TW 2.2's Torpedo Realism v1 Mod

[Der Teddy Bar]

The NYGM Torpedo Realism v1 Mod comprises of a three areas. One change is real world change and two are abstract for a realistic real world result.

The real world change is the replication of the Germans Depth Keeping issue that occurred from 1939 to late 1942. This feature (only available with the use of SH3 Cmdr) is where 30% of the time the torpedo will be at the correct depth as set with the TDC and for the other 70% of the time that the torpedo depth will have an error from as little as 0.5 metres up to 3 metres.

The abstract changes are for a desired result and break from historical/real world to achieve a real world result.

The abstract changes are the permanent use of the magnetic pistol and a minimum depth restriction on the torpedoes. The real world result that we desire is to replicate through these are the early war high fail rate on the torpedoes as well as a more realistic use of the torpedo in heavy seas.

So why do it? Because the player knows that by disabling the magnetic pistol and setting the torpedo to a 1metre depth that they will not incur a realistic torpedo failure due to a premature detonation caused the torpedo slamming into the waves or a torpedo veering off course and/or heading towards the sea bed nor will the AI see a electric torpedo.


All the impact/magnetic pistol switch does is to disable only the magnetic pistol. The impact is never disabled. That is, with the magnetic pistol enabled the torpedo will use either the impact pistol or the magnetic pistol.


Pistol Chance for premature detonation per sea state
---------- Rough ---- Medium ---- Calm
Pi1 ---- 40% ---------- 15% -------- 5%
Pi2 ---- 15% ---------- 5% --------- 1%
Pi3 ---- 15% ---------- 5% --------- 1%
Pi4a --- 5% ---------- 1% ---------- 1%
Pi4b --- 5% ---------- 1% ---------- 1%
Pi4c --- 5% ---------- 1% ---------- 1%
Pi4d --- 5% ---------- 1% ---------- 1%
Pi6 ---- 5% ---------- 1% ---------- 1%


NOTE: the deeper the torpedo is set the less the % chance of a premature detonation is.

By permanently enabling the magnetic we increased the chance of a torpedo failure through the use of the magnetic pistol. These torpedo failures include such issues as electric battery/engine and gyroscope issues.

By setting a minimum depth of 3 metres we have for 95% of instances that a torpedo would be used, replicated the real world use. While a torpedo could be set at 1 metre depth, this in all but the most calm sea condition would most likely result in a ‘surface runner’.

As the player quickly gets new torpedoes and as a result pistols the failure rate falls to almost nothing.

As mentioned at the beginning of this section we are aiming for a real world result and that it should be remembered that a 40% chance of failure rate in heavy seas does not always equate to a 40% failure.

[MothBalls]

What if you selected the dud torpedoes option in the realism section of the game menu? Will clicking this option on/off affect the percentages?

[lurker_hlb3]

ok were's the down load link ????

[Der Teddy Bar]

@MothBalls - with 'Historic Torpedoes' off then you divide the above by 4 for both magnetic and impact pistols.

@lurker_hlb3 - we are doing the final testing of the release candidate, almost there.

[down and out]

Not another one. Can't you stick to one thread? :shifty:

[Uber Gruber]

Why do you feel the need to dish this thread, its very informative. If you knew anything about what NYGM is then you'd hold yer lip young man.

[Rose]

Not another one. Can't you stick to one thread? :shifty:

You do realize you don't have to read it, don't you?

[Sailor Steve]

Also, threads like this one get read by all who are interested, and they ask questions and then the thread disappears down the line. They don't hurt anything, and actually do add to peoples' understanding of what's going on with the mods.

By the way, I don't use NYGM OR Grey Wolves, but I'm always fascinated by what new developments are coming along.

[Der Teddy Bar]

Not another one. Can't you stick to one thread? :shifty:
A very good question, and the answer would be no.

Let me explain.

The issue of one thread covering a lot of new topics quickly becomes confusing as conversations start to overlap and the reply to a question is several pages away from where it was asked.

Then there is the issue of a user having to read a lot of stuff that they have no interest in to ensure they do not miss their topic of interest.

Again, an excellent question and I hope this helps to relieve some of your concerns.

[Kamikaze]

I'm glad I found this thread. I just did the update last night and noticed the inability to switch between Mag and Impact with my torps. After reading this thread . . . . . it makes sense and the reasons seem very thought out.

Its been awhile since I've played though . . so the other thing I saw I will chalk up to mistakes by me. But I had two torps go right under ships and not explode (I started a new campaign with flotilla 29 in the med so I believe it was 1941?). I also have DUD's temporarily OFF . . but am using SH3 commander. Their depth looked good and they were midsection of the target. With DUDs off should failures still occur?

As I said its been awhile . . .so I've forgotten . . ..

[kylania]

Could you explain what Pi1 through Pi6 mean? I'm unclear about what the different pistols are. Are those the types of torpedos you can use? (Guess I've never really looked at the torp details before!)

[Der Teddy Bar]

Could you explain what Pi1 through Pi6 mean? I'm unclear about what the different pistols are. Are those the types of torpedos you can use? (Guess I've never really looked at the torp details before!) The 'pistol' is what detonates the warhead. The Pi1 through to Pi6 are different revisions of the pistol.

