Mod Etiquette Question

[MothBalls]

I’m new around here so I’d like to ask a question before I do something bad/wrong.

I have kids that play SH3 and use the supermods. However, they are young so I had to do some tweaking to make it easier and fun for them. I poked around in the .zon, .dat .cfg’s, etc. and made it so they could get any boat, any weapon, at any flotilla, more ammo, upgrades, etc. and made it easier to sink ships, etc., leaving most of the niceties of the mods in tact. (I’m a techie so it was pretty easy to configure it out.)

I did all these customizations jsgme compatible so I could just roll them in and out. Then I wondered if other people might want them. They are basically easy mode mods for each of the supermods.

But before offering any of them up, I thought it best to ask first. I respect and appreciate all the time and effort that the various teams put into their mods, and I don’t want to upload anything that would bastardize them or ruin the hours of hard work.

So is it a good thing or a bad thing?

[kylania]

Good thing!! As long as you don't host it on rapidshare. :)

[Der Teddy Bar]

I’m new around here so I’d like to ask a question before I do something bad/wrong.

I have kids that play SH3 and use the supermods. However, they are young so I had to do some tweaking to make it easier and fun for them. I poked around in the .zon, .dat .cfg’s, etc. and made it so they could get any boat, any weapon, at any flotilla, more ammo, upgrades, etc. and made it easier to sink ships, etc., leaving most of the niceties of the mods in tact. (I’m a techie so it was pretty easy to configure it out.)

I did all these customizations jsgme compatible so I could just roll them in and out. Then I wondered if other people might want them. They are basically easy mode mods for each of the supermods.

But before offering any of them up, I thought it best to ask first. I respect and appreciate all the time and effort that the various teams put into their mods, and I don’t want to upload anything that would bastardize them or ruin the hours of hard work.

So is it a good thing or a bad thing? Thankyou for the courtacy.

It is sort of a funny area as these changes sound as if they may take away some key areas of the respective NYGM & GW mods. Which in itself is not an issue when it is clearly stated for the end user.

There is the issue of breaking unrelated items that use the same files.

At the end, as long as ALL the changes are noted clearly and users know everything that is changed then I see no issue from out corner.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

I’m new around here so I’d like to ask a question before I do something bad/wrong.

I have kids that play SH3 and use the supermods. However, they are young so I had to do some tweaking to make it easier and fun for them. I poked around in the .zon, .dat .cfg’s, etc. and made it so they could get any boat, any weapon, at any flotilla, more ammo, upgrades, etc. and made it easier to sink ships, etc., leaving most of the niceties of the mods in tact. (I’m a techie so it was pretty easy to configure it out.)

I did all these customizations jsgme compatible so I could just roll them in and out. Then I wondered if other people might want them. They are basically easy mode mods for each of the supermods.

But before offering any of them up, I thought it best to ask first. I respect and appreciate all the time and effort that the various teams put into their mods, and I don’t want to upload anything that would bastardize them or ruin the hours of hard work.

So is it a good thing or a bad thing?

First off... Welcome to Subsim!:up: :up: :up:

Secondly, as long as you make an honest effort to credit those who's work you have modified, you've got no worries. Failing to do so will get you hanged from the nearest yard-arm as a few here have found out the hard way.

Someday, there will be another U-boat sim... you never know if some of the young submariners that visit here... and use your mod will be the ones that build the next incarnation of The Grey Wolves.:arrgh!:

History must be preserved. Those who forget it are doomed to repeat it. For many, such as myself, SH3 has been an excercise in taking a moment to step into the shoes of a former wartime enemy... and to walk a mile. As it turns out... they were people who put their pants on one leg at a time... just like us. The international community that you can find here simply drives that point home.

These are concepts that are generally lost on the young. I tip my hat to you... and what you are considering.

GO FOR IT!!! :sunny: :sunny: :sunny:

[MothBalls]

Thanks for the replies.

If I'm going to do this, I'm going to do it right. I'll make sure it's well documented and tested. Most of it is just making the stuff available and toning down the damage models. I'll leave the harder changes out, reduce the variables.


My daughter is the NYGM fan, she likes playing cat n’ mouse with the destroyers. She actually hunts for task groups and charges them on the surface until they see her and spends the next 2 hours dodging them from the deep. My son likes TGW to shoot down planes and generally make things go boom. I’m the War Aces fan, gotta love the historic battles. (My son even taught me how to use the manual TDC)



Some people are against letting kids play war games. I use it as a teaching tool. I want to make sure they:

Understand just how terrible war actually is.

Appreciate the sacrifices and heroism by so many.

Understand the suffering and hardship caused by wars.

Don't hold any hatred towards the people or nationalities who had to fight the wars. They were just doing what they had to, doing what they were ordered to do, regular people just like the rest of us forced to endure the misakes of their leaders.

People all over the world are generally good, kind, all citizens of the same planet who didn't get to pick where they were born, but they all have the same right to be here and live in peace.

Understand that people don't make war, governments do.

Make sure they understand everyone gave something, many gave all.

[The Noob]

You have a brain filled with useful stuff! :up:

Good Viewpoint. And good "Kiddie-Mod" idea. Maybe they try the Full Difficulty Later on, it they are more addicted...:lol:

[ref]

Some people are against letting kids play war games. I use it as a teaching tool. I want to make sure they:

Understand just how terrible war actually is.

Appreciate the sacrifices and heroism by so many.

Understand the suffering and hardship caused by wars.

Don't hold any hatred towards the people or nationalities who had to fight the wars. They were just doing what they had to, doing what they were ordered to do, regular people just like the rest of us forced to endure the misakes of their leaders.

People all over the world are generally good, kind, all citizens of the same planet who didn't get to pick where they were born, but they all have the same right to be here and live in peace.

Understand that people don't make war, governments do.

Make sure they understand everyone gave something, many gave all.

I couldn't agree more with your way of thinking :up:

Ref

[JScones]

I didn't realise until your PM that you were also considering SH3Cmdr changes.

Your question has raised a somewhat ironic and coincidental issue which made me chuckle considering some topics posted here of late.

The SH3Cmdr Licence Agreement, which has remained unchanged for over 14 months, specifically states that users "may not alter this software in any way, including changing or removing any messages or windows.". In Australian Courts at least, precedent has determined that "software" extends beyond the main executable file to also include any data file or table that forms part of the software package.

Oops. Of course it is not my intent to prevent users from modifying the data files and re-distributing for free - in fact I strongly encourage it; it's the whole ethos behind SH3Cmdr!

Essentially, when modifying SH3Cmdr data files, I'll only get upset if:

a) modified SH3Cmdr data files are released in a full "alternate" SH3Cmdr install;
b) the main SH3Cmdr executable or HTML documentation is modified;
c) the data file modifications are released for profit or fee;
d) data files are modified in a way that crashes or breaks SH3Cmdr or SH3, in other words, brings SH3Cmdr into disrepute. But I won't care so much if the modder accepts all responsibility for the changes that he/she made. ;)

Other than that, and provided that the other terms of the Licence Agreement are adhered to, I don't have any problems. But thanks for asking. :up:

Looks like I may need to review the Licence Agreement (hehe, I also can't claim copyright for lists of German names!!!)...

[MothBalls]

Thanks for the reply. Here's a copy of the draft readme below:

All I wanted to change for SH3 Commander were cfg files, no other changes are made to the program. (How could I improve on such a fantastic tool?) I've been extensively testing and haven't had any issues yet, other than the kids complaining about being non-paid beta testers. :) The intent is to make it easier and fun for the kids to play.

The mod will be free and not resold.
I still wanted the kids to be able to use Commander for the other options that are available, so this was my work around.

