loading external torps in storm in GWX

[shegeek72]

Don't know if it's been mentioned, but was hoping the loading of external torps in rough waters will not be allowed in GWX. (btw, I wait until calmer waters to move externals.)
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[kylania]

Hmm. I swear I tried this once and it didn't work, so I've always just waited till calmer seas (sometimes even at the beginning of my patrol when it's calmer incase I don't get a chance later). I'm using GW now.

[shegeek72]

Hmm. I swear I tried this once and it didn't work, so I've always just waited till calmer seas (sometimes even at the beginning of my patrol when it's calmer incase I don't get a chance later). I'm using GW now.
I think you're right ... I tried moving one in 15 mps winds and it didn't budge, no "cannot move torpedo in rough waters," just didn't move. GW rocks!
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[Shahed]

Wonder what the wind speed limit is, would be good to know.

[bigboywooly]

Wonder what the wind speed limit is, would be good to know.

Cant say for sure but it may be linked to the wind speed of manning the guns
?
:hmm:

[panthercules]

Wonder what the wind speed limit is, would be good to know.

It would be nice if this were enforced in game, but I just do it "manually" (i.e., voluntarily) by never trying to move externals unless wind speed is less than 5m/s - when I did some research it looked like the wave heights generated by winds higher than 5m/s would be high enough to wash over the decks and make the idea of having the hatches open to bring the externals inside seem like a real bad idea. I checked on external view and this seemed to be about right in game - at anything over 5m/s the decks did seem to be awash often enough to interfere with torp-loading.

I also slow down to about 2-3 knots during the moving process, to decrease the wave action over the decks and keep the rocking/pitching of the boat to a reasonable minimum. Also, although fortunately this hasn't happened to me yet, I have decided that if attacked during the first half of the loading process I will have to stay on the surface and fight for about 4 or 5 minutes - presumably long enough in theory to ditch the torpedo and loading gear overboard and close up the hatches, etc and get the loading crew into the boat.

So, even if the game lets you do this in gale force winds/storms, it doesn't mean you have to do it :)

[bigboywooly]

Wonder what the wind speed limit is, would be good to know.


So, even if the game lets you do this in gale force winds/storms, it doesn't mean you have to do it :)

The temptation is always there though if you are in a convoy attack :oops:

Never really put it to the test as to the max w\speed allowed to reload

[von Zelda]

For your information, in one of my most recently read u-boat books it was stated that externals had to be loaded during daylight hours only.

I also have assumed that the boat would need to be pretty much stopped and the sea state (the wind speed per the SH3 game) needs to be fairly low to allow for the open hatches and the transfer. I do this voluntarily since it's not modded into the game.

I've also read that late in the war (approximately 1943 on) most u-boats sailing into the North Atlantic were not allowed to carry externals. This being due to the impossibility to transfer externals due to the increase in Coastal Command attacks and the inherent danger of depth charges and bombs setting off the externals while they were stored under the deck. However, with BdU consent, the larger long range boats were allowed to carry the externals if they were traveling to the South Atlantic, Indian Ocean and Far East. Therefore, having Type VII's with externals late in the war would not be truely realistic.

One more important point to ponder, the external torpedos were always the air driven G7a variety, never the electric G7e variety. I don't recall the exact reason for this at the moment but probably had something to do with the electric batteries having to be kept within the presure hull.

[panthercules]

For your information, in one of my most recently read u-boat books it was stated that externals had to be loaded during daylight hours only. .

Any cite? I hadn't heard that, but it would make some sense that you would need pretty decent light to manage that task, so at least you would need pretty clear, moonlit conditions to do it at night.


I've also read that late in the war (approximately 1943 on) most u-boats sailing into the North Atlantic were not allowed to carry externals. This being due to the impossibility to transfer externals due to the increase in Coastal Command attacks and the inherent danger of depth charges and bombs setting off the externals while they were stored under the deck. However, with BdU consent, the larger long range boats were allowed to carry the externals if they were traveling to the South Atlantic, Indian Ocean and Far East. Therefore, having Type VII's with externals late in the war would not be truely realistic..

Good point, especially if you can't really do this task at night as indicated above - the way this latest patrol (June '43) has been going, I've had to be traveling submerged all day 'cause the air attacks are so common - I certainly wouldn't be able to comfortably count on being undisturbed long enough during daylight to get the externals loaded in.

One more important point to ponder, the external torpedos were always the air driven G7a variety, never the electric G7e variety. I don't recall the exact reason for this at the moment but probably had something to do with the electric batteries having to be kept within the presure hull.

I had read this before as well, so I always put only the steamers in my external slots - I think it had something to do with needing to do fairly frequent maintenance on the electrics (probably battery-related) during the voyage, which you couldn't do if they were in the external storage slots. I finally got tired of having to move them around every time I left port (and especially having them wrong when leaving a milkcow where you can't move them around) so I went in and tweaked the .cfg file to correct the default loadout slots.

[Sailor Steve]

Electric torpedoes had to be taken out and inspected every few days , and maintained, or they would malfunction. This is why they can't be carried in the external bays.

I too would like to know the name of this book and a direct quote.

[von Zelda]

Electric torpedoes had to be taken out and inspected every few days , and maintained, or they would malfunction. This is why they can't be carried in the external bays.

I too would like to know the name of this book and a direct quote.
The book is Type VII U-boats by Robert C. Stern (ISBN: 1557508283) Naval Institute Press - 1991

Page 91 under the section on loading and storage:
"The other two were stored externally in storage tubes sited between the pressure hull and the deck casing. One was right aft on the centerline. The other was forward and towards the starboard. These two torpedoes could be brought inside the boat during a patrol after at least two of the internal load had been expended. Besides the collapsible loading trough, all boats now carried a dismountable tripod winch which was erected over the tower, facing forward or aft as appropriate. The storage tubes were angled with the tower end raised, so that a torpedo could be winched out of the tube, manhandled into the trough and then loaded just as at dockside. Needless to say, this could only be done during daylight, in the calmest of weather and in an area where the risk of enemy interference was considered negligible, since a submarine loading torpedoes had multiple hatches open and a large number of crewmen on deck. These requirements restricted the use of these external storage tubes to a great extent, especially as the war progressed. Additionally, there were restrictions on the type of torpedo that could be stored in the external tubes. Only G7as could be stored externally because they didn't require the same regular maintenance as G7es."

[panthercules]

Thanks - interesting read - sounds like another book I need to add to my library :)

After reading this thread, I decided to try doing this in daylight for the first time - it was pretty nerve-wracking but I was completely out of torps inside and didn't fancy making the long trek home with nothing in the tubes at all. Managed to get my only remaining forward external brought inside - now if my luck will just hold for another hour or so I'll be able to get my aft external in and at least have some punch at both ends for the ride home.

Pretty disappointing patrol this time around as far as results go - 1 T3 tanker sunk, 3 T2 tankers, 1 C3 and 1 Frigate damaged. Although the Frigate settled heavily and went dead in the water, I got no credit for it, and none of the damaged merchants fell out of the convoy so I was never able to pick off any stragglers :(

Still, considering I was almost bombed into oblivion on the way out before I could even fire a torp, the fact that my guys were able to patch up the boat and do even this much damage to the enemy just one month after the debacle of May 1943 has got to be counted as something of a moral victory - I just hope BdU sees it that way :yep:

[Stiebler]

I agree completely with Panthercules' remarks, that you can set your own restraints voluntarily on reloading external torpedoes. I agree too with his parameters, although I've preferred to use 7 m/s winds as the limit at dead slow ahead for external reloading.

Panthercules also wrote:
Also, although fortunately this hasn't happened to me yet, I have decided that if attacked during the first half of the loading process I will have to stay on the surface and fight for about 4 or 5 minutes - presumably long enough in theory to ditch the torpedo and loading gear overboard and close up the hatches, etc and get the loading crew into the boat.
This problem first arose with the late, great 'Aces of the Deep'. At the time, I spent ages trying to find out what the emergency procedure was if a U-boat was suddenly attacked while in the middle of reloading external torpedoes. I asked naval authors and ex-U-boatmen. No one knew!

Apparently no occasion of such an attack ever occurred in real life. Which shows how careful the SH3 captain has to be when reloading external torpedoes.

If anyone does know the answer to this question, I'd be very glad to hear it.

Stiebler.

[von Zelda]

Another item which is not truely realistic is the receiving of a complete load of torpedos from a milk cow at sea.

A u-boat generally took on 2 or 3, or maybe 4 torpedoes from another boat. There were not enough on a supply ship for eveyone to receive a full load. Some u-boats even received a few torpedoes from a boat that was aborting to France with some left-overs.

The torpedoes were floated over with the help of a hugh number life jackets. The receiving boat had to trim its bow or stern so that it could come up under the floating torpedo and raise it out of the water. Then it had to be manhandled down the trough into the forward of aft torpeo room. Sounds like it was very time-consumming and dangerous, and the conditions would have to be just right for this type of transfer.

I have a large number of u-boat books and have read descriptions regarding the transfer of torpedoes in several of them. I do not have a specific reference at this moment.

[bigboywooly]

Another item which is not truely realistic is the receiving of a complete load of torpedos from a milk cow at sea.

A u-boat generally took on 2 or 3, or maybe 4 torpedoes from another boat. There were not enough on a supply ship for eveyone to receive a full load. Some u-boats even received a few torpedoes from a boat that was aborting to France with some left-overs.

The torpedoes were floated over with the help of a hugh number life jackets. The receiving boat had to trim its bow or stern so that it could come up under the floating torpedo and raise it out of the water. Then it had to be manhandled down the trough into the forward of aft torpeo room. Sounds like it was very time-consumming and dangerous, and the conditions would have to be just right for this type of transfer.

I have a large number of u-boat books and have read descriptions regarding the transfer of torpedoes in several of them. I do not have a specific reference at this moment.

Yes the milk cows in game are not truly realistic but the only way to get them to work ingame is to designate them as a naval base
When you dock at a naval base you are automatically rearmed and fuelled
Its the only way within the limitations of the game engine
Its another not finished item from the Devs - I beleive they intended to implement it as a quick look at the English.cfg in roster shows

;Submarine
Type200=Submarine
Type201=Replenishment Submarine
Type202=Missile Submarine
Type203=Environmental

Unless they were hoping someone would mod it in which wouldnt surprise me

[d@rk51d3]

Hmm. I swear I tried this once and it didn't work, so I've always just waited till calmer seas (sometimes even at the beginning of my patrol when it's calmer incase I don't get a chance later). I'm using GW now.
I think you're right ... I tried moving one in 15 mps winds and it didn't budge, no "cannot move torpedo in rough waters," just didn't move. GW rocks!
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Strange, I've performed a full reload from my external stores of 7 torps during a storm, no worries.

One thing that would be neat, is the ability to lose crew overboard during a storm.

[Shahed]

I think I've done that too. I have'nt changed the storm settings, I'll keep an eye out for it next time.

[Sailor Steve]

One thing that would be neat, is the ability to lose crew overboard during a storm.
And to lose torpedoes when trying to transfer them in a storm, and to have crewmembers crushed by out-of-control torpedoes...

I prefer to not reload in any but calm weather. And in daylight, though I'm confused as to why they wouldn't be able to rig lighting for the procedure.

[von Zelda]

One thing that would be neat, is the ability to lose crew overboard during a storm. And to lose torpedoes when trying to transfer them in a storm, and to have crewmembers crushed by out-of-control torpedoes...

I prefer to not reload in any but calm weather. And in daylight, though I'm confused as to why they wouldn't be able to rig lighting for the procedure.
Any light source on a boat at night would be seen a long distance away. Don't think they'd want to give away their position.

[Sailor Steve]

Any light source on a boat at night would be seen a long distance away. Don't think they'd want to give away their position.
I thought of that too, but in some ways daylight seems even worse. Then again, I've looked at that book and trust it as a source. It's where my complaint about the game's U-boat top speeds comes from.

[panthercules]

Then again, I've looked at that book and trust it as a source. It's where my complaint about the game's U-boat top speeds comes from.

What's wrong with the game's top speeds? (and, if they're wrong, can they be fixed by changing the relevant .cfg file somewhere? if so, where?)

[edit] I went in to see if I could answer my own question about where the top speeds are set in the game, and I saw where the individual sub type .cfg files do list what seem to be the intended top speeds, which appeared to be correct at least for the TypeVIIC (only one I really checked) based on the figures at u-boat.net, but then I noticed in game that I was actually getting 18-19 knots at full ahead even though the .cfg file said 17. Of course, u-boat.net said 17.7, so rounding up would be 18 I suppose, and I do have the upgraded engines, which I suppose could eke out another 1 knot, so maybe this is still OK. So I'm still curious - what's wrong with the game's top speeds?