Doubt about TA

[Nexus7]

I don't remember having read about this anywhere... Why can I not hear across ownship relative bearing when the TA is bend down? (when i go slow). Is this just a simplification like I tend to believe ?

That capability would be often helpfull... IMHO.

[goldorak]

If you start a turn, then yes you will definitely see ownship appear on the towed array.
To see ownship on the TA, the TA must not be in the longitudinal axis of the ship/sub.
If the TA is lower than ownship but in the longitudinal axis of ownship then you won't see ownship.
The only moment you need to be aware that the TA is bending down is during tma, if you go too slow the bearing lines will give a very bad tma, so you must keep a minimum speed to have the TA at the same level than OS to have good bearing lines.

[Doc Savage]

There also seems to be some real wierd behaviour on the TA after turns. For one thing, if you make a turn AND wait for it to straighten, the first bearing line after straightening always seems to be a bit off.
I used to think it was make a turn, wait for the TA to straighten - the next bearing line is a clean one.
In reality it seems to be more like, make a turn, wait for the TA to straighten, get a bearing line and the one after that is the clean bearing line.
Another quirk is that if the TA washes out during the turn (say you increase speed), when you slow down again, it immediately creates a bearing line when it stops being washed out. But that line seems to be the line that would be generated if you were continuing on your original course.

[Kapitan]

Normaly that big thick line on the NB and shows as akula then i know i got me :D

[LoBlo]

I don't remember having read about this anywhere... Why can I not hear across ownship relative bearing when the TA is bend down? (when i go slow). Is this just a simplification like I tend to believe ?

That capability would be often helpfull... IMHO.

I think the theory is that the prop noise from your own propellar will be the closest and loudest noise source on that bearing so will "drown out" anything else from that bearing. No doubt RL is a little bit more complex but its premise is what modeled IMHO.

[Nexus7]

If you start a turn, then yes you will definitely see ownship appear on the towed array.
To see ownship on the TA, the TA must not be in the longitudinal axis of the ship/sub.
If the TA is lower than ownship but in the longitudinal axis of ownship then you won't see ownship.
The only moment you need to be aware that the TA is bending down is during tma, if you go too slow the bearing lines will give a very bad tma, so you must keep a minimum speed to have the TA at the same level than OS to have good bearing lines.

That is not what i want. I don't want to see ownship. I want to see "across" ownship, when the TA is bend down. In other words there shouldn't be any black area on BB when the TA is selected.
When I turn i see ownship noise also in BB, but it is not a very thick line, at least with the Seawolf, so it shouldn't cover other contacts "in front" of me...

[Dr.Sid]

This blanking on towed array may be also part of game balancing. Not all in the game tries to be realistic.
Teoretically, there is no need for blanking anything on towed array. Ownship is pretty far from the sensor. Does real subs have it blanked ? Who knows ? Any bubbleheads wanna put some (maybe classified) info here ? :|\\

[Henson]

TA through turns is modeled pretty well in BB.

Of course you will see ownship louder than anything else. What you see on BB (in american platforms) is all the noise around you, with areas of greater noise showing up brighter. Just as one merchant can mask another's noise, ownship will mask the noise of anything on the same bearing as it is. This is one reason why tracking on forward endfire is so futile, as well as a damn good reason the sphere doesn't listen 360 degrees.

[Nexus7]

That's always good to hear :)

[Dr.Sid]

TA through turns is modeled pretty well in BB.

Of course you will see ownship louder than anything else. What you see on BB (in american platforms) is all the noise around you, with areas of greater noise showing up brighter. Just as one merchant can mask another's noise, ownship will mask the noise of anything on the same bearing as it is. This is one reason why tracking on forward endfire is so futile, as well as a damn good reason the sphere doesn't listen 360 degrees.

Well .. what about NB ? You would need pretty strong signal to mask other frequencies too. It is true that DW clasification filtering does not work very well with 2 (or more) contacts at the same bearing. It will usualy interpret the lines as something totally unknown. But still you can mark, and with some practice, even classify manualy.

[Henson]

TA through turns is modeled pretty well in BB.

Of course you will see ownship louder than anything else. What you see on BB (in american platforms) is all the noise around you, with areas of greater noise showing up brighter. Just as one merchant can mask another's noise, ownship will mask the noise of anything on the same bearing as it is. This is one reason why tracking on forward endfire is so futile, as well as a damn good reason the sphere doesn't listen 360 degrees.
Well .. what about NB ? You would need pretty strong signal to mask other frequencies too. It is true that DW clasification filtering does not work very well with 2 (or more) contacts at the same bearing. It will usualy interpret the lines as something totally unknown. But still you can mark, and with some practice, even classify manualy.

This is also correct. I cannot envision a circumstance where you would gain a NB tonal while the TA was turning though, so it seems a bit moot in this circumstance (or maybe I am misinterpreting).

[Dr.Sid]

I mean on narrow band you can see easily thru louder contacts. In DW you just can't hide sub under tanker. Specific lines of the sub will just be there. Is it realistic ? I guess so - well the sub could get really close and it could get masked by buffles, but that would be pretty dangerous anyway.

[Henson]

I mean on narrow band you can see easily thru louder contacts. In DW you just can't hide sub under tanker. Specific lines of the sub will just be there. Is it realistic ? I guess so - well the sub could get really close and it could get masked by buffles, but that would be pretty dangerous anyway.

It is easy to mask broadband noise with louder noise, but it is very hard to find a contact that puts out the exact same tonals as you do. :know:

[Kapitan]

Slightly off track here but if you want to know whats on the two sides of the layer your towed array comes in very handy.

I will sit 25 meters or a bit more above the layer and slow to just 3 knots my towed array will eventualy slip below so i can hear the best of both worlds.

[SeaQueen]

Slightly off track here but if you want to know whats on the two sides of the layer your towed array comes in very handy.

I will sit 25 meters or a bit more above the layer and slow to just 3 knots my towed array will eventualy slip below so i can hear the best of both worlds.

I guess the hard part is figuring out how much do you want to search above the layer with your towed array and how much do you want to search below...

[Kapitan]

Yes but if i know the guy is not on the top layer then i wont let myself become easy pray by going under neath the layer il let the array do that part, after all its what its designed for.

[SeaQueen]

Yes but if i know the guy is not on the top layer then i wont let myself become easy pray by going under neath the layer il let the array do that part, after all its what its designed for.

And that's a good tactic. I just wish I knew of a good way to make the decision to seach above or below the layer. If the area you're searching is large enough, then no matter how long you search, there's a chance that you won't find your target. If that's the case, then it begs the question, at what point in your search do you make the decision to switch?

[Kapitan]

I make all my descisions after wieghing it all up, if i fear he might be there or i have a sence he is there i wont move.

I will search an area make satisfied that i am safe and nothing is there and proceade above the layer slowly.

I will then say tomyself with my printed out map, if i was this captain of that boat i would most like go either here here or here then il search them areas and most likely i will find them eventualy.

[SeaQueen]

I
I will then say tomyself with my printed out map,

How do you print the maps out? It would be nice to have something to draw on sometimes. :-)

[Kapitan]

www.google.com (http://www.google.com) normal place.

[Bellman]

Perhaps we should ''draw on'' our reserves of clairvoyance ? ;)

[goldorak]

www.google.com (http://www.google.com) normal place.

What a lousy answer, or should i say non answer. :down::roll:

[Kapitan]

what more do you want thats where i get most of my maps from would you like me to click my fingers and magic one for you?

[SeaQueen]

www.google.com (http://www.google.com) normal place.

Oh! I guess in that case, the best thing to do is just use Google Earth or Encarta. The thing is, because the geographic database is fairly low resolution, there's some pretty glaring inaccuracies in the maps if you compare them to a real life chart. They're close, but definitely not perfect.

[Nexus7]

what's perfect already :shifty: