Really love GW, but right now I'm really miffed

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

I read all the readme documentation. Read threads, FAQs and the like. So I'm very aware of the 'no upgrade, no change' before first patrol warning (although I have to say I never had a problem with the stock SHIII).

I created a new Kapitan and career, and immediately went on patrol. No upgrades. No changes. I didn't even add additional crew, or change the stock torpedo loadout. I just went immediately on a mission.

Guess what?

null renown. null awards. nada. nothing. Although *I* did get a promotion.

Whoopee.

:damn:

I'm a bit miffed. I followed the instructions, and did everything according to the book, and I still got screwed.

As much as I really like GW 1.1, frankly it isn't worth it to me if I have to sweat every mission wondering if I'm gonna get screwed at the end. I never, ever had this problem with the stock game, or with RUb. And I've played them a lot.

I'll give this thread a day to see what responses I get before I yank GW.

Albrecht von Hesse

[SilentOtto]

Wow, just 24 hours, I can feel the tension building up...

[HW3]

IIRC Someone wrote that if you do a save just outside the harbour before docking, then dock and get the null renoun, reload the last save and dock again and you will get the renoun, awards, ect.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

I read all the readme documentation. Read threads, FAQs and the like. So I'm very aware of the 'no upgrade, no change' before first patrol warning (although I have to say I never had a problem with the stock SHIII).

I created a new Kapitan and career, and immediately went on patrol. No upgrades. No changes. I didn't even add additional crew, or change the stock torpedo loadout. I just went immediately on a mission.

Guess what?

null renown. null awards. nada. nothing. Although *I* did get a promotion.

Whoopee.

:damn:

I'm a bit miffed. I followed the instructions, and did everything according to the book, and I still got screwed.

As much as I really like GW 1.1, frankly it isn't worth it to me if I have to sweat every mission wondering if I'm gonna get screwed at the end. I never, ever had this problem with the stock game, or with RUb. And I've played them a lot.

I'll give this thread a day to see what responses I get before I yank GW.

Albrecht von Hesse

What you have read in our readme is a suggested workaround for the STOCK SILENT HUNTER III save-game routines that are screwed up.

The GW dev team did not modify said routines... they are hard-coded in the executable which we do not touch.

You have been bitten by a random bug that happens from time to time. It is not related to GW. If this has not happened to you yet (using stock SH3 or any of the other mods) you have simply been lucky.

So before you start throwing a tantrum and blaming the GW dev team, remember that there is always more than one thing that can be the problem.

[VonHelsching]

I've had this problem with the stock game. You were just "lucky".

Von

[JScones]

How and when you save games mid-patrol also determines whether this well-known stock SH3 bug rears its head. Saving too close to the "action" has the potential to create problems (and more than just no credit). Saving before the ship is actually recognised by SH3 as sunk definately means no credit for the kill.

Best bet is to save your patrol once just prior to docking. Then if you have the problem, reload the save and dock again. This tends to fix it.

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

IIRC Someone wrote that if you do a save just outside the harbour before docking, then dock and get the null renoun, reload the last save and dock again and you will get the renoun, awards, ect.

Thanks for the tip. I reloaded the last save I had, and redocked again. This (second, repeat) time, for whatever reason, things worked just fine.

I'll just make a habit to save 100 klicks out every patrol, just in case.

Thanks for the advice!

Albrecht von Hesse

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

How and when you save games mid-patrol also determines whether this well-known stock SH3 bug rears its head. Saving too close to the "action" has the potential to create problems (and more than just no credit). Saving before the ship is actually recognised by SH3 as sunk definately means no credit for the kill.

Best bet is to save your patrol once just prior to docking. Then if you have the problem, reload the save and dock again. This tends to fix it.

Thanks for the tip! It is greatly appreciated!

It might be a 'well-known stock SH3 bug' to you all here, but in over 400 patrols I've never had a problem. So I was rather surprised to have it happen this time.

Thanks again!

Albrecht von Hesse

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

What you have read in our readme is a suggested workaround for the STOCK SILENT HUNTER III save-game routines that are screwed up.

The GW dev team did not modify said routines... they are hard-coded in the executable which we do not touch.

