.

However, I cannot strongly recommend enough that you start with a clean SHIII 1.4b install. Once patched, copy this directory for future occurances such as TW 2.3 :yep:, then install the NYGM TW Mod and see how it looks and what it is like.

We are also using the Improved and FPS friendly smoke textures by Marhkimov

Oh yer, roll back SH3 Cmdr first!

As for the Walsrus, I actually moded it up so that it now has a forward firing gun and the depth charges/bombs are up under the wings!

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/3576/walrusmodifiedbynygmrt4.png

[Immacolata]

Did you ever read U-boat versus Aircraft by Norman Franks and Eric Zimmerman, TDB? It does look like strafing runs were primarily performed by actual fighters or bombers, not by flying boats like the walrus and catalina. They kept it to D/Cing. But as Ive not seen any of them while playing NYGM I can't possibly comment on how lethal they are :)

Btw is it 128 or 256 that is the upper limit for TC without getting erratic aircraft patrol results?

[Sailor Steve]

I think if I was in a Walrus and had to fly right over a Kraut sub for a bombing run, I'd let my gunners have their fun. After all, they have to be there whether they shoot or not.

[Der Teddy Bar]

Did you ever read U-boat versus Aircraft by Norman Franks and Eric Zimmerman, TDB? It does look like strafing runs were primarily performed by actual fighters or bombers, not by flying boats like the walrus and catalina. They kept it to D/Cing. But as Ive not seen any of them while playing NYGM I can't possibly comment on how lethal they are :)

Btw is it 128 or 256 that is the upper limit for TC without getting erratic aircraft patrol results? I have been trying to get my hands on that book.

I do agree with you that the aircraft while heavily armoured were not used as a gun platform, at least not like SHIII, but that every opportunity was taken to use the guns.

The AI code is not accessable to us and we cannot change the way they behave to make them attack better or to wait for an opportunity rather than continually just going in again and again and.... regardless. This is the behaviour that turns the aircraft into sitting ducks...

The aircraft are best experienced at 128x. It is my understanding that from 256x and above the occurance of aircraft is sketchy. In my WaW career's and testing 128x is my maximum compression.



This is an excellent read.... http://chat.carleton.ca/~jnoakes/ram/cc/ccti41.html (http://chat.carleton.ca/%7Ejnoakes/ram/cc/ccti41.html)


Coastal Command

Tactical Instruction No. 41

Coastal Command Anti-Submarine Tactical Instruction
C.C.T.I. No. 41


Excert....

U/BOATS FIGHTING BACK.

41. It is evident that U/Boat Commanders are now tending, increasingly, to
remain on the surface and fight back with their gun armament when attacked by
aircraft. It is in fact, known that they have received orders to adopt these
tactics if surprised on the surface, in such a way as to be unable to dive to
a safe depth before the aircraft can deliver its attack.

42. When a U/Boat remains on the surface and fires at the attacking aircraft,
the decision as to the method of attack must rest with the Captain of the
aircraft who will take into consideration his armament, the degree of surprise
achieved, the presence or otherwise of A/S surface vessels and the extent to
which he is committed to the attack when the U/Boat opens fire. In general,
however, he must remember that the primary reason for his existence is, for
the time being, to kill U/Boats and that a U/Boat on the surface presents a
much better chance of a kill than one submerged. It is no coincidence that
recently, by far the larger proportion of certain or probable kills have been
U/Boats which stayed on the surface and fought back.

43. It should also be borne in mind that even a big aircraft properly handled
and using its guns well presents a difficult target for the gunners in the
necessarily cramped positions of a U/Boat, which in any sort of a sea is a
very poor gun platform and especially so if the sea is beam-on. While,
therefore, the tactics to be employed must be left to the Captain's judgment
the attack should, whenever possible, be pressed home at once, preferably from
dead ahead, making full use of the front guns to kill the U/Boat's gun crews
or at least to keep their heads down.

