Who uses SH3Cmdr with multiple SH3 installs???

[JScones]

In R2.1 I added the ability to point SH3Cmdr to alternative installations of SH3 by way of a /l switch in the shortcut(s).

However, over the last few months, more and more people seem to be running multiple installations of SH3.

As such, I fear that the current /l switch is no longer as robust as it once was.

So, after I release R2.6.1 in the next week or so (refer to the SH3Cmdr R2.6 sticky thread for more info), I am toying with releasing a minor update (R2.7) which will provide a more robust way for pointing SH3Cmdr to alternate SH3 installations, including automatically managing rollbacks between each installation so as to avoid "cross-pollination". The alternate paths would be managed internally in SH3Cmdr (you'd add the paths to SH3Cmdr and you'd select the one you want when you run SH3Cmdr).

As you can imagine, such a feature may take a few weeks (part time) to build. So before I even contemplate it, I want to know how many people have multiple installations of SH3 AND are also using SH3Cmdr. I'd also be curious how you have SH3Cmdr point to your individual SH3 installations (I know some people create multiple shortcuts using the /l switch and some people install multiple copies of SH3Cmdr).

If there's enough interest, I'll pursue. Otherwise, I won't.

BTW, there's one other feature that I've wanted to add for a long time, but I'll ask about it after I get a clear indiciation on this issue...

[Der Teddy Bar]

Speaking as an admirer and user of your indispensable program I appreciate the thought and would be happy to assist in any way regarding NYGM's TW Mod.

[ReallyDedPoet]

I have three installations running, but only use SH Commander for The Grey Wolves 1.1, I did this because of not knowing if it would affect the other two.

If I do not launch the other two from SH Commander, but from stock, are they affected in any way by the one I do launch using SH Commander?

Anyway thanks for starting this, with so many mods out there it would be nice to use SH Commander with them all. Thanks for all your work on this.

[don1reed]

I use your "commander" with GW & NYGM. I just change the name of the SilentHunterIII folder to switch back 'n forth. Never used the "/l switch".

[gatordad]

I have three separate installations of SHIII (GW, TW & vanilla) along with separate installations of SH3Commander 2.6 as well. I use the /l switch as well.

I am careful that I load the proper kaluen and have a designator tagged as a suffix to each character's name (ie, John Doe GW, James Shadow TW)

Great program! :up:

[alito2k5]

I use multiple install of SH3 each with its own install of SH Commander.
Great program! Love it!:up:

[ReallyDedPoet]

So when you are saying separate installations of Commander for the different mods...., how do you do this again? Are you just being careful to name each career as it relates to the mod, then loading them in one copy of commander?

Thanks again.

[Jager]

Right now I have three installations, original 1.4b, Grey Wolves, and NYGM. I'm planning on getting UBWAC up as well. I have SH3 Cmdr point to the original "SilenthunterIII" folder by renaming the folder that has the mod that I wish to use in it. A feature like this is worth waiting for, thanks JScones!

[kylania]

I would love a new feature like that! The /l switch didn't seem to work for me too well, so I ended up with multiple installs of both, but even that didn't work as expected (I had different SH3 options for each install, yet somehow the options kept being assigned to the other install of SH3 Commander!)

A feature like the one you described would be well appreciated!

[Jimbuna]

One hell of an excellent idea ...I use multiple installations of SH3Commander :oops: and would appreciate having only one in the future :up:

[MothBalls]

You'll like this. I installed JSGME into my SH3 Commander directory. When I switch mods, I run it once for Commander, and once for SH3. Of course, after doing a rollback. I have different sets of CFG files I use on different mods.




While you are here, don't know if this has been suggested before or not, I'd like to suggest:

In a few of the threads I saw people said they didn't use Commander because of the sabatoge mod or random events and they weren't savy enough to edit the cfg files.

I think it would be great that if Commander was to make any changes, that it would be a user selectable option and not make any changes that the user doesn't select.

I wouldn't know where to put it, but when you click SH3 options, it says:
Career Options
Text Settings
Gameplay Settings
Time Compression
<add>
Sabotge Settings
Random Event Settings

I think more people would use this great tool if they were given full control over what it does. It's the "unknows" that people don't like.

BTW: Thanks for the work you put into this and your contributions to the community.

[Meridian]

I'd definitely like to see this function implemented please JS. Anything to make life easier and smotther when running SH3 can't be a bad thing.

