SubMines - SLMM

[Narcosis]

Can some one infom me of the correct procedure to lay SLMMs.

When i fire them and they are travelling, i immediately rearm that same tube with a another SLMM. Is this ok?

In a game using LWAMI 103. I laid 8 mines in depth of 180 - 200 foot of water.

2 were so close, that they were nearly touching (10 - 20 feet apart). Both were pointing the same direction. I presumed this wasn't possible and that they would detonate on close proximity.

Also the mines had a few 48s go over them. Nothing happend.
Though the 48s came from a bearing of 270 from where the SLMMs were pointing. They still went over their detection arks and did not react.

can some one please advise me on the correct procedure of firing SLMMs.
Or is it that SLMMs are their for display purposes? :hmm:

[ASWnut101]

although i have not actually used a SLMM yet, I do know that they are wireguided, and rearming the tubes while one's "in flight" will cut the wire....maby thats the problem. just a pointer.

[Dr.Sid]

SLMMs are not wireguided. You can rearm just as they leave the tube.
In stock DW, torpedoes homed at SLMMs very hapilly. I used them as CMs a lot. I think in LWAMI it works too .. but I too tried to use SLMMs (and mines generaly) lately and they just did not explode. Maybe there really is some problem .. I'll try some custom scenarios tonight to be sure.

[ASWnut101]

oops, thinking about something else...

[Dr.Sid]

Hm .. I use latest DW pathc, latest LWAMI.
With Kilo's mobile mines, when mine comes to target waypoint, it WANISH. I know that LWAMI fixed mine's sound when it stopes, maybe there is some bug in this. Can somebody confirm this ?

[Molon Labe]

I just ran a test. 1.03, LW/Ami 2.03

Fired 6 mobile mines, 4 of them stopped normally, two disappeared. Not sure why. My best guess is that the doctrine tried to place them too close to the bottom, and that due to the contours of the bottom, they actually touched.

The first mine the target passed over did detonate.

http://home.insightbb.com/%7Enotenoughsand/mine1.jpghttp://home.insightbb.com/%7Enotenoughsand/mine2.jpg

[rman214]

There must be a bug somewhere in the program for slmm's. It seems they can give your position away and disappear when arriving at the aiming point.

[Molon Labe]

A follow up

LW/Ami 3.02 readme
SLMM and Mobile Mine—A fix that makes both stop making noise after they have cut out their propulsion has been applied, and are no longer useful as decoys in any sense, at least not against active torpedoes. Both mines will now actively try to find and hold their position, and will be reliably on target. This make them effective weapons within their constraints (300ft for SLMM and 450ft for Mobile mines, the range of their seekers, and the weapon will shutdown below 600ft, as these are shallow water weapons), which they were not in the stock game. Do not try to use them on a steep slope.

So, that torps aren't exploding on mines should be expected. This is a cheat available in the stock game that has been removed in the mod.

Be sure that you are using them within the depth limitations. Otherwise, they will not function properly.

In my example, I wasn't using them on a steep slope, but it gives a possible explanation for why two of my mines disappeared. There might be some tweaking that can still be done to help the reliability, but for the most part mines to work with the mod.

@MRam, I hope you were using the modded game. IIRC, in the stock game, mines never worked in the first place because they were programed to sink to the bottom. The game removes all objects (e.g., killed platforms) that sit on the bottom.

[Dr.Sid]

Sow how do you understand 'correct depths' ? It should be deep enough or shallow enough ? I for sure did not fire them from 600ft. I was at PD. Do mines sink to the bottom ? That would give sense and my bottom was more then 600 ft and then it would be logical if they vanish. But I do not see anything about sinking to the bottom.

[Molon Labe]

Sow how do you understand 'correct depths' ? It should be deep enough or shallow enough ? I for sure did not fire them from 600ft. I was at PD. Do mines sink to the bottom ? That would give sense and my bottom was more then 600 ft and then it would be logical if they vanish. But I do not see anything about sinking to the bottom.
According to the documentation the SLMM is effective in water up to 300 feet and the mobile mine up to 450 feet.

Mines do sink to the bottom in stock DW. This is why they dissapear. The mod causes the mine to hover just above the bottom so that they'll work correctly. (It also forces the mine to stop at the correct coordinates; they overshoot in stock DW.)