You have been bitten by a random bug that happens from time to time. It is not related to GW. If this has not happened to you yet (using stock SH3 or any of the other mods) you have simply been lucky.

So before you start throwing a tantrum and blaming the GW dev team, remember that there is always more than one thing that can be the problem.

Ok, first off I'd like to make something clear.

I am, and was, aware that GW did not modify that routine. Your documentation (which I'd like to say was very clear, explicit and detailed, as well as easy to understand) made it very clear that you didn't, and don't, modify the executable files of SHIII.

Over the course of playing SHIII (and the RUb mod of that) I've run, easy, over 400+ patrols. In all that time I've never had problems with saving games, or of ending a patrol and not being awarded renown, medals, etc. The very first new career/patrol I run with GW screws up. Fair or not, I'm only human :doh: , and hopefully you'll understand why I concluded what I did. Anyone that troubleshoots or diagnoses software pretty much will do the same: if something has always worked, and a file change is made and now the system craps, well . . .

As it has been pointed out to me (and, after digging deeper through old posts) it seems I've simply been lucky up to now.

I'd like to conclude by saying two things:

1) I apologize for jumping to an unwarranted conclusion and blaming GW. I was frustrated, and did have a reasonable evidence that seemed to support my conclusion, but neither really justify or excuse accusing GW as I did.

2) Nothing is more frustrating (I know from personal experience, alas) than volunteering one's time and effort, pouring heart and soul into a project, especially one as complex as GW, only to have people bitch and moan. That can be very depressing and discouraging. I'm sorry if I've contributed to that. I do recognize the immense effort, detail and love the GW team has placed into your work, even if it doesn't appear I do.

Albrecht von Hesse

[Kpt. Lehmann]

No worries.

Giving us a deadline to respond was the aggravating part.:shifty:

LOL, lets just say we're a bit weary of being accused of causing all of SH3's stock issues/problems... and there's a fair amount of them that cannot be fixed currently.:damn:

Regarding SH3's quirks... we've fixed a great many of them:know: ... but the quirks usually fit into the "minor inconvenience" pile.

Unfortunately, I don't believe they've all been documented in one place... If they are I hope to see that list and incorporate it into our readme.

We've got a few of the SH3 known issues documented in our upcoming GWX readme... but we are always looking for what we left out.

[kiwi_2005]

No worries.

Giving us a deadline to respond was the aggravating part.:shifty:

LOL, lets just say we're a bit weary of being accused for causing all of SH3's stock issues/problems... and there's a fair amount of them that cannot be fixed currently.:damn:

Regarding SH3's quirks... we've fixed a great many of them:know: ... but the quirks usually fit into the "minor inconvenience" pile.

Unfortunately, I don't believe they've all been documented in one place... If they are I hope to see that list and incorporate it into our readme.

We've got a few of the SH3 known issues documented in our upcoming GWX readme... but we are always looking for what we left out.

Just one request. Please put in an option during installation where we can choose dark or stock game water when submerged. Been playing GW and dont like the underwater effect it does. Can't see my sub! Still its a great mod.

[DanCanovas]

well if its any help, after I installed GW mod my first mission gave me no renown etc...it hasnt happened since however so I can cope with that given the massive advantages GW has over stock.

[GT182]

AVH and Dan you didn't mention following orders for your patrol. The only thing I'd ask about for getting no renoun for a 24 your patrol is whether or not you patroled the "required 24 hours in your assigned grid"? If not and you didn't sink anything anywhere else, then no renoun will be given..... stock SHIII, GW mod or any other career mod.

You both might have done so but I had to ask, seeing you said nothing about it. ;)

[cobalt]

don't feel bad, half my save games load up to me falling 500 meters beneath the ocean and ruining my career. ****ing sh3.

[FIREWALL]

I drop to 20 mtrs and all stop then save and exit when my wife "THE ADMIRAL" drags me off to do something together I just know i'm not going to ejoy.:cry:

[DanCanovas]

well the embarassing thing for me whenI first installed GW mod was returning to base 10 mins after I left it. I recieved a message saying RETURN TO BASE and didnt realise that it was message traffic to other boats lol. so back I went and then wondered afterwards why it had happened.

[The Munster]

Hi, my tip to you is to Save after each sinking of a ship just in case :yep: ; as you probably know, you can exit or continue Mission afterwards.

[bigboywooly]

I drop to 20 mtrs and all stop then save and exit when my wife "THE ADMIRAL" drags me off to do something together I just know i'm not going to ejoy.:cry:

:rotfl: :rotfl:
Though there is also some problems saving submerged
But hey if you have no problem carry on :up:

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Again, with apologies, part of my frustration was a combination of the following:

About 15-20 years ago I had played a sub game. Don't remember the name, only that it was US sub in the Pacific. It belonged to a friend of a friend, and I played it non-stop for about 8 hours. At the time I didn't own a computer, but that was almost enough to have me buy one. I have always enjoyed, loved and been fascinated by submarines. Had I realized the US Navy still had attack submarines (I thought they just had boomers) I would have gone into the sub service rather than the United States Army Special Forces.

About 6 months ago my wife bought me several flight simulator games, as well as a pair of very nice joystick and throttles ( I like flying, too; don't have my licence yet but I have flown, and had I not been cursed with needed glasses would have applied to the Air Force even over the sub service). After playing flight sims for about a month I started wondering if anyone made sub sim games, recalling the delightful one I'd played many years ago.

Web searching quickly showed me about Silent Hunter (all three incarnations) and the description left me salivating. The reviews, both players and critics alike, only made it worse.

No stores sell it now (that I could find). I wound up downloading it (which I'm glad I did, as downloading it seems to avoid the Starforce issue) and within an hour I was hooked. And I do mean hooked.

Within a week I was playing careers at 100% realism less the manual torpedo targetting (although I do have a career set at 100% . . . gotta love only encountering ships during heavy precip, heavy fog, when at 100%, especially when you take care to approach to visually ID nationality flags). That includes ending missions by actually backing into my slip and coming to dead stop inside. I've done mission editing, and have hosted and many online multiplayer games.

I started reading up about GW, and although for the most part the reviews are glowing, even the negative ones didn't turn me off, since mostly they complained about it making the game too hard. From what I saw, those complaints (asking for forgivness in advance if I accidentally offend any of you) seemed to be from gamers (players who play for fun and to rack up kills and points) rather than the simmers (players who go for realism and immersion), sl all they did was really whet my appetite even higher. I not only do not mind hard, but relish it as long as it is 'real' and consistent with real world expectations (i.e. escort asdic operators potentially missing a contact because they, too, get fatigued, etc)

I wanted to try GW, and I wanted to right away. However . . . .

The subsim site's bandwidth was exceeded, and wouldn't permit downloads. The Euro site was taking two days per file download, of which there was 5. Everywhere else I looked either linked back to subsim or Grey Wolves, with the resultant 'bandwidth exceeded' problem. I finally found a site that had the 1.1 version, and background-downloaded it at work, burning the files to CD after punching out.

Raced home, copied the files, unpacked and installed, JSGME-ed the mod.

Tucked a bib in for the drooling, and off I went.

First couple of missions were just goof-off and experiment ones. The first time I got depth-charged I needed to change my britches. They're loud!

After a couple of days I decided I was comfortable enough with the mod to start a new career. Started off, ran the entire patrol, got a reasonable kill/tonnage, even with the NYGM damage mod (which is both realistically wonderful and enjoyable, and a *&*% frustration at times :up: :up: ) and ended up by backing into my slip and coming to dead stop.

Only to discover the no renown, no anything problem.

I suppose it wasn't so much that it happened the first patrol, as it was my concern that it might happen on all, or random, subsequent ones. Especially since I play more for realism than points; it feels as if all my hard work, sweat and blood was a joke.

Again, my apologies to one and all at Grey Wolves.

__________________________________________________ ____________________

I can't think of a single patrol where I haven't had at least one kill or finished patrolling my area. I've always done at least one or the other. And with one exception I've always returned to base (that exception was being on patrol at the tip of S. Africa, and getting depth charged sooooo bad; 16% hull left, no watch tower, periscopes, etc., no battery charge and both diesels destroyed . . . hmmm . . . start paddling Bernard).

