View Full Version : NYGM or Grey Wolves? Sell me people.
Ok so I moved a few months ago. In the process I stopped playing SH3. In fact I stopped visiting SubSim (may god have mercy on my atheist soul) and at the time I was last here I was hearing reports of a new exiting mod called NYGM! Also Grey Wolves wasn't on my radar. So heres the thing gentleman and the few ladies who are brave enough to be on a forum full of male gamers: I want to play SH3 with one of the two above mentioned super-mods. However I'm somewhat conflicted. I'm not sure what I want. Do I want the immersion effect of Grey Wolves or the realism thing of NYGM? Now I'm sure alot of you will say that I should just try them myself. Well I don't really have the time to adequately sample each one. I feel like jumping in and playing some superior SH3. So why don't you guys tell me which you prefer and why and pros and cons and such and all the gay banter in between.
Also if in my months of absentia there has been a thread exactly like this one then direct me please.
Alright gents. Sell me. I'm all ears.
When I resurfaced into the Subsim world and found my SH3 game on the shelf, I started looking for mods.
The first one I downloaded was NYGM, since it seemed to have everything I wanted. I never made it past my first patrol in 1939. Not only did escorts have the Jedi sense of SH2, they also refused to give up the chase even when they had spent every depth charge in the arsenal.
In the end I gave up. Then I downloaded GW 1.1a, and I haven't looked back since. it's exactly the right combination of difficulty, realism and pure fun that I was looking for.
Of course I did not write this to bash the excellent work done with NYGM. I am just describing my personal experience.
rgds/EoE
VonHelsching
07-13-06, 05:55 AM
Caveat emptor - Beware the trader
You might not have the time to evaluate both, but you can certainly download them both and run them from different SH3 installations. There are at least 2-3 similar posts in the last 2 weeks that describe how it is done (I'd do that, but, I'm currently at work). Also there are several similar posts (GW or NYGM) in the last weeks. As you can understand they were inconclusive.
You can't really expect to get positive feedback with a thread named "sell me". Hell, we're doing this in our free time; and free time is valued very high for some if not all of us. So, you undestand that this simple question can easily be disintegrated into a "war of the words". You'll not be able to tell what's for you, unless you try it yourself.
All you'll get is at least semi-biased opinions: Here's one: - click on my sig -
SH3 is a great game, and I'm always happy seeing new / returning players after ~1,5 year of the initial release.
Sir Big Jugs
07-13-06, 05:58 AM
You've just started a war in this thread between the GW and NYGM people. . .:hmm:
Oh I understand how you guys don't want to explain the history of SH3 every few days to a different person or want to debate the finer points of every mod endlessly. So I guess I'll retract my "sell me" statement and just ask generally: Which do you prefer and why (if you have the time). No war of the words needed. No endless battles over which is better. Just those who feel they can spare the bandwidth to type up why they prefer one or the other would be appreciated. I'm hoping that through the explanations of "why" I'll be able to see if one complements me better.
Thanks chaps.:up:
Because of WaW, I´ve been forced to use NYGM and the results are what I expected (not in a bad way!).
NYGM: Purely aimed to 100% realism and gameplay. There are no new graphics or such.
TGW: Also changes issues on realism and gameplay, it doesnt aim to 10000% realism but to a balance between realism and fun. New graphics and sounds.
These are my experiences. Cant say much more about NYGM yet, as it´s only my 3rd patrol using it.
EDIT: Oh and to add to my post. As far as I know, I´m not part of the TGW team anymore (just too lazy to make a new sig), so I tried to look both mods from a neutral POV.
Thanks Dowly. Oh and I was reading the NYGM Manual and it mentions Rubini's Harbour Traffic mod. Is this or something similar in GW? I ask only because if GW is about cosmetics then I hope better harbour traffic is included.
I prefer Grey Wolves, because it is just a touch harder than the vanilla, but way, way prettier. It also has alot of cool features I think the player should find out himself.
Here is a small spoiler:
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7213/sh320060712153124128ta.jpg
And a little eye candy:
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/3554/sh320060712181249342sp.jpg
And yes, there is alot going on in the harbours in GW.
VonHelsching
07-13-06, 06:29 AM
Oh I understand how you guys don't want to explain the history of SH3 every few days to a different person or want to debate the finer points of every mod endlessly. So I guess I'll retract my "sell me" statement and just ask generally: Which do you prefer and why (if you have the time). No war of the words needed. No endless battles over which is better. Just those who feel they can spare the bandwidth to type up why they prefer one or the other would be appreciated. I'm hoping that through the explanations of "why" I'll be able to see if one complements me better.
Thanks chaps.:up:
That's better, mate.;)
Although I have both modpacks installed, I'll speak only for GW.
GW never ceases to amaze me. I havn't even grasped 50% of what was modded in this game. Everything has been changed. The immersion factor does not leave you after the firs mission, but stays with you. Although I'm not your average "realism" guy, I enjoy the levels of ahem historical accuracy in the campaign, the traffic, the radio and contact reports. Lots of new ships and traffic is added vs the stock game. There's hundreds / thousands minute details that I discover each time I load the game.
There's one thing that always drive me nuts when I play GW: Take your u-boat in a deep spot (more than 60m) put your speakers on maximum, warn your neighbours and then press crash dive "C".
Combined with the external applications SH3Cdr and SH3Gen (intelligence reports) it's the best naval simulation ever.
HunterICX
07-13-06, 06:39 AM
Why not install both!
its quite easy you know,
1: Create an Fresh Installation of SH3
2: Update the Fresh SH3 to 1.4b
3: In the Map Ubisoft Copy the map SH3 and Paste it next to it (it will take some time to complete +- 10 min)
4: Rename the Folders ex: SH3 + GW and SH3 + NYGM
5: Install both Mods on the correct named SH3 folder
6: And you have 2 SH3 Games Modded!
7: Only be aware that the Save files will be in the same folder (My documents > SH3 so remember wich save you use with that mod!
It takes maybe a little more Disk space but if you want to play both! its worth it :up:
gouldjg
07-13-06, 07:01 AM
Both mods Rock so I say download both. They are very much worth it.
Your best bet is to read the readme for both mods and decide whatever rocks your boat the most.
There are a 1001 explanations for each mod and 1001 explanations against each mod. Some people just add a tiny mod to rock their boat and some will download the big ones and extract the best from both to create their own custom package.
Ideally I want parts from both but things are moving so fast in both mod camps as new things have been discovered etc that even I have to wait till things go quiet again.
No matter what people say about either mod, at the end of the day they are free and improve the game play for those whom have just got bored with the vanilla version.
This is not to say that players need to choose one or the other as many players do well by just changing one small part of the game that they have a preference to want to see changed.
There are loads of small mods out there that will improve the game for players that has not yet been put into the big mods and are optional.
Rather than waffle till the cows come home may I suggest that you do a post explaining you play style and the things you would like to see and then people can help you from there.
Failing that, Just see what people say about each, read their readme's, check if smaller single mods do what you want and decide from there.
But going back to my initial comments, Both Mods Rock
Why not try red text on green background as well? :lol:
Just kidding. And I'm with the rest here: Try both mods and use the one that suits your style of play.
rgds/EoE
U-Bones
07-13-06, 07:36 AM
I consider both excellent, and an happily playing with elements from both (and more), which is not supported by either.
The realism distinction between the two is overhyped, GW is treated very unfairly (by some).
The size difference is significant - if you are bandwidth challenged, try NYGM first.
gouldjg
07-13-06, 07:55 AM
Why not try red text on green background as well? :lol:
Just kidding. And I'm with the rest here: Try both mods and use the one that suits your style of play.
rgds/EoE
Everytime I bloody make one mistake on this text it screw people up and I always forget that I am seeing everything fine in hazyblue. Me thinks it is time to sit back and get this right by reading the guides.
It always starts when I get creative and yes, sometimes red and green would suit my IQ level :doh: :doh: .
Sorry to all those whom cannot see the text.
Seminole
07-13-06, 07:57 AM
While both Mega-Mods feature many exciting and interesting innovations and enhancements neither fully gave me exactly what I wanted.
So borrowing transplants from both of these , using other mods and parts of mods that have been around from the early days, throwing in Longer U-Boat Repair Times, employing SH3 Commander and it's related addons, then finally fine tuning some files myself I have arrived at a modded game that I am thoroughly enjoying as never before.
:yep:
So I can't really argue one over the other....sorry.
Theta Sigma
07-13-06, 08:35 AM
I installed GW via JGSME, just so I could try other mods. Since it hasn't mentioned, am I to assume NYGM cannot be installed the same way? (Haven't tried it yet)
Ducimus
07-13-06, 09:55 AM
Both mods aim to achieve the same thing, they just go about it in different ways.
Yes GW has harbor traffic. Infact it might even have more harbor traffic then NYGM, i can't prove that, its just an off the cuff gut feeling. At the least they both sport the same level of harbor traffic.
In my opinion, the bottom line difference between the two is this:
If you expect a section of a uboats conning tower to have exactly 54 rivets and the hull to have two inch lap wield along the plate joints, then NYGM is probably your cup of tea.
If you really liked das boat and always wanted a little bit more of a cinematic feel to the game- and you dont have to have exactly 54 rivets just as long as you get your two inch lap wield, then TGW's is probably your cup of tea.
Cdre Gibs
07-13-06, 10:09 AM
Oh and to add to my post. As far as I know, I´m not part of the TGW team anymore (just too lazy to make a new sig), so I tried to look both mods from a neutral POV.
Dowly!
Do you EVER read your PM's. ATM you are AWOL from TGW. I sent you a PM regarding the TGW Home shift. Now get off ya backside and report in MR! ;) :lol:
Sailor Steve
07-13-06, 10:49 AM
Several others have already said my piece: that I have a convoluted combination of different mods that suits me. I really can't say one or the other is better; as was said before, both have their fanatical devotees, so both are best.
Doesn't help at all, but there it is. NYGM does away with renown, so has a more historical 'feel', which I like. GW has a more realistic 'feel' as far as immersion goes.
Or at least that's the way they make me 'feel'.:rotfl:
Mooncatt
07-13-06, 11:56 AM
ok which one leaves big holes in the side of ya target after an eel has hit it??
Mooncatt
07-13-06, 12:08 PM
ok which one leaves big holes in the side of ya target after an eel has hit it??
edit... just tried to download GW but says something bout the download thingy has reached its bandwidth limit, does this mean that lots of peeps are trying to download it and there isnt enough room for me???????
NeonSamurai
07-13-06, 12:18 PM
No it meens Subsim has reached its bandwidth limit for the month (i think). I would suggest going to the grey wolves main site and downloading from the mirror there. http://www.users.on.net/~jscones/TGW/
As I have stated before in other posts...it all comes down to personal preferences.
Asking someone to try and "sell" a person on one mod or the other really wont work.You will get so many different opinions and views that you will be even more confused.
I play the Grey Wolves mod but I also have it personalized to my play style.I have replaced some graphics features in it to ones that I prefer and have modified the .SCR campaign file to remove some of the harbor traffic to more framerate friendly settings in port as well as removing the minefields and subnets from the friendly ports that cause far more irritation when leaving and coming back than server any purpose otherwise IMO.
So it all comes down to what do you want out of your game?Do you want balls to the walls,full grognard,rivet counting realism or do you want something else?
With that info we can help you a bit more.
If you want "Fun" and "Pretty", then go GW.
If you want to experience close to as possible what a real U-Boat Commander had to face then go NYGM....:up:
Mooncatt
07-13-06, 12:59 PM
i want it little more realistic i.e when an eel hits i want it to leave a hole instead of just a black mark, and just generally better grafix for me.:D
Kpt. Lehmann
07-13-06, 01:19 PM
If you want "Fun" and "Pretty", then go GW.
If you want to experience close to as possible what a real U-Boat Commander had to face then go NYGM....:up:
My friend... there is far FAR more to GW than just being "fun" and "pretty.":arrgh!:
I just wished i could mention whats coming in the next release :smug:
Does GW keep the unrealistic single ship contact on the Navigation Map?
Sir Big Jugs
07-13-06, 01:35 PM
I just wished i could mention whats coming in the next release :smug:
PM it to me eh?;):roll::|\\
bigboywooly
07-13-06, 01:52 PM
I just wished i could mention whats coming in the next release :smug:
PM it to me eh?;):roll::|\\
And me :rotfl: :rotfl:
Ducimus
07-13-06, 01:56 PM
I just wished i could mention whats coming in the next release :smug:
Im gonna resist the urge to post a scathing reply to a snide remark and just quote pants for emphasis instead, cause thats pretty much my stance as well. :lol:
i want it little more realistic i.e when an eel hits i want it to leave a hole instead of just a black mark, and just generally better grafix for me.:D
TGW neither NYGM does that. It cannot be done atm. The picture of the merchant with hole on it´s side is a blockship that you can find on entrances to ports. E.g. Scapa flow has those. :up:
Sailor Steve
07-13-06, 02:30 PM
ok which one leaves big holes in the side of ya target after an eel has hit it??
Neither one. Those are wrecks created by Rubini (I think [I hope]) called BARR, for barricade ship, and strewn around different harbors for flavor.
Ain't they cool?
Well I'm going to try the GW mod and see how I go.. do all the subs have that snazzy camo jobs or is that something I need to addon my self, I particularly wanted it for a VIIC and IXD2.
Schpeedy
07-13-06, 03:51 PM
Which one simulates the engines and controls best? Any Amp meters? I think i read that one of them atleast says stuff and sound when blowing ballasts.
Which one can actually park at the bottom of the ocean (for repairs) without damaging the boat worse even if extremely lightly and slowly set it down?
Which one has the best Uboat vs Aircraft battles? Out of the box... I can't see a plane in front of me on its 5th pass. Everytime they are suddenly at point blank and following it with the gun can seem impossible even if zoomed all the way out.
Does either sim do a better job with the sound room? Can i ask him to report ALL contacts that he can detect? How about the famous question for him... "hear any battleships?"
Kpt. Lehmann
07-13-06, 09:07 PM
Does GW keep the unrealistic single ship contact on the Navigation Map?
You can be sure that whenever a single ship was detected outside of visual range...
... and the U-Boat captain decided to intercept and identify it... it was then plotted on a map... as a marked and unknown contact.
GW Uses all grey contacts... and yes when you get a contact report it is placed on the map.
Whether or not it is actually there when YOU get there is another matter.
Realism Magua... is in the eye of the beholder.
I think we need a new term to help describe things..the terms "Realistic" and "Realism" have to much open for interpretation to be good terms to use.
I think we should use the term "Historically Accurate" or "Historically Correct" instead of realistic or realism when describing mods that aim for such.Less is open to interpretation that way.
I think we need a new term to help describe things..the terms "Realistic" and "Realism" have to much open for interpretation to be good terms to use.
I think we should use the term "Historically Accurate" or "Historically Correct" instead of realistic or realism when describing mods that aim for such.Less is open to interpretation that way.
Except that both mods are trying to be historically correct.
Ducimus
07-13-06, 11:53 PM
Some aspects of SH3 will NEVER be historically correct or historically accurate due to limitations imposed upon by the game. So often you'll have to compromise to obtain the most realistic behavior you can get the game to emulate.
Personnaly im a little tired of realsim debates. Its all subjective and contrived. Seriously, the only person who plays SH3 who has any right to say anything about realism, is the crazy person who plays the game without any form of time compression, plays at 100% everything, and who runs his patrol on a machine he leaves running 24/7 for the entire length of the patrol, which.. spaning the neighborhood of 30 to 60 days, doesnt sink a single ship. Cause if your playing for realsim that would be it. DAYS, WEEKS, MONTHS of tedious boredom broken by moments of shear terror.
The reality is, nobody can play this game in a total realistic sense. If you want realsm, or a realistic SH3 patrol, i offer the following lines taken from Hans Gruebels Memior, "Steel boats, Iron hearts":
Those were lazy days as we slowly plodded southward. During the cool nights, we would sit on the deck and stare at the Southern Cross, telling every story from our civlilan lives we could remember. At first it all seemed idylic to be sailing under these strange constellations towards our unknown fate. But after just three weeks out of Lorient, the boring routine began to grate on my nerves. The unending cycles of watch, trying to read with condensation water dripping on my English Textbook, someone telling his old story for the 10th time, the same phonograph record playing for the 100th time. For young guys like us, this was a kind of slow pshycologcal torture.
If SH3 played like that, or rather, if you played SH3 like that, i'll wager most people wouldnt play anymore, because it would be BORING. Point being, EVERYBODY here, even the most contencious rivet counter, makes compromises between realism and gameplay, between historicaly accurate, and "realistc" weither they acknowledge it or not.
Does GW keep the unrealistic single ship contact on the Navigation Map?
You can be sure that whenever a single ship was detected outside of visual range...
... and the U-Boat captain decided to intercept and identify it... it was then plotted on a map... as a marked and unknown contact.
GW Uses all grey contacts... and yes when you get a contact report it is placed on the map.
Whether or not it is actually there when YOU get there is another matter.
Realism Magua... is in the eye of the beholder.
Well, I've read countless U-Boat Commander Autobiographies, Biographies, Logs, Interregation Reports, and General Histories. About ten years of reading and research. In those readings I have never read of a "single ship detected outside of visual range." Part of what I do for a living involves Historical Research.
However there are an infinite number of reports describing U-Boats just happening across single ships, with no advance warning.
I think placing single contacts on the navigation map detracts from realism. The only purpose being to make it easier to find ships.
Realism..........IS in Historical Research...
Some aspects of SH3 will NEVER be historically correct or historically accurate due to limitations imposed upon by the game. So often you'll have to compromise to obtain the most realistic behavior you can get the game to emulate.
Personnaly im a little tired of realsim debates. Its all subjective and contrived. Seriously, the only person who plays SH3 who has any right to say anything about realism, is the crazy person who plays the game without any form of time compression, plays at 100% everything, and who runs his patrol on a machine he leaves running 24/7 for the entire length of the patrol, which.. spaning the neighborhood of 30 to 60 days, doesnt sink a single ship. Cause if your playing for realsim that would be it. DAYS, WEEKS, MONTHS of tedious boredom broken by moments of shear terror.
The reality is, nobody can play this game in a total realistic sense. If you want realsm, or a realistic SH3 patrol, i offer the following lines taken from Hans Gruebels Memior, "Steel boats, Iron hearts":
Those were lazy days as we slowly plodded southward. During the cool nights, we would sit on the deck and stare at the Southern Cross, telling every story from our civlilan lives we could remember. At first it all seemed idylic to be sailing under these strange constellations towards our unknown fate. But after just three weeks out of Lorient, the boring routine began to grate on my nerves. The unending cycles of watch, trying to read with condensation water dripping on my English Textbook, someone telling his old story for the 10th time, the same phonograph record playing for the 100th time. For young guys like us, this was a kind of slow pshycologcal torture.
If SH3 played like that, or rather, if you played SH3 like that, i'll wager most people wouldnt play anymore, because it would be BORING. Point being, EVERYBODY here, even the most contencious rivet counter, makes compromises between realism and gameplay, between historicaly accurate, and "realistc" weither they acknowledge it or not.
Personally I love realism debates!!! :up:
By the way that is one of my favorite books. I picked it up last year in Chicago at the U-505 Exhibit! Awesome quote you picked!
Well guys I never thought this would be such a popular topic. I'll tell you guys about my play style. I have never tried to use manual targeting (I never got all the way through the tutorials on the net). I love the visual improvements. I'm very much a graphics guy. I always use the external view to take an exorbidant number of screens. That said I have read a fair bit of U-boat literature and tend to behave in a somewhat historically accurate way. I'm not hardcore as it were. I am however a big proponent of immersion. I love the atmousphere of games and movies. Das Boot is of course excellent at suspending your disbelief. Thats something I am hoping for. I want it to feel right. I want it to feel like a U-boat experience. The visuals are of course important to me. I am not thrilled by the prospect of having the exact way a torpedo damages a shipdown to historical standards. It sounds good enough but I wouldn't be intense enough to really care. For me I like the feel of a game being real. That's why I hate Call of Duty and absolutely love Brothers in Arms. If you know those two games then you should know what I mean. CoD isn't realistic so its not a perfect example. But it doesn't feel right. It just doesn't for me suspend my disbelief. Brotyhers in Arms however feels like a war experience. It gives you realistic details but makes concessions for fun.
Absolute realism isn't my preference. I prefer a realistic "feeling" experience. That makes me lean towards GW. That said I think I will try both (eventually). I have limited hard drive space as I share my computer. Also before I used a combo of IuB, RuB, and other mods I liked, to make it right for me. Eventually I'll likely make my own personal mod. Also I think this time around it'll be manual targeting for me. I want it to be harder but still fun.
Thanks for the input guys. Keep it coming.
Oh realism or not, remember that this is a game, and if someone
over here is so sure about his own research capability, that can say that GW is not to realistic, then guess what;
What exactly is beeing realistic when what you've got
Hard coded is not even closer to reality...
I personally think that GW broth a lot more of that, reallity of the
Real presure sufered by a Seaman on his Boat at sea during the WWII
Conflit...
Another thing his that when i (For example) i Don't know or am not sure
of something i do not start informing rongly people about a Mod or Any other kind
of SHIII Add-on!!
Kpt. Lehmann
07-14-06, 03:58 AM
If you want "Fun" and "Pretty", then go GW.
If you want to experience close to as possible what a real U-Boat Commander had to face then go NYGM....:up:
Magua your above statement is simply trolling and baiting. It has no basis in a "realism debate"... which in truth are really flame wars waiting to happen. Feel free to count every rivet you please. It is easy to take for free and then criticize. Instigate somewhere else.
I am sure you have the intellect to turn anything we say back on us. So we will give you the field to yell about whatever you like.
You haven't been here creating ANYTHING with anyone for any time at all. You are not qualified to judge the works of anyone here based on the difficulties all have overcome.
You are clueless and completely insensitive to the countless hours of work freely given by so many good members of this community to build GW or any mod for that matter... and continue to build it/them now.
Constructive criticism is welcome... trolling is just trolling.
why the heck does this allways boil down to realism......do we really need to justify our playing of a game that badly...? it's a realy scary debate guys--and it was dull in SH2.. and it's just as dull for SH3
have a debate about something else for a change eh..?
JScones
07-14-06, 04:24 AM
have a debate about something else for a change eh..?
How about "Does reading 'countless U-Boat Commander Autobiographies, Biographies, Logs, Interregation Reports, and General Histories' make one person the most authoritive on the subject to the degree of dismissing anyone else's viewpoint?"
Magua obviously isn't interested in anyone else's viewpoint. I suspect he'd even doubt the word of Topp or Kretchmer themselves (unless of course, it was written in some biography)!
When the Grey Wolf is dead, Magua will eat his heart. Before he dies, Magua will put his children under the knife, so the Grey Wolf will know his seed is wiped out forever.
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
Sorry, couldn't resist
have a debate about something else for a change eh..?
How about "Does reading 'countless U-Boat Commander Autobiographies, Biographies, Logs, Interregation Reports, and General Histories' make one person the most authoritive on the subject to the degree of dismissing anyone else's viewpoint?"
well it was just a thought ! we can all read you know--
gouldjg
07-14-06, 04:40 AM
have a debate about something else for a change eh..?
Did you know a African swallow can fly 80mph with a coconut on its head
have a debate about something else for a change eh..?
Did you know a African swallow can fly 80mph with a coconut on its head
oh you guys.....so there realy isn't anything else???
not very imaginative ....
how about wether having a comparison between two mod packs constantly reduced to the level of a d*ck measuring contest really benifits anyone??:yep::rotfl:
have a debate about something else for a change eh..?
Did you know a African swallow can fly 80mph with a coconut on its head
oh you guys.....so there realy isn't anything else???
not very imaginative ....
how about wether having a comparison between two mod packs constantly reduced to the level of a d*ck measuring contest really benifits anyone??:yep::rotfl:
Indeed.
I just want opinions about why people prefer one. No fallaces need be measured here gents. I think there's a CS forum somewhere that covers that base.
And like I said. Realism isn't my bag. It's immersion. It's that thing they call suspension of disbelief.
Henry Wood
07-14-06, 04:56 AM
[quote=CB..]
Did you know a African swallow can fly 80mph with a coconut on its head
Well, I never knew that! Even at my age I can learn something new every day.
(Was the coconut full or had the milk been drained off?)
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
gouldjg
07-14-06, 04:58 AM
Well for one
I do not need to measure **** size with anyone cos mine is always bigger.
For two
That was a joke you clearly do not understand and yet again try to make either mod team look like pillocks and in doing so make yourself look one also.
I am sick of this crap
If its not one teams efforts to discredit the others then its those whom try to play the independant and maturity stance but still fail to see what is tried to be achieved by both mod teams.
CB you always seem to think that just because there is a natural rivalry going on then both teams are pillocks ??????? grow up for christ sake. It is the likes of you whom are making it a open slander contest. I do not see any NYGM slagging of GW and I do not see GW slagging of NYGM lately.
Obviously there is a self interest in either mod but at the end of the day they work for their players and have a lot more patience than you. Not every player has the skill or wanting to grab every minute mod to make his own custom built game so why dont you just let those whom want to do big mods do big mods and let your sniping stop.
Then we get the noobs whom think the immpossible can be done and go quoting from their books blah de blah de blah which then gets me thinking CB has a point at times cos it always goes down to some form of sniping.
SAD SAD SAD
Henry Wood
07-14-06, 04:59 AM
[quote=CBhow about wether having a comparison between two mod packs constantly reduced to the level of a d*ck measuring contest really benifits anyone??:yep::rotfl:[/quote]
When you measure the decks I hope you always compare similar type boats and measure in metric for realism! [joke!]
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
gouldjg
07-14-06, 05:04 AM
[quote=CB..]
Did you know a African swallow can fly 80mph with a coconut on its head
Well, I never knew that! Even at my age I can learn something new every day.
(Was the coconut full or had the milk been drained off?)
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
The Milk was drained
I think the English swallow was the one with full milk lol
Long time that film but always gets me.
Now we wait for someone to mention that a English swallow never even appeared in the film and the fun starts.
IMO it's about time these two major mod packs were given their own forums---(similar to the pacific aces forum from SH2) then all matters can be delt with in as much detail as folks could possible desire without choking the main forums up with needless oppressive head banging and useless competition between factions
JScones
07-14-06, 05:05 AM
Did you know a African swallow can fly 80mph with a coconut on its head
Is this a Holy Grail reference? If so, then "yes, King Arthur!"
JScones
07-14-06, 05:09 AM
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Said the IXC to the IIA: "My decks bigger than yours..."
gouldjg
07-14-06, 05:13 AM
IMO it's about time these two major mod packs were given their own forums---(similar to the pacific aces forum from SH2) then all matters can be delt with in as much detail as folks could possible desire without choking the main forums up with needless oppressive head banging and useless competition between factions
Again your popping with with useless rubbish
The two mods are out there to make a collection of mods for player to play in one download. Thats it end of story, get over it.
Also I can recall many so called threads where nygm has helped GW or GW has helped NYGM so despite the small nit picks things still go forward and new things still get found. You also contribute to that part in things you discover and you also argue the point with pople whom challenge it.
What do you wanna really see CB
Both big mods disapear from subsim and it go to a place where we all have to trawl through hundreds of little mods and learn how to mod.
I do not wanna see that happen and I am sure other do not also.
Just get over this GW/NYGM so called war. I bet almost all I have that if in a pub both teams would just take the PIS* out of each other and laugh it off. The worrying thing is what if people are incapable of laughing things off.
EDIT
I just noticed Steibler is from the south so scratch that pub together thing, it just wont work lol only joking
no thanks your on you own ..:nope:
Kpt. Lehmann
07-14-06, 05:33 AM
Moderators please lock this thread. It has no useful purpose or outcome.
Indeed.People should stop making threads like this (which mode NYGM or GW) because in the end it is all about PERSONAL PREFERENCES.
Indeed.People should stop making threads like this (which mode NYGM or GW) because in the end it is all about PERSONAL PREFERENCES.
Which is exactly the point that many others and myself have been trying to get across in every other one of the threads that keep popping up with the "which is better NYGM or GW" topic.
This topic has been discussed to death already in numerous other threads that can be looked up.Yet it keeps popping up over and over again.REALISM IS UP TO THE PLAYER AS TO WHAT THEY FEEL IS REALISTIC AND THEIR INTERPRETATION OF REALISM.
This is why I cant stand the terms "realistic" and "realism" being used as they are way to open to interpretation and debate.To use the term "Historically Accurate" lowers the ability to argue..as you cannot argue cold hard facts if you can backup your claims with evidence.Sure there will still be some variations of the same data that will be up to interpretation but far less than simply saying I am making it realistic and having no evedence to backup your settings.Saying I am making it realistic opens up the debate because your settings will be your interpretation of what you feel is realistic and not someone else's idea of realism.Hence the debate and arguments over the mod start.
Just to give an example of how my term would work.And I hope I make some sense with this and some can see where I am coming from in my idea.
Take the RUB mod.Beery claimed it to be for die hard realism fans.His work was his interpretation of what he thought was realistic.The mod was great for a tougher game and was to a degree more "realistic" compared to the stock game.But as was debated numerous times in threads that started about some of the settings like the deck gun and other things.Many showed historical evidence that showed his settings to be historically incorrect.Yet he chose to not use them and continued with his own interpretation.
So here is where the terms realistic and histrically accurate come in to play.RUB was a "realism" mod in a sense that it was made based on the makers interpretation of realism.It however was NOT a "historically accurate" mod as evidence that people posted proved many settings he used were not historically correct.
As someone stated right after my post about the terms..both NYGM and GW teams are going for historical accuracy with their repective mods.Which is why I said that maybe they could use the term "A historically correct mod" instead of calling it a "realism mod".This way they are not as open for debates on realism.
If you want "Fun" and "Pretty", then go GW.
If you want to experience close to as possible what a real U-Boat Commander had to face then go NYGM....:up:
Magua your above statement is simply trolling and baiting. It has no basis in a "realism debate"... which in truth are really flame wars waiting to happen. Feel free to count every rivet you please. It is easy to take for free and then criticize. Instigate somewhere else.
I am sure you have the intellect to turn anything we say back on us. So we will give you the field to yell about whatever you like.
You haven't been here creating ANYTHING with anyone for any time at all. You are not qualified to judge the works of anyone here based on the difficulties all have overcome.
You are clueless and completely insensitive to the countless hours of work freely given by so many good members of this community to build GW or any mod for that matter... and continue to build it/them now.
Constructive criticism is welcome... trolling is just trolling.
You don't seem to welcome any Criticism at all. I give my reasons for not liking Single Ship Contacts and you respond by attacking me. Instead of defending your position you say I am "Trolling"......
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/4963/gmlock2ht.gif :damn:
Maybe we should respect Magua's opinion...
Should we distrust the man because his manners are not our manners, and that his skin is dark?
:rotfl:
Maybe we should respect Magua's opinion...
Should we distrust the man because his manners are not our manners, and that his skin is dark?
:rotfl:
:-? What are you babbling about, no one said anything about Magua's colour. I don't even know, NOR do I care what it is or where he is from. Also, there is another argument between two other people at the same time here.
JScones
07-14-06, 08:50 AM
Maybe we should respect Magua's opinion...
Should we distrust the man because his manners are not our manners, and that his skin is dark?
:rotfl:
:-? What are you babbling about, no one said anything about Magua's colour. I don't even know, NOR do I care what it is or where he is from. Also, there is another argument between two other people at the same time here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magua
And I only know because I just spoke to Boris and asked him! :rotfl:
Indeed.People should stop making threads like this (which mode NYGM or GW) because in the end it is all about PERSONAL PREFERENCES.
Which is exactly the point that many others and myself have been trying to get across in every other one of the threads that keep popping up with the "which is better NYGM or GW" topic.
...
I understand where you're coming from and (and based on this thread!) why but for someone like me a thread like this could actually really useful - well in theory anyway! I've just reinstalled SHIII after a big gap and having these supermods makes for an easy way to get everything up-to-date. The downside is that because I don't know the individual mods making up the different packs there's no easy way for me to judge what's having what effect on the game. Also as both are so big it isn't really that practical for me to systematically run through each mod to compare what's going on...so a side-by-side comparison is just what I'd love!
Sadly all the comparisons I've come across consist of really subjective comments about realism, when I'd be more interested in a detailed description of (for example) how each mod alters the damage model or shipping distributions, AI, etc, etc, etc... From there I could have a look and make a judgement for myself what seems to be the more realistic, immersive or most enjoyable. For now I've plumped for GW because I understand the changes it's made a little better, but I'd love to see a summary of what each mod does and how they differ.
Have fun
Finn
Spaxspore
07-14-06, 09:34 AM
ive tired GW, i liked it however, once am used to the stock naviagtion chart IE colors, tails,etc. its hard for me to switch to something else once i get comfortable on how certain things looks and feel. IF they allow you to use the orginal unmodded naviagation/TDC screen then ill play it. UNtil then am playing Uboat ACE mod.Its such a same cause it looks soo kewl.
Finn has a point there.But from the start this thread was "doomed" to put it this way.That phrase..."sell me " was not such a good ideea.That would automatically lead to subjective comments on mods and flame-wars which don't help with anything and you don't get your question answered.If you check the website/sticky of each mod ,you will see tech info there.Also,if you don't really get what the mod is about from those threads/websites,you can download a readme or manual and "study up":).
have a debate about something else for a change eh..?
How about "Does reading 'countless U-Boat Commander Autobiographies, Biographies, Logs, Interregation Reports, and General Histories' make one person the most authoritive on the subject to the degree of dismissing anyone else's viewpoint?"
Magua obviously isn't interested in anyone else's viewpoint. I suspect he'd even doubt the word of Topp or Kretchmer themselves (unless of course, it was written in some biography)!
JScones is quick to make rude statements but offers no intelligent counter viewpoint.
And what is your viewpoint? What is your opinion on single ship contacts appearing on the Navigation Map miles out of visual range? All I see are attacks on my opinion, but no one able to offer another view or facts. And not just "what might happen", "what happened once", or "what could happen". Back up your attacks on my opinions with facts. Do you have any?
The original point of this topic was the "Sell Me" statement from the original poster. All I've done is play the role of a salesman.
Ducimus
07-14-06, 01:03 PM
What is the airspeed velocity of an unlaiden swallow?
Oh ya... almost forgot, for those who don't quite understand how their actions are causing adverse reactions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiting_(Internet)
Maybe we should respect Magua's opinion...
Should we distrust the man because his manners are not our manners, and that his skin is dark?
:rotfl:
:-? What are you babbling about, no one said anything about Magua's colour. I don't even know, NOR do I care what it is or where he is from. Also, there is another argument between two other people at the same time here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magua
And I only know because I just spoke to Boris and asked him! :rotfl:
Not that it matters, but if you must know:
White, American, 39yrs old, Veteran. Live, work, and play in Chicago, Illinois
Sailor Steve
07-14-06, 01:17 PM
African or European?
And what is your viewpoint? What is your opinion on single ship contacts appearing on the Navigation Map miles out of visual range? All I see are attacks on my opinion, but no one able to offer another view or facts. And not just "what might happen", "what happened once", or "what could happen". Back up your attacks on my opinions with facts. Do you have any?
Single ship contacts are based on the fact that occassionally BdU would intercept radio messages from ships, triangulate their position and send it to nearby u-boats. Is that fact enough?
Their 'attacks' on you had nothing to do with single ship contacts, but rather your flat statement that NYGM is "...close to as possible what a real U-Boat Commander had to face..." and GW is "...fun and pretty...", implying that the latter is that and nothing else. Their 'attacks' were in response to what was nothing less than a flat-out insult.
You may think they overreacted. I think you owe them an apology.
But that's just my opinion and not based on any facts.
In which direction is it flying and what are the weather conditions? lol:rotfl:
Stiebler
07-14-06, 01:29 PM
GouldJG said:
Just get over this GW/NYGM so called war. I bet almost all I have that if in a pub both teams would just take the PIS* out of each other and laugh it off. The worrying thing is what if people are incapable of laughing things off.
EDIT
I just noticed Steibler is from the south so scratch that pub together thing, it just wont work lol only joking
I don't mind travelling a bit.
Stiebler.
African or European?
And what is your viewpoint? What is your opinion on single ship contacts appearing on the Navigation Map miles out of visual range? All I see are attacks on my opinion, but no one able to offer another view or facts. And not just "what might happen", "what happened once", or "what could happen". Back up your attacks on my opinions with facts. Do you have any?
Single ship contacts are based on the fact that occassionally BdU would intercept radio messages from ships, triangulate their position and send it to nearby u-boats. Is that fact enough?
No, I'm sorry that is not enough. Could you please provide the name of the source or documentation, author's name, and page number? Thanks!:)
gouldjg
07-14-06, 01:49 PM
GouldJG said:
Just get over this GW/NYGM so called war. I bet almost all I have that if in a pub both teams would just take the PIS* out of each other and laugh it off. The worrying thing is what if people are incapable of laughing things off.
EDIT
I just noticed Steibler is from the south so scratch that pub together thing, it just wont work lol only joking
I don't mind travelling a bit.
Stiebler.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
You know what us northern bloody monkeys are like :up: .
All said and done and getting back to the original topic and without it going down the road of "what I do for a living makes me more knowledgable than you droll droll droll"
GW is very very very far from what can be called a gamey experience and NYGM is very far from what people perceive as rivet counting etc.
Both mods do a great job at what they do and that is to please a number of users whom are not yet capable or cannot be bothered doing a thousand and one changes in their files to get to a certain level of gameplay.
We should hang our heads in shame at times like this cos none of us are right at the end of the day.:nope:
Maybe it is time to just accept we are all different and have different play needs and let each other get on with it without sniping at each other. By all means slap a critical point in here and there that will need a opinion of sorts but do not force the issue as it is nullified from day one.
I cannot get any more platonic than that. Despite not seeing everything eye to eye on some mods, I have the utmost respect to those whom build them and spend time testing them and find new things whether this is NYGM/GW one single modder etc etc.
I will not stoop so low and call something in a way to demene its intentions in any way even if I did have written litrature to show this to be otherwise.
As long as the subs do not fly and launch nukes then the modder, no matter whom he is, deserves the credit for his work.
Ducimus
07-14-06, 02:00 PM
Single ship contacts are based on the fact that occassionally BdU would intercept radio messages from ships, triangulate their position and send it to nearby u-boats. Is that fact enough?
An example would be Reinhard Hardegen's U-123 during operation drumbeat. He got a single ship report and went to go sink it. However the allies had also intercepted said transmission and sent two destroyers in the area to wait for him. Hardegen saw the tin cans as he approached and left the ship alone deciding it wasnt worth the risk it presented.
Kpt. Lehmann
07-14-06, 02:12 PM
African or European?
And what is your viewpoint? What is your opinion on single ship contacts appearing on the Navigation Map miles out of visual range? All I see are attacks on my opinion, but no one able to offer another view or facts. And not just "what might happen", "what happened once", or "what could happen". Back up your attacks on my opinions with facts. Do you have any?
Single ship contacts are based on the fact that occassionally BdU would intercept radio messages from ships, triangulate their position and send it to nearby u-boats. Is that fact enough?
No, I'm sorry that is not enough. Could you please provide the name of the source or documentation, author's name, and page number? Thanks!:)
You made the statement that the single ship contacts were "unrealistic" without qualifying or quantifying it.
Nothing you have said here qualifies your so called "opinion." In the end it comes down to you claiming to be some sort of authority on the subject without backing it up.
I don't give a damn where you come from or what color you are... and I am a veteran myself. (And before you ask... it is none of your damn business.)
It is apparent to me that you haven't played GW... though maybe now you will claim to have done so.
We await your modded "realism" contributions with baited breath. :huh: :huh: :huh:
How about offering something real instead of childish rantings.
Spaxspore
07-14-06, 02:22 PM
African or European?
And what is your viewpoint? What is your opinion on single ship contacts appearing on the Navigation Map miles out of visual range? All I see are attacks on my opinion, but no one able to offer another view or facts. And not just "what might happen", "what happened once", or "what could happen". Back up your attacks on my opinions with facts. Do you have any? Single ship contacts are based on the fact that occassionally BdU would intercept radio messages from ships, triangulate their position and send it to nearby u-boats. Is that fact enough?
No, I'm sorry that is not enough. Could you please provide the name of the source or documentation, author's name, and page number? Thanks!:)
You made the statement that the single ship contacts were "unrealistic" without qualifying or quantifying it.
Nothing you have said here qualifies your so called "opinion." In the end it comes down to you claiming to be some sort of authority on the subject without backing it up.
I don't give a damn where you come from or what color you are... and I am a veteran myself. (And before you ask... it is none of your damn business.)
It is apparent to me that you haven't played GW... though maybe now you will claim to have done so.
We await your modded "realism" contributions with baited breath. :huh: :huh: :huh:
How about offering something real instead of childish rantings.
Wow, am not touching this one with a 20 Foot Pole :)
But consider this... can every ship in the entire british merchant marine be in a convoy or escorted by a warship 24/7???
I dont think so.
African or European?
And what is your viewpoint? What is your opinion on single ship contacts appearing on the Navigation Map miles out of visual range? All I see are attacks on my opinion, but no one able to offer another view or facts. And not just "what might happen", "what happened once", or "what could happen". Back up your attacks on my opinions with facts. Do you have any?
Single ship contacts are based on the fact that occassionally BdU would intercept radio messages from ships, triangulate their position and send it to nearby u-boats. Is that fact enough?
No, I'm sorry that is not enough. Could you please provide the name of the source or documentation, author's name, and page number? Thanks!:)
You made the statement that the single ship contacts were "unrealistic" without qualifying or quantifying it.
Nothing you have said here qualifies your so called "opinion." In the end it comes down to you claiming to be some sort of authority on the subject without backing it up.
I don't give a damn where you come from or what color you are... and I am a veteran myself. (And before you ask... it is none of your damn business.)
It is apparent to me that you haven't played GW... though maybe now you will claim to have done so.
We await your modded "realism" contributions with baited breath. :huh: :huh: :huh:
How about offering something real instead of childish rantings.
Ah yes, I should have predicted it. Once again the attacks without any concrete viewpoint. I'll go ahead and list my sources if that makes you feel better:
U-Boat Commander - Peter Cremer
The Golden Horshoe - Terence Robertson
Another Place Another Time - Werner Hirshmnann
Wolf - Jordon Vause
Torpedoes in the Gulf - Melanie Wiggins
Steel Boats, Iron Hears - Hans Goebeler
Iron Coffins - Herbert Werner
Shadows on the Horizon - W A Haskell
Opertion Drumbeat - Micahel Gammon
U-Boat Ace - Jordon Vause
Countless Log and Interrogation reports
It funny in that I have seen this topic of single ship map contacts on the forums before and someone always mentions the one where Hardegan was directed to a significant single merchant on his way to Drumbeat (it is in Gammon's Book). And that is the only, repeat only recorded case....Can you base the game's entire single ship contact feature on this ONE incident in six years of the war???? And it was a very large ship, not your typical tramp steamer.
In all of the other recorded reports of sinkings the facts are clear: They found the single ships with no BDU Help, no advance warning...Convoys Yes, Single Ships ...NO.
The Single ships were always a happy surprise....
Have a nice day.
By the way, one of your cohorts brought up the color thing not I.
Kpt. Lehmann
07-14-06, 03:04 PM
I am not asking you to list your sources... I can quote many of the same sources and others. I am asking you to list evidence to the contrary that single ship contacts were not reported or plotted by U-boat commanders and other means.
The fact remains that you have stated an opinion without backing it up.
We offered one example... true... which is better than having offered no example as you have done.
In GW Contacts are grey in order to require the player to identify the viability of a target visually.
Furthermore, whoever told you that every individual ship is reported to the GW player as a contact is incorrect.
Mod your game as you wish.
We certainly will.
Regarding "attacks" I invite each reader to review Magua's posts and judge for themselves.
I am not asking you to list your sources... I can quote many of the same sources and others. I am asking you to list evidence to the contrary that single ship contacts were not reported or plotted by U-boat commanders and other means.
The fact remains that you have stated an opinion without backing it up.
We offered one example... true... which is better than having offered no example as you have done.
In GW Contacts are grey in order to require the player to identify the viability of a target visually.
Furthermore, whoever told you that every individual ship is reported to the GW player as a contact is incorrect.
Mod your game as you wish.
We certainly will.
Regarding "attacks" I invite each reader to review Magua's posts and judge for themselves.
The Opinion that I have stated, with backing from the above sources, is that U-Boat Commanders had no advance warning of single ships until it was visually spotted. Once it was visually spotted (with the eyes), then the Navigator Plotted it on the Map. It was attacked and sunk. End of single ship contact. The backing for my opinion is told countless times in the books I listed. In the Hardegan case you have one example for your opinion. For the contrary view it is told countless times in the sources.
So to have single ship contacts of whatever color out of visual range on the map is in my opinion (backed up by my sources) not correct. It makes it easier in the game to find ships however, if that is what you want to do.
I've played both the MODS, and one of them (i'm not going to name it) gives the players the option to use single ship contacts or not. That combined with the postings I've read here in the last year tell me that I am definately not alone in my opinion.
Schpeedy
07-14-06, 04:11 PM
Yeah, So...
Which One Has More Indepth Engine Controls ???
Which One Can Park Uboat On Sea Floor Without Totalling The Boat ???
Does Either Mod Have A Better Way To Fight Aircraft ??? ( I Can't See Any Planes Practically Untill They Are Dropping Thier Bombs )
--------------------------------------------------------
I Am Trying To Make A Decision And Most Of You Are Making Us Read Through Countless Offtopic Bickering Posts.
bigboywooly
07-14-06, 04:54 PM
Yawn
Same old
"Im right" - "he's wrong"
Install both - play both and make your own mind up
Simple
Yawn
Same old
"Im right" - "he's wrong"
Install both - play both and make your own mind up
Simple
Exactly :up:
All that the modders can do is improve the vanilla version of SH3..ALL mods have thier good points AND bad points...all you have to do as a player is choose the one you like the best. :yep:
Theta Sigma
07-14-06, 05:30 PM
Which One Can Park Uboat On Sea Floor Without Totalling The Boat ???
and the answer is....? :)
Onkel Neal
07-14-06, 06:41 PM
Once again, locked.
Neal
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