[Dr.Sid]

I see .. I thought that they drifted with currents. But this gives sense. Well mines worked for me in stock DW anyway. I played with them a lot in Kilo demo mission (ie VERY shallow water).

[Molon Labe]

I see .. I thought that they drifted with currents. But this gives sense. Well mines worked for me in stock DW anyway. I played with them a lot in Kilo demo mission (ie VERY shallow water).

Hmm, maybe it was fixed in 1.03 and I didn't notice.

[Narcosis]

In Lwami mod 103

the doctrine says for SLMM:

Depth:
.................................................. ...................................
( OwnAlt < -600 ) THEN {
DebugOut "Depth greater than 600ft, mine destroyed"
Shutdown

.................................................. .................................

Altitude:
.................................................. ..................................
IF ( rng < 500 ) THEN {
ordalt = ( TerrainAlt + overthebottom )
IF ( ordalt > -10 ) THEN {
ordalt = -10
} ENDIF
.................................................. ...................................

Distance:

.................................................. ................................

IF rng < 20 THEN {
DestReached = True
; DebugOut "DestReached"
.................................................. ..................................




So please correct me if i am wrong and correct my answers for LWAMI mod 103 use of SLMMS.

1. If let lose a SLMM greater than 600 feet my mines will not work.

2. If their destination is placed facing slope they will not work. This means SLMM ark of detection cannot be touching a slope that has an incline greater than 10 degrees.

3. If range greater than 20 miles, then SLMM reaches it endurance.

4. SLMMs can be placed only on a flat surface and any surface that has a 10 degree incline. Or less but not over -10 degrees decline.

5. SLMMs can only be placed at depths lower than 300 feet


The questions i ask and that i don't know the answers too.

A.
If SLMM is fired while sub is doing more than a set speed for firing SLMMs (which i dont know).
Does the SLMM not work, yet can be fired still?

B.

In the doctrine file for LWAMI MOD 103.

It says for speed
.................................................. ..................................
ordspd = ( rng / 10 - 2 )
IF ordspd > MaxSpd THEN {
ordspd = MaxSpd
} ENDIF
IF ordspd < -2 THEN {
ordspd = -2
} ENDIF
IF ( OwnSpd < 0.3 ) THEN {
OrdSpd = -0.5
IF ( OwnSpd < 0.01 ) THEN {
Stop = True
DebugOut "Engine Off"
OrdSpd = 0
} ENDIF

Am i reading this correctly. The mod doctrine is saying that the SLMM can have its speed altered depending on the speed of the sub? Though any sub going greater than 10 knots and the SLMM will not go faster than 10 knots.

[Molon Labe]

I don't really speak "doctrine," but I think that last section is the code that prevents the mine from overshooting.

[Narcosis]

Thanks guys for the help so far :up:

[Molon Labe]

Let me try to take a stab at some of those others too. Again though, I don't speak doctrine so these are just guesses.
So please correct me if i am wrong and correct my answers for LWAMI mod 103 use of SLMMS.

1. If let lose a SLMM greater than 600 feet my mines will not work.

2. If their destination is placed facing slope they will not work. This means SLMM ark of detection cannot be touching a slope that has an incline greater than 10 degrees.

3. If range greater than 20 miles, then SLMM reaches it endurance.

4. SLMMs can be placed only on a flat surface and any surface that has a 10 degree incline. Or less but not over -10 degrees decline.

5. SLMMs can only be placed at depths lower than 300 feet

1. I agree with your interpretation of this section. I think this is the same as, say, a missile failing at launch because ownship was too deep at the time of launch.

2. I think the range/orderalt code section orders the weapon begin to descend to the bottom when it is 500m from the destination.

3. I think the range/destination code sets a variable which is fed into the decleration/overshoot bug fix.

4. refer back to 2.

5. From the documentation, it sounds right.

On 2 and 4 generally, I don't think there is anything programed in the doctrine to prevent use on slopes or to impair the detection cone. As far as I know, the sensor has a given range and will explode when you are within that range. It's possible that terrain is a contraint, but I'm not aware of that. As for working on slopes, I don't think the mines are intentionally programmed not to work on them, but I think that in getting the weapon to hover, that sometimes the bottom where it is programed to stop is shallower than the bottom where the descend code was triggered, and this causes the weapon to bottom out and dissapear.