UbiSoft should make a modern naval sim...

[LoBlo]

Okiedokie...

...So what modern naval combat sims are out there for gamers to play. DW is obviously there and Harpoon 3 has been available for a while (are their any other I'm missing?) However has either of these two games really given the player what they really crave, a game with it all... one with the great graphics, the great platforms, physics and a brillant AI that can surprise the player? DW has made some groundbreaking gameplay and a great sonar model and Harpoon is a very deep game, but many would say that they have not achieved the quality possible in todays gaming capabilities.

That being the case, it seems like its going to take the initiatvie of one of the larger and more experienced game developers to produce the modern naval combat sim that we all crave. UbiSoft has already made a great WWII naval game in SHIII, perhaps it would be the best canidate for producing a game on SHIII caliber, but with modern weapons and platforms. I'ld love to see a modern navy sim with SHII graphics and physics. All it would need is to take the graphics and physics it has created for SHIII, employ a more sophificated sonar and radar model, and create modern platforms and weapons for us to play and it could quiet possibly make one a modern navy sim that everyone has dreamed about.

So... I've put a post on the UbiSoft forums petitioning for them to create a SHIII-ish game but with modern naval units, tatics, and weapons. If you feel the same stop by and post your support.

UbiSoft Forum Thread (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/857101043/m/1211038454)

lb

[Skybird]

If you want a complex and high-realism naval sim-game that offers wet Unreal-action with chess-strategy-AI and DW-complexity, combined with Total War-presentation and the multitude of units from SCX and Harpoon - then Ubisoft and other large companies probably are the last ones you want to ask. And you probably ask for too much at the same time anyway.

[LoBlo]

Nope, I'm asking for SHIII with modern units and weapons and a good physics model.:yep: Actually it would probably be less complex and hard to produce than a good flight simulator.

Shoot for the stars and you could hit the moon.

[Sea Demon]

Nope, I'm asking for SHIII with modern units and weapons and a good physics model.:yep: Actually it would probably be less complex and hard to produce than a good flight simulator.

Shoot for the stars and you could hit the moon.

I agree. But if you're looking for a modern naval sim, DW is totally incredible and available. When you upgrade it with LWAMI, it gets even better.

[Enigma]

DW is alot of things, and I enjoy it. but incredible aint one of them....:doh:

[Sea Demon]

DW is alot of things, and I enjoy it. but incredible aint one of them....:doh:

Well we can debate the adjectives describing DW all day long. But I don't know of any other sim that offers the ability to simulate naval platforms above, on, or below the surface in one sim. Other sims/games have great eye-candy, but don't pack in as much in one sim as DW does. Some of us believe that that earns it an "Incredible" label. :yep:

[LoBlo]

Yes, I'm currently playing DW. Its a great game. SCS has really pushed the genre:up: . However, so much of the game seems a bit amateurish, as if they lack the game programming experience to achieve higher quality programming. Like the way they've stuggled with the physics model, and the lack of some basic AI behaviors. The graphics models range from outstanding models to substandard modeling in the same game. Its currently the best modern navy sim out there today, no doubt, and possibly the best navy sim ever made...but there are numerous things that could be done better. Maybe a more experienced game developer with a proven track record can push the genere to the next level. :yep: UbiSoft is one of them with a proven track-record, other developers would probably be capable as well.

[Enigma]

Yes, as I said, I do enjoy the game. I just think the room for improvement is vaaaast.

[Kurushio]

After a while...the graphics really started to make the game "old". I'm finding it harder and harder to play...to be honest. Maybe I'm just vain. :oops: But are those graphics the best SCS could come up with? For heaven's sake!

[kiwi_2005]

Yeah the graphics are crap in DW, but the gameplay is one of the best for a modern subsim. Maybe they did for many reasons but having not to much eye candy ables ppl with low spec PC's to play the game

[Sea Demon]

Maybe a more experienced game developer with a proven track record can push the genere to the next level. :yep: UbiSoft is one of them with a proven track-record, other developers would probably be capable as well.

Sonalysts is not primarily a PC game maker. Go to their website and see all the stuff they do. They don't just do government work either. The game makers from UBIsoft don't do 10% of what Sonalysts accomplishes. And yet Sonalysts produces a game that is by far the best modern naval sim out there. They are darn good at what they do and do indeed have a proven track record with 4 excellent games and community support. I can't say I'm too impressed with UBIsoft's overall support for their games. Nor can I say they are as responsive as Sonalysts have been with their customers.

Yes, SH3 is incredible from many aspects. I really enjoyed playing it. But still, DW is the mainstay on my hard-drive. While SH3 gives you a sense of being a U-Boat captain in WW2 in a very immersive way, DW lets you play modern naval warfare from air units, a surface unit, and submarine units. From both Red and Blue sides. While SH3 is pretty and incredibly immersive, it doesn't pack in as much as DW IMHO. Both are very excellent games though.

I just think the room for improvement is vaaaast.

OK. But I tend to look at it as potential.

Yeah the graphics are crap in DW

I actually think the graphics are pretty good considering that most of the effort is in the sensor modelling and gameplay areas. Come on Kiwi. Aren't you being overly harsh by saying the graphics are crap?

Speaking of that, how come we didn't hear all this belly-aching over graphics while we were all eagerly anticipating DW's release? There were screenshots available you know. Don't remember any complaining over the graphics back then. :hmm:

Edited to add: Don't you SH3 people come after me or turn this thread into DW vs. SH3. :) I'm not knocking your game. I still recommend everyone go out and buy SH3 too. And while DW is my choice, SH3 gave me alot of good times. Both are excellent in their own rights. :up:

[Smaragdadler]

:arrgh!::arrgh!::arrgh!::arrgh!:

DW Graphics are superb!!! If you REALY play DW, you know that you look for 98% of time at the STATION DISPLAYS. So, what is WRONG with that? Ever played HARPOON? No?
So better shut up, because you don't know - what #hardcore# is! :p

People who cry about DW-graphics - are just kids, who know only anime-cartoons. They go for the first time in a brothel and complain about the 'BAD VISION'! :D

:arrgh!::arrgh!::arrgh!::arrgh!:

Sincerely
LLort Troll

[sonar732]

I agree with the concensious that the graphics of DW aren't suppose to be that great. Think about it...Harpoon had little icons on a 2d screen...wait, forgot about the black and white photos. The bread and butter of DW are stations and gameplay people, not to make the graphics look good. Shoot, I was happy with how they gave better explosion graphics compaired to SC.

If you complain about graphics issues, go play Half-Life or somethin'. :nope:

[joea]

Tried the Demo of DW, found it excellent but very involved...manual tdc is about enough for me when I'm not working or studying. :lol: Really the graphics are not bad, the whole point I agree with some here is to model modern sensors and tactics which is rather complex and a whole lot different from WWII. Physics in terms of sea, waves, boat and ship movement (well the aircraft in DW are ummm rather simple, at least the chopper was...first time I flew with a mouse) I can't say except I doubt SHIII is perfect either.

Since SHIII deals with history, immersion and mood are important...DW is based on theory and current stuff so that's another difference. Look at Steel Beasts vs. some of the popular shooters....BF2 for example, you really need a small outfit as Skybird indicated to make a really hardcore sim since the commercial rewards are small. Sad to say but true. WWII has a bit more chance to be both popular and "somewhat" hardcore (SH3 and Il2) just because the tech aspects are simpler and well...no longer secret, (if not always available).

My 2 cents.

[bradclark1]

Yeah the graphics are crap in DW, but the gameplay is one of the best for a modern subsim. Maybe they did for many reasons but having not to much eye candy ables ppl with low spec PC's to play the game

Now really, how many people have that low of system specs nowadays?
The panel graphics are OK but the exterior graphics are utter trash. They should have been brought up to snuff.

[kiwi_2005]

Sea Demon wrote:
I actually think the graphics are pretty good considering that most of the effort is in the sensor modelling and gameplay areas. Come on Kiwi. Aren't you being overly harsh by saying the graphics are crap?