[MothBalls]

One other thought….

Is there a way you can make Commander automatically roll back when SH3 exits? It might solve some of the cross pollination issues.

In the event of a game crash, a rollback could be performed the next time Commander starts.

When you run Commander you “test” for the existence of SH3 weather and execute it when it is present. Could you drop an identifier file into the SH3 directory so you would know if there was an abnormal exit and roll back based on that?

I’m not a programmer but I was just thinking of possible ways to solve some minor issues. I have no idea if these things would/could work.

[supposedtobeworking]

Ditto on the automatic rollback....then I would not forget to do it..

I tried running SH3Cmdr with three installations using the l/switch, but somehow managed to screw things up....think I forgot to rollback one time actually. so I had to completely uninstall everything, now I only use SH3cmdr for one installation, so this feature you are talking about would be great for idiots like me.

[kylania]

How would automatic rollback work with a saved game?

Right now I start a patrol using SH3 Commander, but if I have to save I always just start the game normally, so that I don't get stuck with say different values or crew losses with each restart of a saved game. Is that the right way of doing things? And how would this work with an automatic rollback upon exit?

[Der Teddy Bar]

One other thought….

Is there a way you can make Commander automatically roll back when SH3 exits? It might solve some of the cross pollination issues.

In the event of a game crash, a rollback could be performed the next time Commander starts.

When you run Commander you “test” for the existence of SH3 weather and execute it when it is present. Could you drop an identifier file into the SH3 directory so you would know if there was an abnormal exit and roll back based on that?

I’m not a programmer but I was just thinking of possible ways to solve some minor issues. I have no idea if these things would/could work. The most practical, safest, efficient way is what Jaeson has proposed, which is a version of Sh3 Cmdr that supports multiple installs.

Jaeson is a quality programmer and he will have considered all possible avenues before making this proposal.

[GT182]

JS, could you make a patch for 2.5 to have it work with multipul installs? There are those of us that like and use only 2.5

I'm only using one install of SHIII and SH3 Commander 2.5, for now. I like 2.5 over 2.6 because of the features it has. One is it automatically rolls back everytime it's run for my career, and never fails to either. Some of the features in 2.6 I didn't care for, so after looking at it a bit I decided to stick with 2.5. But no mater what, you've done a great job wih all versions of SH3 Commander. To coin a phrase, "Pure genius".

[mountainmanUK]

I've been using SH3 Commander since 2.5, but been running multiple installs since v2.6 came out. I tried a single installation, with /l switching, but my old memory kept letting me down, so I got myself cross-pollenated a few times!! I have been running 4 multiple SH3 installs, with 4 corresponding installs of SH3Cmdr, for the past 6 weeks or so, with absolutely NO problems at all. It did take a few extra minutes to get all the correct desktop icons etc. labelled correctly to match, but well worth the effort!!
I would really appreciate ANY of the new features that would improve SH3Cmdr even more! The "automatic rollback" plan is great, but I'm still hoping that you will release the "Log Book" feature that you mentioned a while back, that you had virtually abandoned working on!;)
So far as I'm concerned, SH3Cmdr, and JSGME, have got to be THE most important Mods ever created for SH3. Thanks for all the work you've put in!!!

Cheers

[Der Teddy Bar]

How would automatic rollback work with a saved game?

Right now I start a patrol using SH3 Commander, but if I have to save I always just start the game normally, so that I don't get stuck with say different values or crew losses with each restart of a saved game. Is that the right way of doing things? And how would this work with an automatic rollback upon exit? By not starting saved games with Sh3 Cmdr you will be missing out on some of the best Sh3 Cmdr features with the random breakdowns/failures etc

Also, SH3 Cmdr does not remove crew mid patrol.

With regards to the NYGM Torpedo Depth Keeping Issue Mod, which is used during the historical dates of 1939 to late 1942, the depth error value is a random occurance recalced with each launch of the game through SH3 Cmdr where there is a 30% chance that no depth error will occur and a 70% chance that an error from as little as 0.5 metres up to 3 metres will occur. If you do not load saved games with SH3 Cmdr the depth error will not be recalced which will mean that if your depth error is set to be 2 metres out, it will not have a chance to be reset to 0 metres or at least to a lesser depth.

[kylania]

Ooh, ok!! I thought all the random things that SH3 Commander did was saved with the save game file and would be changed (or lost from an eariler value) each time. Well, this certainly helps! Thanks!

[MothBalls]

Jaeson is a quality programmer and he will have considered all possible avenues before making this proposal.

Of that I have no doubt. It's a great program and very well thought out.

I was just thinking out loud trying to add something to the open discussion. I hope nobody thinks I was telling him how to do it. I'm used to working in collaborative environments where we all throw in ideas and try to end up with the best solutions.

[mayandlex]

I have installs of GW, GWCarotio, RUB, IUB, NYGM and Standard, all run on one install of Commander. Each install has its own shortcut to Commander which targets the appropriate install with the \l switch. I have had very few problems with this system, some I think caused by inadvertantly loading an incorrect Captain,( ie loading a GW file into the RUB game). I would have to say that my favourite install is my heavily modded RUB.
Cheers keep up the good work.

[JScones]

OK, after the R2.6.1 "maintenance fix", I'll work on an R2.7. Again, the main aim will be to NOT interfere with, or break compatibility with, any of the major mods, so changes will be more internal focussed.

I have a few other internal things to add as well - perhaps an option to toggle the malfunction effects; a fix for the missing repair officer (if someone can respond to my question on the "Missing Crewman (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=98283)" thread), and if time permits, an enhancement to the realistic crew transfers feature which will provide for a *sometimes* replacement of crew transferred out of the boat with a new variably experienced crewman. I've also read up on crew administration in u-boats and found more specific transfer "rules" plus now have a good table listing average u-boat crew ranks and qualifications, so I may tinker with the realistic crew lists.

I might also remove the simulated fuel resupply strategy (ie increased fuel range in the VIIC during 1942/43) because I think the milk cow addition has firmly become a part of SH3.

[Der Teddy Bar]

Any possibility of getting a NYGM Crew Management option etc?

[JScones]

Any possibility of getting a NYGM Crew Management option etc?
I know Observer sent me, before R2.6 was released, an NYGM inclusion to the "Crew fatigue models.cfg" file but it couldn't be added because there were values modified in a Basic.cfg block that SH3Cmdr doesn't cater for in the fatigue model file.

Is this what you were thinking?

If so, I'm happy to revisit it, as crew fatigue models (for want of a better collective title) have come a long way from simply adjusting CREW values and FATIGUE_COEF values. Plus I now have more robust code that I am using with the Static and Randomised events features; I can easily "piggy back" this code, meaning that a "fatigue model" block could include adjustments to *any* value in Basic.cfg and thus extending support to NYGM's model. Only issue though is that players that have added their own models will need to "translate" them to the new structure, but this is a minor inconvenience if the result supports players that want to try NYGM's model, or any other model that is developed that changes more than just the basics.

If, however, I am right off track here, just let me know what you were thinking. ;)

[VonHelsching]

JS,

Seeing this thread, I just had an idea...It's more JSGME related though.

Since it is a fact that people are forgetting the Rollback button so often:

a) Why don't you put a reminder screen in JSGME ("Don't forget to Rollback before applying", or "Rollback first, then apply")
b) Make an automatic "rollback" link from JSGME ---> SH3Cdr

How does that sound?

BTW, keep up the good work. Let's hope that after the release of GWX, I'll have a chance firing the game throught SH3Crd, to play, for a change...

Von

[JScones]

The problem is that JSGME is generic. It works with many games in addition to SH3. Thus I'd be reluctant to start making it application specific in case I broke its flexibility.

Were I to have my time over, I would build SH3Cmdr somewhat differently. The first thing I'd do is build a small TSR which runs when SH3 is launched and stays in memory until SH3 is exited. It would then, behind the scenes, automatically roll back SH3. Problem then gone.

But it's not something that I could easily incorporate now as it would require changes to the core of SH3Cmdr. Plus if I were to incorporate such a thing, I'd want to make a number of other core changes. Essentially, I'd be re-writing SH3Cmdr from scratch.

When I start working on R2.7, I may look at a basic "reminder message" approach which displays a "don't forget to rollback" message after SH3 has exited.

[Der Teddy Bar]

Any possibility of getting a NYGM Crew Management option etc? I know Observer sent me, before R2.6 was released, an NYGM inclusion to the "Crew fatigue models.cfg" file but it couldn't be added because there were values modified in a Basic.cfg block that SH3Cmdr doesn't cater for in the fatigue model file.

Is this what you were thinking?

If so, I'm happy to revisit it, as crew fatigue models (for want of a better collective title) have come a long way from simply adjusting CREW values and FATIGUE_COEF values. Plus I now have more robust code that I am using with the Static and Randomised events features; I can easily "piggy back" this code, meaning that a "fatigue model" block could include adjustments to *any* value in Basic.cfg and thus extending support to NYGM's model. Only issue though is that players that have added their own models will need to "translate" them to the new structure, but this is a minor inconvenience if the result supports players that want to try NYGM's model, or any other model that is developed that changes more than just the basics.

If, however, I am right off track here, just let me know what you were thinking. ;)
Jaeson,
Do not know how I missed you reply on the 23rd.

Yes it is and I have sent you a PM.

[robj250]

I'm not a programmer and I am trying to run 2 installs. 1 being the stock SH3 heavily modded (and I cannot redo it because I forget how I got some of the mods to work as they were in a foreign language) and I recently installed TGW1.1a.
I use SH3 Commander and I prefer to use version 2.5 as I do not like some of the changes made in 2.6. So it would be greatly appreciated if somehow SH3 CMDR 2.5 could work something like MultiSH3. I't s pain to have to keep changing file names. I cannot get CMDR to work with TGW1.1a I have tried the "l" switch thingy and as Kylania will tell you, I have had a terrible time trying to get the multi-use to work. For now, I am only using SH3 CMDR with my stock SH3. Another thing I am really having problems with is with Wolfie Tweek Pack. I can only tweek one game and not the other. Since a lot os us are trying Multi installs, it would be great to have SH3 CMDR 2.5 and Wolfie Tweek work with the multi installs. JS has done a terrific job in putting together such a great program and I know that the requests we are making of him must be a tremendous burden. You are doing a great job Jaeson. :up:

[GT182]

Jaeson, when I start SH3 Commander to run SHIII I see it rolls back files. Is this the same as the Rolling back that VonHelsching is talking about.

I'm only using one install of SHIII so far. That will changes soon when GWX comes out, but only if I'm still online if the sale of our house goes thru.

[Sailor Steve]

I can answer that. No, the auto-rollback that happens every time is not the same. You must click the button that says "Rollback SHIII" before installing anything new, or you might have problems.

[GT182]

Ok, and I've just found that out before reading your answer. I put in the SHIII Bearing mod but not by using JSGME to install it. It didn't work so I put the original tga back in. Now no tga is found for the sub when in the nav map and the TDC map. And I know why now... I didn't Roll back. ;)

[Potoroo]

Rather than automatically rolling back each time SH3 exits perhaps you could consider making a list of available SH3 installations and storing each installation's data in different sections of the existing SH3 Commander ini files. That way each time you start SH3 from SH3 Commander with a given installation selected it would automatically go to the appropriate data. This would mean users would only ever need to have one installation of SH3 Commander and one shortcut to it (making the /l switch redundant). It may also save on code modification since the only real change to data access is that first an installation selection must be made and the appropriate data subsection identifed accordingly.

IOW, in the main SH3 Commander screen there would be an expandable tree list or drop-down list of available installations, from which the user selects one. The appropriate careers and SH3 Commander options would appear. From then on it would work as it does now (although I do like the suggestion of making the randomisation and sabotage options appear as SH3 Commander options like the others do).

[Potoroo]

I've been asked to expand MultiSH3 to make the process of creating multiple installations of SH3 easier for less experienced users. Please post suggestions, etc, in the MultiSH3 thread (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=356883#post356883).

[Jimbuna]

Rather than automatically rolling back each time SH3 exits perhaps you could consider making a list of available SH3 installations and storing each installation's data in different sections of the existing SH3 Commander ini files. That way each time you start SH3 from SH3 Commander with a given installation selected it would automatically go to the appropriate data. This would mean users would only ever need to have one installation of SH3 Commander and one shortcut to it (making the /l switch redundant). It may also save on code modification since the only real change to data access is that first an installation selection must be made and the appropriate data subsection identifed accordingly.

IOW, in the main SH3 Commander screen there would be an expandable tree list or drop-down list of available installations, from which the user selects one. The appropriate careers and SH3 Commander options would appear. From then on it would work as it does now (although I do like the suggestion of making the randomisation and sabotage options appear as SH3 Commander options like the others do).

What your saying in the above post would...IMHO be the perfect answer/way for most people :yep: ...keep it as simple as poss :D :up: