Bit of Fun with hull integrity..

[CB..]

appologies if this has allready been covered--BUT..

being a fairly casual player..and yet in order to increase the difficulty slightly (and importantly save some time) i reduced all the subs crush depths to 100 metres (using TT tweaks tools in the various sub files:up: )
this means i dont have interminable rises to scope depth when im playing with limited time (and or patience)

this means allso that as soon as i go below 100 metres i start to incur damage to the hull integrity--
i used the crash speed ( in the zon file for each sub)
to reduce greatly the speed at which the damage occurs--

which pans out that i can go right down to 260 metres and stay there for some time and come back up to scope depth having only incurred 2% hull damage--so i'm still running at 98% hull integrity

makes life interesting

occurs to me that using a program such as SH3 Commander you could randomly swop in a subs ZON file etc with differing crush depths and crash speeds---and then a test dive would actually be a test dive...

any huw this is a fun way (for me anyhuw) to use hull integrity--and makes going deep somewhat interesting especailly if i have to repeatedly go very deep in seperate evasive situations over a patrol--means by the third or fourth situation im down to 92% or worse--making it all really quite tense..

[JScones]

occurs to me that using a program such as SH3 Commander you could randomly swop in a subs ZON file etc with differing crush depths and crash speeds---and then a test dive would actually be a test dive...
Yup. Crush depths are randomised by default in SH3Cmdr R2.5 and SH3Cmdr R2.6 will include, as part of Hemisent's Malfunction mod, randomised crash depths (dunno about crash speeds).

And you are 100% right - the experience is AWESOME!

Finally, a test dive will be more than just going through the motions, it will be a necessity!

[CB..]

:up: good stuf!!
it's worth looking at the crash speeds (if H' hasn't allready got it covered) as it's this that makes it so flexible--
my Hull actually starts to "crush" the moment i go below 100 metres (which is rediculous on paper i know)- but because ive reduced the crush speed to 0.002 --it takes a very long time for the damage to accumalate- i normally like to stay fairly shallow but wanted the option to go deep if things got too sticky--but i wanted some penalty for going deep-to prevent me from just doing that as default (purely as a gameplay thing)

suddenly occured to me this might actually be more realistic than i had at first thought...as the boat might get "tired" metal fatigue etc etc from being compressed and released constantly as it changed depth--and this actually does the same thing--

it's very flexible stuff combining crush depth with crash speed (should really have been called crush speed?:hmm: there is a crash depth as well but i have left this at 150 metres..might reduce it to 100 metres and see how that affects things--)

there i was at 260 metres watching the hull integrity tick very slowy down over around ten minutes--wondering how long i could risk it--virtual beads of sweat all round:up:

[Grey Legion]

So let me understand this, the depth at which any sub can maintain or venture to in SH3 is random !?!

yet they post the depth specs for each sub in the back of the manual ??

I am confused :doh:

Can you put this into baby talk so I may be able to grasp it ?? also I am at work and have nothing to reference. I would like to add some realistic testing to my subs as I head out on my patrols.

Thanks

[CB..]

So let me understand this, the depth at which any sub can maintain or venture to in SH3 is random !?!

yet they post the depth specs for each sub in the back of the manual ??

I am confused :doh:

Can you put this into baby talk so I may be able to grasp it ?? also I am at work and have nothing to reference. I would like to add some realistic testing to my subs as I head out on my patrols.

Thanksdo you mean little old me??
just in case i'll have a go at it--

if you have TT's mini tweaker and SH3 inspector program--

first open the subs section with the inspector prgram..

edit the crush depth to 100 metres

save (no need to use the random option at this point)

then open the mini twealer and load the sub ZON tweak file

change the crash depth to 150

(if it allready isn't set at approx 150 ,not sure if i edited this some time ago so just to be sure)

edit the crash speed to 0.002
save and that's AFAIK it..


the hull will start getting damage once you go below 100 metres at a very slow rate--
so slow in fact that it doesn't really limit you normal ability to go deep--it just extracts a small price for it--

this isn't EXACTLY randomised as it stands--BUT every one percent lost as a result of going deep during a patrol will effect your diving capacity the next time you go deep-
-this is with a healthy un combat damaged boat of course-

i kinda prefer this way as opposed to the randomised at start up method because it makes it desirable to make many test dives during a patrol--and each one will risk stressing the boat further--which has to be realistic in some sense of the word !!
kinda puts an added element of tension to it all--

if you were asking JS' then ignore what i just said!!:yep:

[Sailor Steve]

In answer to the first question:

So let me understand this, the depth at which any sub can maintain or venture to in SH3 is random !?!

yet they post the depth specs for each sub in the back of the manual ??

I am confused :doh:

No, the crush depths are set. As CB described, it is possible to reset them to any depth you desire. Timetraveller created a Crush Depth Randomizer, which let you set the depth and then (only if you wanted) set it to randomize the depth plus or minus anywhere from 5 to 20 meters, so you wouldn't know what the actual crush depth was.

What JScones has done is include this function in the latest version of SH3 Commander, so you only have a ballpark idea of what the crush depth of your boat is until you actually test it.

[CB..]

:oops: forgot to mention the setting in the data/submarine/type___ folder

in the sub.cfg

[Properties]
PeriscopeDepth=12;meters
SnorkelDepth=10;meters
CrashDepth=70;meters
MaxDepth=400;meters
SurfaceDepth=8.8;meters

the maxdepth here --> i think <-- really does mean maxdepth-- ie one metre below that and boom---so increase this a little so you can allow space for a decent amount of variation in critical depth---once the flooding and damage starts feeding on it self and you start sinking the boat will be killed by flooding anyway--

once you have sorted all that lot out your max depth is down to the hull integrity--which is a good reason to have the hull integrity -shall we say- a little more "fluid"
there is a point at which the damage will start accumalating at a much faster rate as each percentage of damage raises the max depth out side your hulls level of tolerance -which in turn increases the damage rate even more- there by creating a feedback loop which may well see you sunk before you can get the boat back up--especailly if flooding has begun

and i think that you are more vunerable to DC damage when deep with this way- because your allready below the "crush" depth of the hull, even when at "normal" depths around 150 metres..i don't know for sure tho--but it follows thru--
back on the

[Properties]
PeriscopeDepth=12;meters
SnorkelDepth=10;meters
CrashDepth=70;meters
MaxDepth=400;meters
SurfaceDepth=8.8;meters

settings

having an increased maxdepth entry even say to 600 metres will negate a little the rather poor "your dead" screen you get when sunk--as by the time your down at around 400 metres or more you allready know your dead--so the death screen doesn't interrupt your attempt to save the boat as normal --it just states what you allready know--which is far less annoying--once hull integrity hits zero the game gives you the death screen anyway (AFAIK) so it feels slightly less gamey when you see it--

[U-Bones]

This is real interesting to me CB, thanks for sharing. I definately think that the "soft" crush, and its snowballing nature, is quite realistic in effect.

I just wish I could figure out why I sometimes get dropped to 10% HI with relatively little component damage at shallow depths, and others where I take incredible beating at depth and red everywhere, but HI is still 90%+...

[CB..]

This is real interesting to me CB, thanks for sharing. I definately think that the "soft" crush, and its snowballing nature, is quite realistic in effect.

I just wish I could figure out why I sometimes get dropped to 10% HI with relatively little component damage at shallow depths, and others where I take incredible beating at depth and red everywhere, but HI is still 90%+...

Cheers :up: it really makes a difference -it's a subtle change but in effect gives you some choices and decisions about depth that normally you don't tend to worry about --
only thing i can think of with the HI at shallow depth and large amounts of damage is that a DC or bomb has exploded whilst actually touching the hull it self-- whadd ya reckon?

[Grey Legion]

CB..

I was asking you and thank you for clearing it up for me, I may try that on my next patrol as I want "test dives" to be part of things to add a bit of "spice" to my game. Also what would be good settings for each class of U-Boat ??

I tend to add details that don't really happen, I just wish radom things could happen to the crew such as illness or a member getting hurt during a "test"

any thoughts on that ??

[CB..]

CB..

I was asking you and thank you for clearing it up for me, I may try that on my next patrol as I want "test dives" to be part of things to add a bit of "spice" to my game. Also what would be good settings for each class of U-Boat ??

I tend to add details that don't really happen, I just wish radom things could happen to the crew such as illness or a member getting hurt during a "test"

any thoughts on that ??

Cheers Grey ' :up:

i've just set them all more or less the same ..the way it works is fairly flexible anyway so it's reasonable i think...im the same as you.. anything just to lift the game a little bit adding extra tension and enjoyment..
i'm still experimenting with similar things for the crew --im after a few more injurys---.....be interesting if from time to time one of the watch crew came down with a cold or got injured in rougth weather...mainly because i want the medic qulaification to be a more serious choice for the crew..as important as the torp qualification in fact!...not had a huge amount of luck so far i must admit

i allso prefer to give out promotions instead of medals as this is more fun frankly lol!!

maybe trying this for the ordinary seaman


basic.cfg

[CREW_0] ;SEAMAN
MoraleMin=0.30
MoraleMax=0.60
MoraleStep=0.05
FatigueMin=0
FatigueMax=0.5
FatigueStep=0.2
CoefMorale=0.4
CoefFatigue=0.2
QualEffect=1
Hp=10
wounded=-0.2
Dead=-20.5
SunkShips=10
TorpedoHit=0.05
Experience=0


Hp=10
wounded=9.9
Dead=-20.5
SunkShips=10
TorpedoHit=0.05
Experience=0

might have one or two wounded from time to time dunno havent tried this as yet i must admit--

[Grey Legion]

CB..

I was asking you and thank you for clearing it up for me, I may try that on my next patrol as I want "test dives" to be part of things to add a bit of "spice" to my game. Also what would be good settings for each class of U-Boat ??

I tend to add details that don't really happen, I just wish radom things could happen to the crew such as illness or a member getting hurt during a "test"

any thoughts on that ??

Cheers Grey ' :up:

i've just set them all more or less the same ..the way it works is fairly flexible anyway so it's reasonable i think...im the same as you.. anything just to lift the game a little bit adding extra tension and enjoyment..
i'm still experimenting with similar things for the crew --im after a few more injurys---.....be interesting if from time to time one of the watch crew came down with a cold or got injured in rougth weather...mainly because i want the medic qulaification to be a more serious choice for the crew..as important as the torp qualification in fact!...not had a huge amount of luck so far i must admit

i allso prefer to give out promotions instead of medals as this is more fun frankly lol!!

maybe trying this for the ordinary seaman


basic.cfg

[CREW_0] ;SEAMAN
MoraleMin=0.30
MoraleMax=0.60
MoraleStep=0.05
FatigueMin=0
FatigueMax=0.5
FatigueStep=0.2
CoefMorale=0.4
CoefFatigue=0.2
QualEffect=1
Hp=10
wounded=-0.2
Dead=-20.5
SunkShips=10
TorpedoHit=0.05
Experience=0


Hp=10
wounded=9.9
Dead=-20.5
SunkShips=10
TorpedoHit=0.05
Experience=0

might have one or two wounded from time to time dunno havent tried this as yet i must admit--

Ok, I'll edit that file tonight and test it out, is there a way that it can tie into the morale factor, the less morale the more likely to get hurt or sick or even die, I am sure sometime during 1939-1945 a seaman must have died from something other than a attack.

Thoughts ??

[HEMISENT]

:up: good stuf!!
it's worth looking at the crash speeds (if H' hasn't allready got it covered) as it's this that makes it so flexible--
my Hull actually starts to "crush" the moment i go below 100 metres (which is rediculous on paper i know)- but because ive reduced the crush speed to 0.002 --it takes a very long time for the damage to accumalate- i normally like to stay fairly shallow but wanted the option to go deep if things got too sticky--but i wanted some penalty for going deep-to prevent me from just doing that as default (purely as a gameplay thing)

suddenly occured to me this might actually be more realistic than i had at first thought...as the boat might get "tired" metal fatigue etc etc from being compressed and released constantly as it changed depth--and this actually does the same thing--

it's very flexible stuff combining crush depth with crash speed (should really have been called crush speed?:hmm: there is a crash depth as well but i have left this at 150 metres..might reduce it to 100 metres and see how that affects things--)

there i was at 260 metres watching the hull integrity tick very slowy down over around ten minutes--wondering how long i could risk it--virtual beads of sweat all round:up:

CB. Already in the works. I've been playing around with crash speed too and the way I figure it I'm going to randomize the setting to sustain longer times for early in the war but gradually speed it up as the years go by indicating stress/metal fatigue. Also, I'll throw a couple files in for relatively quick hull damage(a very stressed hull) and later war slow hull damage(newer boat). Bottom line is it'll be another very subtle touch that most players won't ever realize is there until they need it. After the initial release of Commander 2.6 comes out and all the dust settles this will be in Sabotage/Malfunctions 2.0 a simple copy/paste addition.
Unlike you, I live at depths below 150-200m so with crash speed modifications it really gets tense.

Now if I could only find a way to disable a torpedo tube or two.

Cheers!

[Grey Legion]

Random events will sure help the "boring" times, also TC will be used with caution.

I am testing out the seaman mod using a edited basic.cfg file I'll play a mission or two to see if anything happens to the crew, as it stands I only changed the valus for seaman, that brings up one question in the basic.cfg file they have seaman and activeseaman what is the difference are that active ones the ones onboard ?? onlt time and testing will tell ??

Will follow up with my results.

[CB..]

CB. Already in the works. I've been playing around with crash speed too and the way I figure it I'm going to randomize the setting to sustain longer times for early in the war but gradually speed it up as the years go by indicating stress/metal fatigue. Also, I'll throw a couple files in for relatively quick hull damage(a very stressed hull) and later war slow hull damage(newer boat). Bottom line is it'll be another very subtle touch that most players won't ever realize is there until they need it. After the initial release of Commander 2.6 comes out and all the dust settles this will be in Sabotage/Malfunctions 2.0 a simple copy/paste addition.
Unlike you, I live at depths below 150-200m so with crash speed modifications it really gets tense.

Now if I could only find a way to disable a torpedo tube or two.

Cheers!

:up: nice one! H'.. have you sussed out what the crash depth setting is for in the same file? that's got to be related as a trigger for something?



///////

Grey Legion..hope it helps--i dunno if there's a way to tie the injury etc to the morale --it works the other way round mind...any injury or death to a crew member hits the morale of the rest of the crew very hard--another good reason for having more than one medic on board:cool:

[Grey Legion]

CB..

Testing it as we speak, nothing to report yet.

Would you mind taking another look at the basic.cfg file and see what the difference is between seaman and active seaman ??

I may have changed nothing in my first attempt :(
may have to set it up like the boat got a hit but took no damage yet a crew member is now injured ??
Testing continues...

[Grey Legion]

AH HA !!!

One little problem, when editing the basic.cfg file, then loading the game via SH3 Commander it overwrites any changes made to the basic.cfg file. :damn:
No wonder I did not have any results :doh:

gonna test it with out starting the game via SH3 Commander and re-test it

[JScones]

AH HA !!!

One little problem, when editing the basic.cfg file, then loading the game via SH3 Commander it overwrites any changes made to the basic.cfg file. :damn:
No wonder I did not have any results :doh:

gonna test it with out starting the game via SH3 Commander and re-test it
Actually, not correct. The only changes SH3Cmdr makes to Basic.cfg are those outlined in "Basic changes.cfg", those in "U-boat availability.cfg" (and only if you have the "Correct U-boat availability dates" option selected), and any fatigue setting that you have selected via the options. SH3Cmdr does not replace any file in SH3.

Q: Did you rollback SH3Cmdr BEFORE making changes to Basic.cfg? If not, that is your problem. ALWAYS rollback SH3Cmdr before making changes to any SH3 file.

As SH3Cmdr doesn't actually touch the values that you want to change, I would suggest that the above is your problem.

[Grey Legion]

AH HA !!!

One little problem, when editing the basic.cfg file, then loading the game via SH3 Commander it overwrites any changes made to the basic.cfg file. :damn:
No wonder I did not have any results :doh:

gonna test it with out starting the game via SH3 Commander and re-test it
Actually, not correct. The only changes SH3Cmdr makes to Basic.cfg are those outlined in "Basic changes.cfg", those in "U-boat availability.cfg" (and only if you have the "Correct U-boat availability dates" option selected), and any fatigue setting that you have selected via the options. SH3Cmdr does not replace any file in SH3.

Q: Did you rollback SH3Cmdr BEFORE making changes to Basic.cfg? If not, that is your problem. ALWAYS rollback SH3Cmdr before making changes to any SH3 file.

As SH3Cmdr doesn't actually touch the values that you want to change, I would suggest that the above is your problem.

Oh my you are 100% correct :yep:

But I will stand that it was not meant in any way to offend you or your fine software :up:

Just me being over excited and a complet moron when it comes to anything PC :doh:
Did what you said and it works 100%, well at least the no change part, as for the value change it did nothing during my tests. :damn:

Need to hit the drawing board some more :know:

Once again please forgive my hastiness to post my untested findings in reagrds to your software.

:smug:

[JScones]

No dramas. :up:

What values exactly are you wanting to change?

[Grey Legion]

As for values I have no idea's but here is what i want to obtain.

Non-warfare crew injuries..

to sum it all all up I want the crew to get injured while out at sea but not only in combat. I want to try to "fake" crew illness and/or accidents..

Don't know if it can be done, but if it could I feel it would add a bunch to the game !!

Since I don't know anything about programming I need help, I just have the idea and want others to run with it that have more experience than I.

Thoughts ??


Also would love a complete list ( in baby talk ) of value changes for the hull integrety

Thanks !!

[johan_d]

appologies if this has allready been covered--BUT..

being a fairly casual player..and yet in order to increase the difficulty slightly (and importantly save some time) i reduced all the subs crush depths to 100 metres (using TT tweaks tools in the various sub files:up: )
this means i dont have interminable rises to scope depth when im playing with limited time (and or patience)

this means allso that as soon as i go below 100 metres i start to incur damage to the hull integrity--
i used the crash speed ( in the zon file for each sub)
to reduce greatly the speed at which the damage occurs--

which pans out that i can go right down to 260 metres and stay there for some time and come back up to scope depth having only incurred 2% hull damage--so i'm still running at 98% hull integrity

makes life interesting

occurs to me that using a program such as SH3 Commander you could randomly swop in a subs ZON file etc with differing crush depths and crash speeds---and then a test dive would actually be a test dive...

any huw this is a fun way (for me anyhuw) to use hull integrity--and makes going deep somewhat interesting especailly if i have to repeatedly go very deep in seperate evasive situations over a patrol--means by the third or fourth situation im down to 92% or worse--making it all really quite tense..
A very interresting find here..

My uneducated thoughts on this are, that it will be nice to be able to sink to the bottom, like in Das Boot, and with an delayed repair mod, and with O2 decay, it will be very fearsome times for the armchair Kaleun.

I dont know for real, but I have the feeling that the 02 decay is a little too slow. Any change to change this?

Any updated on this?

Also, a bit more Das Boot expirience would be nice, and bad for the hearth. I like to hear more active pinging, and wasserbomben.. how about that?