[MothBalls]

Here's a rough draft of the readme. It isn't complete and I haven't included credits for other stuff I've used so far:

================================================== ==============
I made this mod so my younger kids can play and enjoy SH3. My kids really love the supermods but the difficulty factor was a bit too high for them, so this mod tones it down to an almost arcade level.

This revision has been specifically designed and tested by modifying files from the Grey Wolves supermod only. I would not use it on any other mods. I will be releasing similar versions for the other supermods in the near future.

If you have problems or issues with this mod, please feel free to email or PM me. Please do NOT contact The Grey Wolves team or JScones about issues. This mod hasn't been endorsed or tested by them. I don't want to disturb them as they are busy with other releases.

Basis:

Stock SH3 patched to 1.4b
The Grey Wolves v.1.1a.


Changes:

All subs, weapons and upgrades are free, no renown charges.

All subs are available at any valid flotilla at any time.

All upgrades are available at any time.

There are no days in base penalty for subs or upgrades.

You may change to any available flotilla, after 1 patrol, without penalty.

Defaulted all sub torpedo loadouts to T VII - Steinbarsch Walter (G7ut)

All other torpedoes available to load from stock, anywhere, any time.

Increased weapons loadout for deck guns and AAA guns.

Restored the orange circle when submerged.

Restored default icon colors on the map. (Enemy=red Friendly=blue Neutral=green)

Slightly increased deck gun and AAA accuracy.

Restored ship damage/sinking models to approximately stock levels.

Deck and flak guns can be manned in any weather.

No Fatigue Model.

No Mines or Subnets.

Increased engine upgrades to give subs more surface speed at ahead flank. Speeds are close to normal speeds at other settings for handling in harbors, ahead flank is very fast.



Installation:

If you are not using JSGME, you should be (link below). If not, then just unzip into your SH3 data directory and overwrite the files, and cross your fingers. Backup your original files first.

If you are using SH3 Commander, as with any mod, please be sure to do a rollback before installing this mod. I've also included new CFG files to use with SH3 Commander to make it compatible. See the SH3 Commander section for details.

Directory structure is JSGME compatible. Just unzip into your mods folder and enable. Be sure to select the correct version for the time frame you are playing in.

If you are mid-patrol during a year change, December 1941 or December 1944, finish your patrol normally. Exit the game, roll back SH3 Commander (if used) and roll out the old mod using JSGME. Roll in the new years mod and continue your career. There should be no adverse issues, none discovered while testing.


The subs that are only available for a few years created loading issues in later years. My solution was to just make multiple versions of the same mod, you just select the one needed for the years you are playing in. They are identical except for the sub availability dates. The directory structure names tell you which one to select.




SH3 Commander Compatibility:

If you use the stock SH3 commander, it will have adverse affects on availabilities if you check the "Correct U-boat Availability" option. I have included some config files to use with SH3 Commander v2.6 and this mod:

Modifications made will:

Increase crush depths to 400 meters(or more)
Removed the "Sabotage Mod" sections, no random equiment failures.
Removed the "Correct U-Boat Avalibility Dates" section.
Displacement information used for generating random tonnage only increases values.
The rest of the options should work normally.

Just unzip the cfg files to your \SH3 Commander\Cfg directory and overwrite the files. I have also included the original cfg files so that you may restore them.


Known Issues:

The crew does not put on wet/cold weather gear in bad weather.

When submerged with the snorkel up, ahead flank will cause your boat to occasionally breach the surface. I adjusted the other speed settings to compensate, just use ahead full or slower and you'll be fine. This was intended to let you outrun destroyers on the surface, yet still maneuver safely while in port.




Credits and thanks to:

<Pending>
The Grey Wolves Team
JScones
Other modders
My kids who have been testing it extensivly.
Gizzmoe - No subnet-mines mod by


SH3 Commander and Generic Mod Enabler available at:
http://www.users.on.net/~jscones/software/

The Grey Wolves Supermod can be found at:
http://www.users.on.net/%7Ejscones/TGW/




This mod is freeware and intended for personal use only. It can not be used or packaged for resale.