44. If, however, the Captain of aircraft considers the direct form of attack
undesirable, alternative tactics are to circle the U/Boat at such a range as
to bring accurate fire to bear, flying an irregular course with constant
variations in height and firing with as many guns as possible, until the
U/Boat's gunners are disabled or the U/Boat begins to dive; when the aircraft
must be prepared to make an immediate attack. While adopting these tactics, a
very careful watch through binoculars shold always be maintained to ensure
that the earliest possible warning is received of any intention on the part of
the U/Boat to submerge.

[Der Teddy Bar]

I think if I was in a Walrus and had to fly right over a Kraut sub for a bombing run, I'd let my gunners have their fun. After all, they have to be there whether they shoot or not.
That conjures up the funniest situations....

[Immacolata]

Ah I see teddy. Do you have new information since the NYGM 2.0 readme? It says greater than 256 but now its greater then 128?

:-?

I really hope they fix this for SH IV!

[Der Teddy Bar]

Ah I see teddy. Do you have new information since the NYGM 2.0 readme? It says greater than 256 but now its greater then 128?

:-?

I really hope they fix this for SH IV!
I should clarify, I have not spent time doing any compression tests, but from my indirect testing of continued aircraft responses and the AI Fight Back mod I feel that the aircraft is best experienced at 128x and I feel that even at 256x that there was possibly a degradation of aircraft responses.

All my testing and all my WaW game play is at 128x since the link between compression and aircraft responses was first discovered (from memory) by Jace11.

I will clarify that when I first started the AI Fight Back mod testing, (side note here, all NYGM mod testing is in-game as the AI etc behave differently than in canned missions) I did so at 256x. It did not seem to be right, so I reverted back to 128x and it felt (all in my mind Doc?) that the responses were better. Again time is an issue, so I did not bother confirming this feeling with numbers.

The fact that I play at 128x is probably why I have fun with the NYGM Crew Management mod, as I am not every 2 seconds having to swap out crew.

[Immacolata]

The fact that I play at 128x is probably why I have fun with the NYGM Crew Management mod, as I am not every 2 seconds having to swap out crew.

Yes. Possibly. It is just that crossing the Atlantic takes BEARDS on 128x >.<

So if I run 256 Ill risk a lil fewer aircraft or none at all? Im willing to take the chance, coz this is worse than watching paint dry.

I shot my tubes empty on some convoys heading west even before I reached my patrol quadrant. What is the renown penalty for skipping orders and just going home? Id rather not use the milch cow mod as it is "hax" by giving you full petrol and full torps.

[Der Teddy Bar]

The fact that I play at 128x is probably why I have fun with the NYGM Crew Management mod, as I am not every 2 seconds having to swap out crew.
Yes. Possibly. It is just that crossing the Atlantic takes BEARDS on 128x >.<

So if I run 256 Ill risk a lil fewer aircraft or none at all? Im willing to take the chance, coz this is worse than watching paint dry.

I shot my tubes empty on some convoys heading west even before I reached my patrol quadrant. What is the renown penalty for skipping orders and just going home? Id rather not use the milch cow mod as it is "hax" by giving you full petrol and full torps.
I play windowed so that I can do work, browse the forums, e-mails, mod etc so it is not too bad.

The 128x compression heightens the tension of getting home after a hard fought one like my 7th and/or a very successful patrol like my 8th.

NYGM does not use renown so there is no penalty or bonus for arriving at your designated quadrant.

[Immacolata]

Windowed? I had no idea you could! How? can you still hear alarms even if the window is out of foucs?

[Der Teddy Bar]

Windowed? I had no idea you could! How? can you still hear alarms even if the window is out of foucs?
I have two 21" monitors and this allows me to have the game in one while working in the other. This way SHIII is always in sight and as soon as the compression drops I drag it into the main window and its Captain on deck!

As you suggested you cannot hear the sounds, but again, I am only about 3 to 10 seconds away from being in the game.