Well no im not :D But i did add the gameplay of DW is one of the best for a modern subsim, thats whats important. I would rather have crap graphics but with superb gameplay than the other way round. But there could of been superb graphics as well for DW, i mean DW is really no different than Sub Command in the graphics department. Im sure they used the same engine to build DW on. Still those that never tried DW dont be put off by my comment, DW is very good gameplay.:yep:

[Seeadler]

Now really, how many people have that low of system specs nowadays?
A typical consumer PC system here in Germany:
- AMD Athlon™ 64 3200+ (2000MHz)
- 1GB Ram
- GeForce 6600GT
- 160 GB HD
- 17'' TFT
price approx. 980€

but most of the casual gamer here have a better system;)

[Kurushio]

The water in DW looks like blue paint. When it's raining in-game it looks like a camel has bukaked on my monitor. The Russian voices sound more like a drunk, homeless guy bumming a lift and the American voices sounds like the voice actor was tied up and told he wouldn't be released until he read a few phrases off a sheet of paper. The chopper handles like a hot-air balloon and the P3 like a bicycle with wings. But overall it's a very good game. :)

[Enigma]

Kurushio....:lol: Im crackin up...

[LoBlo]

Well, looks like Sea Demon has managed to skew the topic toward another "things I don't like about DW" discussion... which is not what I originally intended... way to go.:shifty:

you really need a small outfit as Skybird indicated to make a really hardcore sim since the commercial rewards are small. Sad to say but true. WWII has a bit more chance to be both popular and "somewhat" hardcore (SH3 and Il2) just because the tech aspects are simpler and well...no longer secret,

See, this is where I disagree. I think its fully possible for an established developer to make a aesthetically appealling modern sim, with reasonable simulation accuracy, and have as much success as, say, a good flight simulator or a WWII navy sim. IMHO, there's a bit of a negative feedback loop in effect which has inhibited the genre. Modern navy games have traditionally been unaesthetic so have not captured a desireable fanbase... yet, because they have not developed as strong fanbase, the games produced will continue to be less aesthetic. Somewhat of a viscious cycle at play IMHO.

I don't think there is anything particularly special about the WWII era. In fact, I think SHIII has proven that if the time, and effort, and programming, toward trying to create a more total package, are invested, that it will promote a larger fanbase. Some will disagree, but IMHO, its a matter of investing into the game quality and trying to break the viscious loop.

lb

[Sea Demon]

Well, looks like Sea Demon has managed to skew the topic toward another "things I don't like about DW" discussion... which is not what I originally intended... way to go.:shifty:


I apologize LoBlo. I just really didn't know if you had DW or not. If you didn't, I just wanted to mention that it is available and very well done. That's when people started raggin' on the game's graphics. I just felt the need to defend a game and a company that I think is top notch.

So back on the topic that you intended. Yes, I think a modern naval sim would be great if we could interface with it the same as SH3. I would whole-heartedly welcome that approach if someone did it, and I also believe that it could draw more people to the genre. But I also don't know if UBIsoft or anybody else has looked into this as economically feasible. For whatever reasons, modern naval warfare is known to be a niche market. Perhaps what your thinking here could potentially open that market up.

[Kurushio]

I think the graphics in DW are like that, because graphics or not, the game puts people off because of it's complexity. How many people will willingly learn (that means without being paid) how to use Target Motion Analysis or the sonar station? So I think they knew this...and didn't bother about the graphics. I can see it now....SCS developer saying "nah Bob...don't waste time on the graphics...the old farts who play this game are used to boardgames...". :yep:

[Smaragdadler]

This is one way to look at it.
Here is another:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=91889
(seems there are people who are willingly to learn manual TDC - but then are confronted with some little pimple under the heavy make-up of SH3)

But it was offen said before: DW and SH3 are completly different.
The aim of SH3 is to create for you as best as possible the illusion that you are on an WW2 U-Boot. You can get no better software at this time, if this is it what you want.

The aim of DW is to simulate for you as best as possible the reality of modern ASW. You can get no better software at this time, if this is it what you want.

SH3 is good cinema. DW is a good documentation. SH3 is a good novell, DW is a good Technical book.

So what is wanted is a good synthesis from both. Don't know, if this is possible. :-? Maybe, but I am shure there have to be sacrifices, in one way or the other...