While failure rate wise the Pi4 onwards to the Pi6 are the same there are some differences regarding arming distances.

Pistol Arming Distance
Pi1...........250m
Pi2...........150m
Pi3...........150m
Pi4a.........400m
Pi4b.........300m
Pi4c.........150m
Pi4d.........150m
Pi6...........150m?
TZ2.........150m?

Here is a list of what torpedo has what pistol and when
TI: Pi1; from August ’43 Pi3/TZ3
TI FAT I: Pi1; from August ’43 Pi3/TZ3
TI LUT I: Pi1; from August ’43 Pi3/TZ3
TI LUT II: Pi1; from August ’43 Pi3/TZ3
TII: Pi1
TIII: Pi2
TIII FAT II: Pi2
TIIIa LUT I: Pi2
TIIIa LUT II: Pi2
TIV: Pi4a
TV: Pi4b; from ?? Pi4c/TZ5
TVa: Pi4d/TZ5
TVb: Pi4c/TZ5
TVI: Pi6/TZ6
TVII: TZ2/TZ6
TX: Pi2
TXI: Pi4c/TZ5


By the end of June 1944 there were 341 operational shots with the TV torpedo and of these there were 33 failures or 10% !!.

The failures resolved them selves into:
17 tube runners
7 prematures
3 duds
1 tube-sticker
1 surface breaker
1 torpedo failure
3 unexplained failures.

[Der Teddy Bar]

Appendix to B.d.U.'s War Log of 1.7.1944.

Summary of the development of the torpedo arm in
operational U-boats.
Situation as of 1.7.1944.

A. Following on the summary given in the War Log of 10.5.43 and the memoranda on T V in War Logs
of 24.9.43, 1.12.43 and 1.5.44, herewith a further review of the development of the torpedo arm on
operations, under the following headings:
1) Pistols: Pi 2 and TZ 3 (Pi 3))
2) FAT I and II
3) L.U.T.
4) T III a
5) T V with TZ5 and Pi 4
6) Net-passing pistols and torpedoes
7) Equipment of boats with torpedoes.

B. 1) Pistols Pi 2 and TZ 3 )Pi 3):
Pi 2 has now been used for 18 months as non-contact pistol for the G 7E. Although relatively few Pi 2 have been fired as conditions of U-boat warfare have changed, it can nevertheless be said that this pistol has continued to prove satisfactory even with the new depth settings in force since March 1943. Operational experiences permitted the following relaxations of previous operational restrictions:

a) August 1943: "MZ in" permitted in all weathers and at depth settings of 7 meters and below.

b) March 1944: "MZ in" permitted even if there had been severe explosions close to the boat, provided the testing of the gyroscope showed no defects; the gyroscope was shown to be
more liable to damage than the MZ-unit of the pistol. Development of a non-contact pistol for the G7A from the Italian "Pi S1C" was begun in January 1943. It became ready for
operational use in August 1943 under the designation "torpedo firing unit 3" (TZ 3) and "Pi 3". The term "torpedo firing unit", used here for the first time, is used to indicate the
MZ-unit which is fixed in the head. Now only the impact pistol - Pi 3 - has to be fitted into the head on board, as hitherto, before loading into the tube.

The same operational restrictions and depth settings apply to TZ 3 as to Pi

2. Operational experiences are similar to those with Pi 2. They are not unfavorable, but the number of
operational shots fired is not enough to give a final opinion.

State of equipment: with Pi 2 all operational boats.
with Pi 3 about 50% of operational boats.

The reason for the lack of TZ 3 (Pi 3) lies in difficulties of production mainly due to the collapse of Italy. In spite of considerable efforts on the part of torpedo experimental stations, it has not so far been found possible to eliminate end-of-run detonators, as so firmly demanded by B.d.U. It has not even been possible to discover fully the reasons for them, as attempts to cause artificial end-of-run detonations by sinking torpedoes in deep water have not been successful. In theory the reasons are believed to be:
a) Firing of the impact unit when hitting the bottom;
b) Vibration of the MZ unit when the torpedo sinks to some depth and the current fails to be switched off.

Efforts are being made in the first instance to develop a current cut-off for all MZ pistols. Until this is ready the tactical disadvantage and the uncertainty as to whether or
not a hit has been made at the end of the run shown in the firing tables will continue, especially with electric torpedoes. This is particularly the case with the electric torpedo,
because the end of its run cannot be fixed exactly and one has to reckon with a certain additional run at a decreasing torpedo speed, which in FAT shots, has some importance. As conditions of attack have become more difficult for the boats and firing ranges have therefore increased, boats constantly have difficulty in deciding whether or not the detonation of the torpedo means a hit, when the explosion is only heard.

App. 1. (See Serial Order No. 45, attached).
Nothing is known of any enemy countermeasure to our non-contact pistol, except a suspicion on the part of U 532 (Junker) that magnetic gear was being used, which has not so far been confirmed.

[kylania]

Perfect, just what I was wondering. Thanks for the great details!