I do save frequently. Part of that is two-fold. One is that I have cats. Yeah, I know. What do cats have to do with SHIII? Well, attack a task force, be running silent at 18 meters then have your cat jump onto the keyboard and hit the 'E' button in passing. Second is that I have Nortons. Which, no matter what I do to turn the damn thing off when I play, consistently will minimize SHIII to pop up stupid message windows. :damn:

After a bit of experimentation, and from past experience, I've concluded the following:

1) Saving while underwater (especially if under contact by escorts) and reverting to and loading that save later is tantamount to a free trip to Davy Jone's locker.

2) Saving on the surface seems to be fine, although I've yet to revert to a save where I was having an escort making a run on me, or aircraft targetting me so I don't know what that might do.

3) With regards to the SHIII bug fiasco where you don't get awarded renown, awards, etc at the end of a mission, save about 100 klicks away from port. Don't ask me why, but if the bug bites you just exit out, select saved career, then select the save 100 klicks out and reload. It's worked for me both times now, so hopefully it'll keep working when I need it to, and it'll work for everyone else too.


Thanks again for everyone's comments!

Albrecht von Hesse

[The Munster]

Why is it that everything is running smoothly, you're on your way to your Grid and all of a sudden your Cat jumps on your lap bawling, 'feed me' and as soon as you leave the screen to undertake the feeding the Cat Mission, all H@LL breaks loose in the Game i.e. 'we've been spotted, sir' etc.
It's like watching Football and as soon as you go to the Kitchen to put the Kettle on, somebody scores a Goal :damn: !

PS Yes, I know there is a 'Pause' button but that thought goes out of the window when you have a demanding Cat trying to eat you out of House and Home !

[mookiemookie]

Why is it that everything is running smoothly, you're on your way to your Grid and all of a sudden your Cat jumps on your lap bawling, 'feed me' and as soon as you leave the screen to undertake the feeding the Cat Mission, all H@LL breaks loose in the Game i.e. 'we've been spotted, sir' etc.
It's like watching Football and as soon as you go to the Kitchen to put the Kettle on, somebody scores a Goal :damn: !

PS Yes, I know there is a 'Pause' button but that thought goes out of the window when you have a demanding Cat trying to eat you out of House and Home !

Oh believe me, I know all about that. I was making my attack approach on a convoy the other night when she jumped right in front of the monitor, causing me to scream out loud at her, "DAMMIT, ARE YOU ON MY SIDE OR CHURCHILLS?"

Between that and all the German voices coming from my apartment, my neighbors probably think I'm crazy. ;)

[Trygvasson]

The brave men of the Sea, trying to cope with cats. Anyway, gentlemen, this is just a note to say that I deeply(sic) share your enthusiasm with the Grey Wolves. I've done a bit of sailing myself, including Cape Horn and the Antarctic, and standing on that bridge in full heavy gear, facing the relentless heavy weather really takes me back. Verdammter Atlantik.

September 1st, 1939: I get out of Wilhelmshafen in the middle of the night, with orders to patrol a square piece of ocean to the west of Britain. Obviously, war is coming soon. Since nobody told me not to, I decide to use the Channel to get to where I'm going. When I'm off the coast of Holland, hostilities against Poland begin, and I figure a good place to start the war would be in a harbour! Timing my approach to arrive after sunset, I cruise submerged towards Dover. At a standoff distance of about 2km I lie quite still with half the conning tower above water, until the time of the British ultimatum has run out, and Britain declares war. Rigging for silent running, I sneak my way into the harbour, full stop. The waves are mere ripples caressing the underside of my scope, like a mermaid trying to seduce me to go up, up. I spot several cargos and destroyers in the main harbour. A look at the western harbour, and a troop ship and a light cruiser sets my heart aflutter. Scope down. Easy, easy, navigating underwater. The lights of the harbour entrance gives me and underwater flash of the pier, 5 meters to starboard as I enter the western harbour. My hands are visibly shaking as I maneuver the sub in position. Scope up, up some more - and a destroyer FILLS my sights with its broadside, at an angle on bow some 75 degrees starboard. DOWN SCOPE. Shtshtshtttttt! I have to take out that destroyer before I can get a decent shot on the cruiser or the troop ship, she's moored right where I want to be. I back up until I can see the pier wall 2 meters from my rudder, in the intermittent flashes of the lighthouse. I don't dare to scope up long enough to identify, but I know my bearing is smack in the middle of the destroyer, and the distance SHOULD be 350 m. Setting my eel to run at 1,5 meters, fast. I wince at the sound of the torpedo door opening, and LOS! After fifteen interminable seconds, I hear a loud bang. A loud bang, not a boom. Was I too close to arm? Was the angle too sharp? I bury my face in my hands for a split second, and my thoughts start racing as the inevitable PING starts bouncing off my hull. My u-boot is facing into the harbour, with no room to maneuver and nothing but mud under the keel. Any sane man would try to get the hell out of Dover. I head for the cul-de-sac of the harbour, slithering right along the pier wall. The search lights of the destroyer flash by across the surface. The pings of the destroyer go fainter, as he looks for me at the harbour entrance. I decide to worry about him later. Three more minutes at silent running, and I'm in a position to up scope and check my dead reckoning of where the cruiser is at. There she is, bearing 182, search lights sweeping, but making no steam yet. No time to waste, I open tube V and fire off my eel at 2 meters depth. BOOM. Finally, a good hit, and DAMN, what a rush! Multiple pings now, a quick look and I see three pairs of destroyer searchlights by the harbour entrance, about 1km from my position. Blocking my only escape route. Getting out seems impossible. I decide to stay put for a while, and since I'm still undiscovered, I decide to reload my rear tube, to see if I can finish off that cruiser. Ten minutes go by in realtime, and my pulse refuses to drop. A few minutes before my rear tube has reloaded, I decide to up scope before sending off another eel. This is madness! I'm pushing my luck too much, they're bound to catch up with me eventually. As my scope breaks water, I hear a loud BOOM, and the scope fills with an orange fireball. Scared witless, I down scope and check for damage. Was I hit? Did the cruiser just fire a shell at the pier wall right next to me? Gott in Himmel, what happened?!?

"She's going down, Sir!"

And I realize the cruiser just blew up. A 10,000 ton cruiser, one torpedo, two hours and thirty-two minutes after the opening of hostilities. And I didn't have to fire that second torpedo, meaning that as far as the destroyers know, I could be way out of the harbour by now. I edge my way closer to the harbour entrance. The destroyers have widened their search pattern, it seems. It's 02:42, I have 90% oxygen reserves, 90% battery power, and 95% compressed air. All my tubes are loaded, and I'm still inside Dover harbour.

But with only 3 hours of night left, a window of escape, and a cruiser already in the bag, I decide to get out while I can still do so safely. Once again, I take advantage of the guidance of the lighthouses and sneak my way out along the harbour wall. I'm betting they'd be hard put to detect me by ASDIC when I'm in the 'corner' of the pier wall and the sea bottom. Right or wrong, I make good my escape, and after an hour on silent running, I scope up and see the destroyers 2 clicks behind me, still running in circles. A sweep of the horizon reveals a couple of patrol craft in the vincinity, but dodging them is child's play after what I just went through. Two hours before sunset, I surface 3km west of the Pas de Calais, and get no visual contacts. Flank speed to the west.

The hardest thing to do was to quit while I was ahead.

[stabiz]

Tryggvason ... now thats a proper sailors name.

[SubConscious]

I do save frequently. Part of that is two-fold. One is that I have cats. Yeah, I know. What do cats have to do with SHIII? Well, attack a task force, be running silent at 18 meters then have your cat jump onto the keyboard and hit the 'E' button in passing. Second is that I have Nortons. Which, no matter what I do to turn the damn thing off when I play, consistently will minimize SHIII to pop up stupid message windows. :damn:

A friend of mine was having the same problem with Norton. Oh his PC, the fix was as easy as left-clicking the Norton alert button next to the taskbar tray and selecting the "no alerts" option. I hope this works for you.

I have a cat, but I find that my two year old is MUCH more dangerous - I don't play while she's awake, but I have found that I can't even leave the game paused, as she loves to press all the buttons she can reach and the little stinker can climb like a monkey.

[bigboywooly]

Nice story Tryggvason :up: