688i's NB, that bad?

[Ori_b]

Im experimenting with the mission editor, training myself with simple scenarios.
Ive noticed the fact that the NB display of the 688i will not show peaks (not even the tiny "is it there?" peak) although the frequency display shows quite clear lines.

BB display wont show lines in SHORT, only on INTERMEDIATE.

This was with a civil ship sailing at 5 knots at a 10.6nm.

Checked every array.

Change type of sub in the editor - All the other types of playble subs show peaks even in the BB display at this distance.

:-?

[LuftWolf]

I've never noticed any problems.

Make sure you control for variable acoustic conditions between trial runs, even in the same mission run multiple times.

I've been fooled on several occasions by scenarios run multiple times, only to realize that the scenario was slightly different each time (layer at different depth, etc.).

Cheers,
David

[sonar732]

Im experimenting with the mission editor, training myself with simple scenarios.
Ive noticed the fact that the NB display of the 688i will not show peaks (not even the tiny "is it there?" peak) although the frequency display shows quite clear lines.

BB display wont show lines in SHORT, only on INTERMEDIATE.

This was with a civil ship sailing at 5 knots at a 10.6nm.

Checked every array.

Change type of sub in the editor - All the other types of playble subs show peaks even in the BB display at this distance.

:-?

Something that will help us is your depth. The 688 will show peaks, but at 10.6nmi away, they will be minimal if the sound conditions are right.

[Ori_b]

My depth is 150m for Acula, Sw, 688I
75m for Kilo

Clear sea, very deep (17000+), bottom limited condition.

Continued my testing, started to see peaks at about 5nm! (and thats after i saw faint lines in TA BB.
Again, all this happenes while very bright lines can be seen in the freq display of the BB, its just a matter of running blindly with the cursor in the strength Vs azimuth display.

[Ori_b]

Oops, i meant very bright lines can be seen in the frequency display of the NB of course.

[Fish]

My depth is 150m for Acula, Sw, 688I
75m for Kilo

Clear sea, very deep (17000+), bottom limited condition.

Continued my testing, started to see peaks at about 5nm! (and thats after i saw faint lines in TA BB.
Again, all this happenes while very bright lines can be seen in the freq display of the BB, its just a matter of running blindly with the cursor in the strength Vs azimuth display.

Layer depth?

[Ori_b]

Non excisting (Bottom Limited condition).

[LuftWolf]

I can't repeat this on my computer. The NB is always properly sync'ed with the BB.

I suggest reinstalling and see if this makes any difference.

I've never seen this particular issue before.

[Ori_b]

If by that you mean that you see coincident directions of both NB and BB signals from the same target, i didnt say that this is the case. I can designate the NB signal from the frequency lines display and its direction matches the 1 from BB.
The problem is only the lack of any feedback from the signal strength-azimuth display in NB up to extremly close ranges.

If you didnt mean that, then i wasted the last 10 sec of your life, sorry for that, ill try the reinstalling method when i come back home.

[Wim Libaers]

To find contacts at long range in the 688i and Seawolf, the technique has always been to scan the NB display and look at the frequency lines that pop up (with gamma adjusted to see even the faintest lines). Not sure if this is also how it is done on real subs, but in the game, this was even true in Sub command.

[Ori_b]

No use :shifty:
Installed the game again, with the same training mission (conditions mentioned above), same result.
Only the 688i wont show peaks in NB above 6nm (while at the same time frequency lines can be seen clearly in the NB freq display without any problems in 10+nm). Kilo\Akula already show BB peaks at this higher range.
Not too happy about this, its making the NB search much more tedious.


BTW
I dont remember it from the demo (uninstalled it already), but does the DEMON display in Kilo (and Akula) only work with BB spherical trackers and not with BB conformal ones?
It doesnt say anything like that in the manual.

And they still didnt fix the manual error saying that only the DEMON lines after the first1 to the left represent blads No.

[sonar732]

No use :shifty:

Only the 688i wont show peaks in NB above 6nm (while at the same time frequency lines can be seen clearly in the NB freq display without any problems in 10+nm).

Possible CZ here.????

Kilo\Akula already show BB peaks at this higher range.

That's because it's BroadBand. It would be the same thing if your 688 showed a contact in the waterfall display.

[Ori_b]

What i mean is that from what i know NB frequency sounds have greater range than BB. Buts for some reason i see peaks and lines in the BB but do not see peaks (only lines) in NB. My logic says this should be the opposite.
Are the sensors of the Kilo and Akula much better than the 688i?

[Ori_b]

LuftWolf, if you want i can send you my training scenario.

[Ori_b]

Or not...

Ok, I give up on this NB subject (I'll get use to it although something is wrong here),

Still, can any1 answer my question about the Kilo DEMON and BB trackers i've asked 4 posts above this one?

Thanks,

[Kapitan]

Dont forget though the 688i is the loudest submarine in the entire game its easily detected by akula's kilo's and seawolfs, the NB sonar system is a bit rubbish ive used it myself and its pretty blind i pick up more in my akula than anything else realy.

[Ori_b]

So far, based on my limited xp i agree with you. seems like after 2 months of kilo demo i prefer the russian subs. :)

Sorry for being so annoying, can you answer my question about the DEMON-BB trackers, its really bothering me.

[Kapitan]

Unless you are trailing a submarine incredibly close you wont have a submarine contact on your BB, if im hunting subs i wont even bother with BB unless of corse i know theres surface ships as well.

most sensative piece of kit on the subs is the towed array most sensative band of sonar is narrow band so you look through there, you should get two contacts the acctual and the ghost, to eliminate the ghost turn 45 degrees and the contact that moves is the ghost.

[Zerogreat]

Sorry for being so annoying, can you answer my question about the DEMON-BB trackers, its really bothering me.

:D
Well, in Kilo, demon works only on the cylindrical array, on akula and other subs it is cylindrical/sphere AND towed array. So, no demon on hull arrays.

[LuftWolf]

No use :shifty:
Installed the game again, with the same training mission (conditions mentioned above), same result.
Only the 688i wont show peaks in NB above 6nm (while at the same time frequency lines can be seen clearly in the NB freq display without any problems in 10+nm). Kilo\Akula already show BB peaks at this higher range.
Not too happy about this, its making the NB search much more tedious.


BTW
I dont remember it from the demo (uninstalled it already), but does the DEMON display in Kilo (and Akula) only work with BB spherical trackers and not with BB conformal ones?
It doesnt say anything like that in the manual.

And they still didnt fix the manual error saying that only the DEMON lines after the first1 to the left represent blads No.

I think you are comparing apples and oranges... I think just play the game and have fun. :) DW has been pretty well tested up to this point.

In stock 1.03 it's ok, with LWAMI 3.02 all the major bugs and inconsistencies are gone, except for one or two dealing with Helos and Aircraft, some of which is my fault for expanding capability without correcting pre-existing errors first, thus sort of picking a scab, but it works well enough that I don't know of anyone who stopped using it because of errors. And if anyone has I'd like to know...

Cheers,
David

PS And yes NB searches in western platforms are a bit tedious, but the compensation is better overall sensor performance. Personally, I do prefer the Akula sonar interface, especially in battle. Although in low-density contact situations, the western waterfall is quite useful.