Help me get rid of this damn flower corvette

[Immacolata]

Using NYGM 2.01 in may 1940. I sank 2 large cargo ships in a convoy and went below. I managed to shake off 1 destroyer, but this flower corvette just won't let go of me. I try to keep my arse in his general direction, swerving away so that when he does his post-attack run circle sweep he should see my crew mooning his sonar. But he spots me like we were two air crafts circling another. 100% sure, every time. I change depths and run for it in like 20 seconds, then go to 1 knot and wait it out. PING. Is this normal behaviour for a 1940 crew on a flower corvette out of ammo?

I read somewhere that they "lost" interest at some point. This guy seems ready to marry me, he brought flowers even. How are you supposed to shake such a thing off? Im off the coast of ireland, its about 100m here so I cant go really low... but does that really matter anyway? He is long out of drums, so he just harasses me at this point.

[CB..]

i don't use NYGM BUT when i have seen this sort of persistance once or twice---you can sit there for hours and round he will go ad infinitum--allmost as if he is stuck in a loop--

save your game and exit (if NYGM allows) then reload the save --this "woke" the escort up on the odd occasion ive seen this --and off he would go back to the convoy---

[Immacolata]

¨The thing is, he keeps finding me, so that is probably why he sticks around. But where did he get the GPS sonar from? Im running silent at 90ms, 1 knot, switching directions as I can. He does "8" passes and spots me like with what must be a laser beam. Is there no way to avoid this kind of perpertual detection? Is this stock SH3 behaviour or a special sadistic NYGM realism alteration? Or am I just a noob skipper who couldn't make cork float even if my life depended on it?

[Immacolata]

God damnit. Now Ive spent my entire sunday noon trying to get this stupid corvette off my tail. And with infallable skill he picks me up EVERY single time he has made a turn. Even if I lay dead in the water with my arse in his face. 10m. 50m. 100m. Doesn't make a damn difference.

Someone tell me what files I can mod to turn him deaf and blind at least for long enough so I can get away and continue my game. Being suppresed by an omniscient flower corvette that is out of ammo for half a day is not my kind of fun. :damn:

[CB..]

¨The thing is, he keeps finding me, so that is probably why he sticks around. But where did he get the GPS sonar from? Im running silent at 90ms, 1 knot, switching directions as I can. He does "8" passes and spots me like with what must be a laser beam. Is there no way to avoid this kind of perpertual detection? Is this stock SH3 behaviour or a special sadistic NYGM realism alteration? Or am I just a noob skipper who couldn't make cork float even if my life depended on it?

to be honest i think (only think mind) that it is a slight "glitch" in the AI--
on the few occasions (and i can can only count two in all the time i've been playing) where i got stuck with an escort having run out of DC's perpeptually circling over head and completely un-shakable-the sub detection meter staying red even when i was out side his sensor field---I saved the game --reloaded the save then after a few minutes the escort gave up and i could contunue the patrol--

[Immacolata]

No such luck here, he seems not to be glitched but just kitted out with anti-submarine warfare electronics anno 2006, not 1940.

I think Ive saved and loaded about 20 times now, that doesn't deter him the least. I never had so much problems before.

[Dutch]

Unfortunatly (nothing bad on either mod) this is a result in both NYGM and GW. They tweaked the AI or tweaked the sonar or something, which causes random obssesive AI at some point and time, its almost impossible. You should consider yourself lucky. When this happened to me everytime he would find me and would radio in a new escort to pound me. In some Uber-AI-Nior way it was exciting, I guess something like this could have happened but I seriously doubt it.

The only solution I can think of is either A: Sink Him. B: Keep trying. C: Surface and say for the love of just leave me alone! lol. Anyways goodluck and repot back.

[CB..]

No such luck here, he seems not to be glitched but just kitted out with anti-submarine warfare electronics anno 2006, not 1940.

I think Ive saved and loaded about 20 times now, that doesn't deter him the least. I never had so much problems before.

i think the problem with editing any files and reloading the save game to try to continue might be that this might cause all sorts of other problems and still not solve the situation (the old thing of editing things actually during a patrol that is well known)

if i were you i would abandon the patrol --put it down to some paranormal event--and start a new one--

you may- if you do experience this trouble constantly--and you need to be sure that it is a problem -not an intended part of the difficulty inherent in NYGM --edit the sim.cfg (data/cfg/sim.cfg)
and experiment with reducing the

[AI detection]
Lost contact time=1 ;[min]

what might happen if you do this mid patrol i have no idea--but if it worked you could then set it back to the NGYM norm for your next patrol--

if you personally do find that the same thing happens frequently and it is allways a corvette that is the problem ship--then go into your
data/sea/ folder and open the NCO_Flower folder and then edit the NCO_Flower.cfg

[Unit]
ClassName=COFlower
UnitType=1
MaxSpeed=16

the max speed can conflict with the normall tendency for the sensors to go dead when an escort exceeds a certain speed

again as set in the Sim.cfg
find the

Speed factor=15
entrys for the hyrdophone and sonar sections

as the corvettes are much slower than the normal DDs
some times they end up never reaching the speed needed for the sensors to become temporarily blinded--

which may provoke this problem from time to time--

as this is a game not real life there wouldn't be any harm in slightly reducing the speed factor settings or slightly increasing the corvettes max speed to try to get round this --course you didn't hear this from me--i dont need the argument..

[Immacolata]

Unfortunatly (nothing bad on either mod) this is a result in both NYGM and GW. They tweaked the AI or tweaked the sonar or something, which causes random obssesive AI at some point and time, its almost impossible. You should consider yourself lucky. When this happened to me everytime he would find me and would radio in a new escort to pound me. In some Uber-AI-Nior way it was exciting, I guess something like this could have happened but I seriously doubt it.

The only solution I can think of is either A: Sink Him. B: Keep trying. C: Surface and say for the love of just leave me alone! lol. Anyways goodluck and repot back.

Bleh. I don't like it when you go so far down the holy path of realism that you break the game. Not that it needed breaking from the get go. Anyways thanks for clearing it up, that this super obsessive Flower Corvette is created by an AI mod. Now, if I could just figure out how to remove the offending part I might be able to actually play SH3 again. Im not going to risk wasting my time on another dead-in-the-water patrol before I find out whats causing this.

[edit 2]Oh Ill try haxing the Corvette a bit then if the problem comes back. No, wait. I think Ill do it right now. Put it to 18, see what happens then next time I get into a pinch.

I might try setting that value to 1, question is if the game reads that sim.cfg file everytime you load a game, or just when you start one?

[edit] WHEW! That worked. Thanks. But really, the game is no longer fun if I know Im going to end up with an escort that cheats with super sensors so good I can never escape. Is there a way to make it a wee bit less of a hack? I saw somewhere that theres a thermal layer mod somewhere, that might be what I needed in this game to be able to slip away?

[CB..]

WHEW! That worked. Thanks. But really, the game is no longer fun if I know Im going to end up with an escort that cheats with super sensors so good I can never escape. Is there a way to make it a wee bit less of a hack? I saw somewhere that theres a thermal layer mod somewhere, that might be what I needed in this game to be able to slip away?

well now you know what to do make your own mod!!!:ping:

[Immacolata]

Only the lost time hack works, fiddling with those other settings seems to do absolutely nothing. Of course, it could be something other than a flower corvette thats hounding me, but Im pretty sure it is a flower.

[CB..]

Only the lost time hack works, fiddling with those other settings seems to do absolutely nothing. Of course, it could be something other than a flower corvette thats hounding me, but Im pretty sure it is a flower.

there are some small patrol craft in the game which do look very similar to the corvette-- the NATF
which i think is the small patrol craft--this will have the same problems with the max speed as the corvette--but if as you say the lost contact time was the answer then that is some-where to experiment--

as for it being a hack well that's for you to decide--

[Immacolata]

Well hack it is, because if I set the lost time contact to 1 minute, Ill never again have to worry about being dc'ed for 1 hour after an attack run. 1 minute lost time means that all I have to do to get off the hook is to keep the stealth-o-meter green for 60 seconds. Thats way gamey.

Unfortunately it is the only answer I have to the Über Corvette with the GPS lock on my absolute position. I managed to shake off a destroyer, however. I wonder if the SIM.cfg "hack" of the sensors will kick into effect immediately, or first after a restart of a patrol. The Lost time value works immediately, but I saw no improvement else. It still homed in on me like flies on a cow pie.

Another thing is, I didn't really have problems with the corvette going blind in its attack run. It did, I got some precious seconds "in the green light" where I could try and manouver at flank speed. However, it simply wasn't enough before it stopped the run and started turning, thereby unavoidably reacquiring its iron gaze on my position and doing yet a new figure 8 attack run, and so forth and so forth. No matter where I was or what I did to try and fool it. Its the sensors it has that are way too good.

What are the other values for, btw? Would they be worth fiddling with?

[Tedo]

Try to go on periscope depth. Use 1 knot there and evade. Thats what i do. I had 6 destroyers on my ass and i was just at PD with 1 knot. They couldnt use sonar i think, but they were listening. There were also some close encounters like 30 meters away but nothing serious.

[HunterICX]

Flower Corvette...an Low Class Destroyer.

sometimes...I just want to take them out first before taking out the big ones:stare:

[CB..]

Well hack it is, because if I set the lost time contact to 1 minute, Ill never again have to worry about being dc'ed for 1 hour after an attack run. 1 minute lost time means that all I have to do to get off the hook is to keep the stealth-o-meter green for 60 seconds. Thats way gamey.



well dont look at me---of course there is no law that says you have to set it at one minute:rotfl: give me a break!!!
you wanted a quick easy answer to losing this corvette i gave it to you--what you do now is entirely your own misdemeanour

there are numbers between one and 45 you know...gawd people---use your brain

next time i'll leave you whinging:rotfl:

[Immacolata]

Well hack it is, because if I set the lost time contact to 1 minute, Ill never again have to worry about being dc'ed for 1 hour after an attack run. 1 minute lost time means that all I have to do to get off the hook is to keep the stealth-o-meter green for 60 seconds. Thats way gamey.



well dont look at me---of course there is no law that says you have to set it at one minute:rotfl: give me a break!!!
you wanted a quick easy answer to losing this corvette i gave it to you--what you do now is entirely your own misdemeanour

there are numbers between one and 45 you know...gawd people---use your brain

next time i'll leave you whinging:rotfl:

But whingeing is essential to any good gaming experience! Thanks, really, because I modded the guy to leave me alone, then changed the value back later. I took him out with my deck gun as he scooted off, haha. In yer face!

Anyways, I was moaning at the superiority of the flower corvette in general. I just ran into another.:shifty: So far we've played cat and mouse about 25 minutes, he is not quite as nasty as the first one, but he isn't out of cans yet. If he turns into the same mean Corvette of Doom like the last one, Ill mod him down to 1 minute as well. This time Im dived down to 120m, not sure if that affects it. I also modded the times
you mentioned, perhaps that kicked in finally.

[Der Teddy Bar]

Immacolata,
The escorts are not impossible but require a more historical approach.

The 'Silent Running' no longer enables the Klingon invisibility cloak and requires a more historical approach when silent running. That is, you will need to travel at 1 and at most 2 knots.

Also note that shallow water is VERY dangerous and that excessive speed such as 3 knots when shallow may give away your position.

I hope that these threads assist you to better the improved but far from impossible escorts.

How to escape the Über-AI (NYGM2.0)
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=94201

In the immortal words of Ali G ‘Respect’, a new way of playing…
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=93981

Crash Dive Blues!
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=92883

NYGM ruined my weekend
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=94720

[kiwi_2005]

providing your still got plenty of battery power left, go at Flank speed, zigzag, yep of course he will ping you at flank speed, flank speed, slow down then flank speed & slow down repeat. - only slow down when he turns away from you not when hes on top of you. I know this is madness, but the AI either give up for reasons that this kapitan is crazy lets get the hell out of here! Or the AI time is up and they return. but this works for me. *most times* :p

[Dutch]

Its a ballsy move, but you could try running at P depth as somoene mentioned earlier. The ASDIC has a certain angle it and activly search for which limits it when you are closer to the surface. Its really hard to explain, and its not a textbook manuver either. I recommend keeping the P down and just listening via sonar and keep track with the little buggar till its away, from what you said its the active sonar thats biting you, so maybe you can sneak away with the passive?

Could try that next time, you might get away, you might bit the dust?:88)

[Immacolata]

Well I broke and gunned the bastard out of the atlantic first time.

Thanks for the links Teddy, perhaps that should be made into the nygm manual, a sort of player's guide to the harsh reality of Un-Grandmotherly Warfare.

I think perhaps I might have begun to understand a bit of the tactics you describe, TeddyBär. Yes, the pinging drives me up the wall. I actually yelled out at my monitor "How the hell did he find me!!" after I had gone undetected for several minutes. I know I must have yelled because my dog went completely nuts jumping up and trying to appease his old man.

I have become much better at using my hydrophones to listen after his movements and try to counter them with my own. So I keep undetected for longer now, and even if I experience heavy moments of :damn: 'ishness I do feel very sly and super proud even i I just sank one ship and had to take 3 hours of pounding for it.

And we're talking a 1940 flower corvette here :oops: I mean, how am I possibly going to LIVE through anything beyond 1942?

Oh and another thing. Will North Sea patrols be possible, even? If you need at least 100 meters of water below your keel to survive, many places in the north sea won't be proper.

[harzfeld]

If I am in middle of north sea with no lands nearby as doesnt have the depth I like to go, I avoid DDs as much as possible or fire a TIII G7e if its a lone DD heading just straight with unaware that Im nearby, then leave the area after just in case more DDs show up, but still submerge cuz of planes.

I havent tried NYGM before, but I am using GW. I like to use land or islands as tactics against DDs if I am nearby. 1. before I enter the area or plan to sink stationary ships at ports, I attempted at getting DDs attenions that are patroling the area by being other side of the land or island as firing deck gun or have other ship or plane to spot me, they rushed straight to me and got themselves stucked ashore on land. 2. if I am being detected, I get to be very close to the land as possible, most times DDs get stuck when they run to DCs on me. 3. I like to camp very close to land where bottlenecks are for ships or conveys passing by also DDs usually passing by, but they cant detect me better than me being away from land due to waves crashing sounds. Land is your friend.

[JSalinger]

I'm just curious, why didn't you just put a torpedo down his throat? Or aft ninety him? Granted he's only 950 tons but deep-sixing him would take care of the problem and make it a bit easier to continue biting off merchants.

[its a viic]

Make sure your gramophone is off!:rotfl:

[Immelman]

I will give you a very good piece of advice even if it doesn't answer your question. What ever you do, do not save and reload while being DCed. I had a VW class DC me for 4 hours to the point he ran out. I had to leave the house so I saved and quit. Came back loaded the game he had a fresh set of Wasserbombs to blast me with another 4 hours under and I am starting to run out of O2. So I had to waste a torp to take him down.

[Gammel]

Wow!

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9089/awesome1r3jm.jpg


I should visit general forum more often...

@Immacolata:
Here are my current sound settings for sim.cfg, used together with a stock AIsensors.dat file...

[Hydrophone]
Detection time=0.75 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.03 ;(0..1)
Height factor=0 ;[m]
Waves factor=1.0 ;[>=0]
Speed factor=18 ;[kt]
Noise factor=0.85 ;[>=0]

[Sonar]
Detection time=20 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.03 ;(0..1)
Waves factor=0.5 ;[>=0]
Speed factor=20 ;[kt]
Enemy surface factor=200 ;[m2]
Lose time=20 ;[s]

I´m using CB´s modified DD´s (AiFight2 Mod, only sim and sns files) as well and have very funny results with that setup... Silent running is essential here!!

Haven´t changed speed factor so far, cause of not knowing it´s use untill now; lol

Things i´ll try next:

- Lowering the speedfactor for hydrophones
- decreasing the Lose time for Sonar

Game is still to hard for me, guess i suck as as a sub skipper...


edit: the upper part of my sim file:

[Mech]
Waves amplitude=0.5 ;[0,1]
Waves attenuation=0.03 ;>=0

[AI Cannons]
Max error angle=3 ;[deg]
Max fire range=25000 ;[m]
Max fire wait=12 ;[s]

[AI AA guns]
Max error angle=5 ;[deg]
Max fire range=4000 ;[m]
Max fire wait=7 ;[s]

[AI detection]
Lost contact time=30 ;[min]

[Visual]
Detection time=0.5 ;[s] min detection time.
Sensitivity=0.01 ;(0..1) at (sensitivity * max range) we have a double detection time.
Fog factor=0.3 ;[>=0]
Light factor=1.0 ;[>=0]
Waves factor=1.0 ;[>=0]
Enemy surface factor=400 ;[m2]
Enemy speed factor=15 ;[kt]

[Gammel]

works very well.
The constant red stealth meter is gone when a DD is using active sonar...

[Hydrophone]
Detection time=0.75 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.03 ;(0..1)
Height factor=0 ;[m]
Waves factor=1.0 ;[>=0]
Speed factor=13 ;[kt]
Noise factor=0.85 ;[>=0]

[Sonar]
Detection time=20 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.03 ;(0..1)
Waves factor=0.5 ;[>=0]
Speed factor=20 ;[kt]
Enemy surface factor=200 ;[m2]
Lose time=2 ;[s]

[U-Bones]

works very well.
The constant red stealth meter is gone when a DD is using active sonar...

[Hydrophone]
Detection time=0.75 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.03 ;(0..1)
Height factor=0 ;[m]
Waves factor=1.0 ;[>=0]
Speed factor=13 ;[kt]
Noise factor=0.85 ;[>=0]

[Sonar]
Detection time=20 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.03 ;(0..1)
Waves factor=0.5 ;[>=0]
Speed factor=20 ;[kt]
Enemy surface factor=200 ;[m2]
Lose time=2 ;[s]
I have been tweaking these tying to tone down the sensors in NYGM 2. I find some of the threads about tactics somewhat unbelievable, and my experiences totally different in some cases. Maybe I simply suck too.

They can hear you within 1km if you are going 2kt and they are not showing you their 5-6-7. Period. At 1kt you can not cover enough ground or turn fast enough to keep either end pointed at them. nor can you get far enough away to break contact. From where I sit, you have to A. Sink them or B. Something else. I have yet to figure out what B is.

You can turn 360 in about 20 minutes, and cover 1k in about 40 minutes, while they can do both in about 40 seconds. You can not succeed at your immediate task of keeping two opposed 20 degree arcs pointed at them and you can not prevent them from succeeding at pointing their contigious 220 degree arc at you. This is in a game where you are trying to create and maintain distance. They have time, you have a timer. And you are outgunned about 100 to 1. LOL.

Seriously, unless the AI crew is set to 0 skill and a storm comes up, 1 DD and anything else is tough to get away from, in any depth. I am tinkering away at it simply because I am tired of resorting to sinking them. I used to play with lost contact time at 40 all the time, now I feel lucky if I can get 5 minutes without flashing red, playing at 15 min.

Unfortunately, I am finding the hydrophone speed factor to be somewhat of a light switch - they either have fully capable bat ears or are stone deaf depending on their speed. Currently using mostly detection time...

[Hydrophone]
Detection time=5 ;[s] was 0.75 in nygm2
Sensitivity=0.04 ;(0..1)
Height factor=0 ;[m]
Waves factor=1.0 ;[>=0]
Speed factor=16 ;[kt] was 18
Noise factor=0.25 ;[>=0]

This seems to create a bit of uncertainty on their part after contact, but is a litte too far in the subs favor IMO - they miss initial contact too often. I guess I will have to muddle about with some of the other factors.

[Gammel]

Greetings U-Bones!

For me the "i´ll be death soon situation" always happens when they´re going active.
2 of those pingers and i´m doomed for sure.

With losetime set to 2 sec i´m much more happy.

You´re right with the speed factor, guess i´ll go back to 15 or 16 like you.
But somewhere i´ve read passive sonar in ww2 was useless when moving more than 12 kts, so maybe it´s just what is was like...

I´ll do further tweaking ´till i found a setup that fits my personal needs and just for the fun of doing it...:D



Don´t know it was noticable that hard in vanilla game, but i have now a huge difference in running 3 knots with and without silent running.
I like that, and i really hate to clicking the boat to 1 knot.
The worst thing here is the chief telling me (in german) "Actual speed=0 knots)
Not an option for me, pressing z is much more satisfying.
Chief:"Aye sir, silent running"
much much better

[U-Bones]

Greetings U-Bones!

For me the "i´ll be death soon situation" always happens when they´re going active.
2 of those pingers and i´m doomed for sure.

With losetime set to 2 sec i´m much more happy.

You´re right with the speed factor, guess i´ll go back to 15 or 16 like you.
But somewhere i´ve read passive sonar in ww2 was useless when moving more than 12 kts, so maybe it´s just what is was like...

I´ll do further tweaking ´till i found a setup that fits my personal needs and just for the fun of doing it...:D



Don´t know it was noticable that hard in vanilla game, but i have now a huge difference in running 3 knots with and without silent running.
I like that, and i really hate to clicking the boat to 1 knot.
The worst thing here is the chief telling me (in german) "Actual speed=0 knots)
Not an option for me, pressing z is much more satisfying.
Chief:"Aye sir, silent running"
much much better

Aye I have ahead slow set to .15 about 1.5 kt submerged - mucho better

Agree 12kt should be too noisy for them to easily hear us, but at speed factor +1 they just start chuggin on by and never wanna play ;) It sucks to have to wave your periscope at them in 505 :-?

I havn't really started playing with sonar - passive is killing me well enough lol.

[Hylander_1314]

What would be nice to have, is when you're in shallower water, ie: 120 meters, and you're running close to the sea floor, is have the ASDISK pinging lose you as a contact, as the ping also bounces off the sea floor masking your whereabouts. Granted you'll have to stay within 1 or 2 meters of the bottom. It happens with my fish finder which is more accurate than the detection equiptment of WWII. If the school of fish changes depth, and gets close to the bottom of the river or lake, I'll lose part of it, or sometimes all of it from the backround noise created. Granted a school of fish is nowhere near the size of our boats, but the effect would be similar with the primitive gear used then. At least make it harder for them to get a location on us in those circumstances.

[theluckyone17]

I've noticed that I can get away fairly easily from early war convoy escorts as long as I'm in deep water, using the tactics described above. Dive deep (100-150m), go to silent running and 2 or 1 knots, and travel away from the escorts (keeping your profile small). I've also found it handy to make sure there's some distance between you and the escorts, and travel at 1/3 or standard at periscope for a length of time (I usually keep at p-depth until I'm on the fringe of the convoy). From a sim point of view, I don't know if the escorts are confusing my noise with the convoy's, but it's seemed to work so far. They'll end up DC'ing a spot several hundred to thousands of meters away.

I've also tried it in shallow water (40-60m), without much success. I managed to avoid his DC's alright, but he kept detecting me every time he'd come around after his run. ASDIC would start up, and he painted me like a deer in the headlights. I ended up fooling around with time compression so he'd leave, rather than be stuck at the computer for several hours at 1x TC.

The weather in most of the accounts above was around 6-10 m/s winds, decent visibility (fog=light, no precip., etc.).

On the other hand, I had the opposite situation last night. Time was midnight, weather was 15 m/s winds & clear skies. I had spent what seemed like weeks in rotten weather with no visibility (15 m/s winds, heavy precip, heavy fog), so I had nothing but 2,000 tons on my kill list. Then I come across a Class C destroy, patrolling above Loch Ewe.

Remember, 15 m/s winds and midnight. I was abeam of him (AOB 90 Port), took a couple plottings, and fired off a fish. I cheated a bit, and used the external camera to watch the torpedo pass a few meters off his stern. Fired off a second, passed in front of him by just a hair. :damn:

At that point, I got frustrated. He hadn't noticed me, so I figured I'd fire up the engines, start taking depth readings, whatever... anything to get him to come around so I could place a torp in his teeth.

Nothing worked. Finally, I got irritated enough to pull in about 800m behind him and follow him. Fired a magnetic torp off (missed), fired an impact and hit him in the stern. Got some sort of secondary explosions... and he turned on his searchlight. Pointed straight forward. No course change (does the sim track damage to AI steering gear?). He just kept motoring along until he took in enough water to bring his stern under the waves, then pitched to starboard until he capsized. Not a shot fired, nothing except his searchlight pointed forward after the torpedo hit.

Worst part is, once I ID'd him, I told myself that I was going to have to apologize to the crew for hunting a Class C (and probably getting myself sunk in the process). :nope: