How to escape the Über-AI (NYGM2.0)

[Fangschuss]

Salve

Need some help :oops:

Ok the DD´s are real booldhounds, and this brings the game to an higher level :up:

And make the escotrs to an real enemy. But..

...after 3hours on silent runing,1 knots at 180meters.
Iam not able to escape the NYGM Uber-AI. I become mad :damn:

I need some hint´s buddys :D

[The Noob]

Real Depth Chargings often lastet longer in reality. Just Continue to try to evade.

[CCIP]

3 hours? Keep trying, you may have to keep at it for longer.

What are they getting you with? ASDIC?
If it's ASDIC, then keep trying to always face directly towards or away from them, exposing minimum area to it.

[Ula Jolly]

BREAK THE SURFACE! Deck gun their ugly faceholes! :arrgh!:

[don1reed]

After 12 attacks by DD and 2 attacks by aircraft, just off the Firth of Forth, we in our lil canoe was running out of electricity...D121m, silent running...

...finally, the DD depleted it's wasserbombe but kept on making pass after pass, mostly from our stern...just letting us know, he knew where we were. EDIT: His method was "passive". He did not use ASDIC.

We ascended to 20m, got our vorhaltrectner all set and waited for him to pass on us again. He did. As soon as he passed overhead, we ascended to ASR depth and broached the scope and turned in the same direction he did. We were set up for a 3 shot fan 2.5° spread, Vg 10, Az/Pi, E 700, Lage 90. Scored three hits! Nr.1 Dud, Nr.2 MOT, Nr.3 Abaft stern stack on C Class. Sank in 3 min. after fwd magazine went.

[Cpt.Thorne]

#hrs is still considerably good time have enjoyed the fun for 5hrs with NYGM1.03 but this 2.0 is even better...I love it!

Wabos I take but if they have hedgehogs I am sweating...even though I am happy to have learned they are not totally über in NYGM2 anymore. And actually trust me you can take good punishment without cheesy vanilla death screen after little flooding. I was able to surface from 150m and save my crew and surrender with completely flooded electric engine compartment that was sealed when realised there as no chance to pump it dry. Run silent run deep...have patience..and pray!:rock::rock::rock:

[Myxale]

Same here from me mate!
Keep goin' on! Go longer, do deeper, go more silent! Use the chaos and loudness of the DC's to to flank ahead and change course or generally just to win some space, and then again silent at 1knot as soon as the bombs stop!
This is intended to break your sub and kill you. If not, then the Tommy's want to torture you!:shifty:

[Fangschuss]

THX Buddys :up:

I will give my best :arrgh!:

[Myxale]

Let us know if you made it!:hmm:

[Fangschuss]

Let us know if you made it!:hmm:
Ok after scarcely 5 hours i escaped mean hunters :yep:

After my first convoy attacked (NYGM), sank a freighter and a light tanker ca. Brt. 13.000t

NYGM Rockz :rock:

..Course westward, against England... Ahoi Kaleu´s :arrgh!:

[Myxale]

:up::rock:

[Salvadoreno]

Ok after scarcely 5 hours i escaped mean hunters :yep:

After my first convoy attacked (NYGM), sank a freighter and a light tanker ca. Brt. 13.000t

NYGM Rockz :rock:

..Course westward, against England... Ahoi Kaleu´s :arrgh!:

Hey Fang, damn ya i probably need some pointers from you!!! I have already lost 2 boats both in maiden patrols. My 3rd patrol in a VIIC in 1941 started off well, medium tanker alone and a transport in convoy sank, finally escaped the AI DDs after about hour and a half of depth charges, and game crashed. Lost all Walter Angrus saved games >:(. So now im on my 4th patrol with an IXC in 1941 trying to survive. Ive never used IXC and im wanting to survive long enough to get to america. So far it ain t happening.

[CCIP]

:rock:

See, I knew you could make it!

I think there is a shock that everyone who starts NYGM 2.0 will experience from the escorts suddenly getting a lot of teeth, but after some practice you'll learn what you need to escape them.

And the first thing is patience!

[Paul Rix]

Hi all, new player here. I have upgraded to NYGM v2 and also am having a very hard time escaping the escorts. I have tried running directly away, sitting on the bottom, Silent Running (which does not help when you are being pinged). Are themal layers modelled ? I don't play the game 5 hours at a time so playing a 5 hour + evasion is not an option for me. I am seriously considering going back to 1.03.

[Der Teddy Bar]

Paul,
Silent running in itself is no longer the Clingon Cloaking Device that it used to be. It now requires you to be more historical and adjust your speed down to about 1+ knots.

I tried the WaW Evasive mission. Picture this, 3 escorts within 300 metres of your u-boat and you on the surface and in only 80 metres depth! uhm, someone could have turned the escorts to at least be facing the other way :o

I have done this mission 3 times and survived 2. In the 2 times I survived 1 time I was extensively damaged before submerging and the other time not.

I had to change my way of thinking from that of trying to immediately hide under the nearest stone to running and evading and then choosing my time to try and hide.

This enabled me to get past the initial attacks and get the escorts spread out a little.

It was by no means easy, and took time and luck.

Most of the time I also only did minimal speed adjustments when depth charged from <1 to about 2+ for less than 20 seconds and often about 10 seconds. Occassionally, in the intial stages I did do some ahead slow and a depth change.

When I was getting pinged in such a way as to believe I was going to get depth charged I made a small course changes and after the attack another, maybe the same way or back to the original course.

I also constantly tried to minimise my surface exposure to the esort I thought might detect me best. Not always practical, and again, pinging does not always mean detection.

Other times when the escort was crossing over me from a 90 degree angle or something simular to that, I would keep the same direction but go to 2 knots and change depth.

I did at times get additional damage and one time had to do emergency repairs and died :rotfl: The other times I got additional damage that I once could live with and once needed some repairs done, but I manged to again get away.

I hope that this helps some.

[Paul Rix]

Thanks for the explanation. I'll give it another try. I had been trying to play out the Scappa Flow mission but so far I have not been able to get close to the harbour because the patroling Destroyers always found me. I'll admit I have been using accelerated time which seems to invite trouble.:doh:

[CCIP]

I can give one piece of advice, and that's that the only speed at which destroyers will never hear you is ~1kt. Higher than that they won't hear you if they're further away - but they will hear you if you get close enough.

On the other hand, if they never hear you they might still ping you or see your periscope if you're careless, so watch out.

[Der Teddy Bar]

Thanks for the explanation. I'll give it another try. I had been trying to play out the Scappa Flow mission but so far I have not been able to get close to the harbour because the patroling Destroyers always found me. I'll admit I have been using accelerated time which seems to invite trouble.:doh:
Paul,
I hope that you never get through the front door of Scap Flow :D

Remember to use the side one and wipe your feet first :rotfl:

[kholdstayr]

Paul,
Silent running in itself is no longer the Clingon Cloaking Device that it used to be. It now requires you to be more historical and adjust your speed down to about 1+ knots.

I tried the WaW Evasive mission. Picture this, 3 escorts within 300 metres of your u-boat and you on the surface and in only 80 metres depth! uhm, someone could have turned the escorts to at least be facing the other way :o

I have done this mission 3 times and survived 2. In the 2 times I survived 1 time I was extensively damaged before submerging and the other time not.

I had to change my way of thinking from that of trying to immediately hide under the nearest stone to running and evading and then choosing my time to try and hide.

This enabled me to get past the initial attacks and get the escorts spread out a little.

It was by no means easy, and took time and luck.

Most of the time I also only did minimal speed adjustments when depth charged from <1 to about 2+ for less than 20 seconds and often about 10 seconds. Occassionally, in the intial stages I did do some ahead slow and a depth change.

When I was getting pinged in such a way as to believe I was going to get depth charged I made a small course changes and after the attack another, maybe the same way or back to the original course.

I also constantly tried to minimise my surface exposure to the esort I thought might detect me best. Not always practical, and again, pinging does not always mean detection.

Other times when the escort was crossing over me from a 90 degree angle or something simular to that, I would keep the same direction but go to 2 knots and change depth.

I did at times get additional damage and one time had to do emergency repairs and died :rotfl: The other times I got additional damage that I once could live with and once needed some repairs done, but I manged to again get away.

I hope that this helps some.

I tried that mission three and I didn't get it. The main problem is that before I crash dive the destroyers hit me and I take some light damage. THe light damage makes my sub sink unless I travel at about 4 knots. This has happened each of the three times I have tried it. So basically I was traveling about about 1 or 2 knots and sinking but trying to evade the destroyers. Every once in awhile I would have to fire up the speed to 4 knots in order to prevent the boat from hitting the bottom. I even tried sitting on the bottom which doesn't work because they don't leave. After three hours of real-time evasion my batteries started to die down because with the damage I took from the destroyers, I needed to actually go to flank speed to get the boat up to the necessary speed in order to prevent it from sinking. The repeated flank speeds I had to run were wearing down the batteries.

[Ducimus]

http://www.dasboot.com/images/look.jpg
Deeper!
But sir!!
yes, Deeper

[Keelbuster]

I still don't see the point in going slow when 3 escorts are ping triangulating you. I can only see the ~1kt thing as being useful on the edge of active asdic, or when approaching a convoy. When escorts know i'm around they ping like crazy. The only way I can get out of through flank bursts, and a lot of running at ahead 1/3. I've yet to be DCed in tW2, but am imagining that it's based on the same principles?

Kb

[Der Teddy Bar]

I still don't see the point in going slow when 3 escorts are ping triangulating you. I can only see the ~1kt thing as being useful on the edge of active asdic, or when approaching a convoy. When escorts know i'm around they ping like crazy. The only way I can get out of through flank bursts, and a lot of running at ahead 1/3. I've yet to be DCed in tW2, but am imagining that it's based on the same principles?

Kb
The pinging does not always mean they 'have' you though.

We used the external view with the u-boat metre (meter) to evalualte the Active Sonar.

There were time that the pinging was full on and the u-boat sensor was red... but the escort did not change course and attack me.

So that means that if you speed up when he had not, or was not targeting you, you may actually be giving your location away.

What I am saying, is that it is now a cat and mouse game of nerves where you need to outwit the AI.

[Der Teddy Bar]

kholdstayr,
The escort facing you is a bit harsh.

I was damaged on 2 of the 3 occassions and one probably cost me.

The other I kept up speed at 4 knots and stopped the flooding and pumped the water out and left the rest of the damage before then slowing to ~1 knot.

While the repairs were happening I kept making evasive moves and changing depth often.

[Keelbuster]

I still don't see the point in going slow when 3 escorts are ping triangulating you. I can only see the ~1kt thing as being useful on the edge of active asdic, or when approaching a convoy. When escorts know i'm around they ping like crazy. The only way I can get out of through flank bursts, and a lot of running at ahead 1/3. I've yet to be DCed in tW2, but am imagining that it's based on the same principles?

Kb The pinging does not always mean they 'have' you though.

We used the external view with the u-boat metre (meter) to evalualte the Active Sonar.

There were time that the pinging was full on and the u-boat sensor was red... but the escort did not change course and attack me.

So that means that if you speed up when he had not, or was not targeting you, you may actually be giving your location away.

What I am saying, is that it is now a cat and mouse game of nerves where you need to outwit the AI.
COOL. Good to know. I will try to use this. On the other hand - in real life I thought that you either go active OR passive, and not both (i.e. active is too loud to pick up ambient sounds). And - in principle, should speed affect active acquisition? I imagine that if you are moving, they have to sample your position a few times to determine your course and bearing. But I don't know why speed per se should increase your profile in active sonar.

Kb

[Ducimus]

Keel,

Just because the game says their pinging you, doesnt mean they really are. "we're getting pinged sir" , what the game really means to say is... "ASDIC, the filthy swine!"

And just because theirs 3 escorst doing a circle around you pinging, doesnt mean they have you located. The reason i posted "DEEPER!" is because of how active sonar works. Go deep enough, and you can literally get under their active sonar, depending on the downward angle of the beam.

The reason why staying at periscope depth helped you before is becuse the topmost portion of the sonar beam was angled doward as to not cover the area just below the surface (periscope depth). In otherwords the upper most elevation of such sonar was like.. 95 degrees or so.

heres a pic for a general idea:
http://www.de220.com/Electronics/Sonar/Sonar%20Photos/Sonar%20Patterns.jpg
Keep in mind the game uses either Q or 1XX sonar, not both at once like it supposed to.

In a way i feel stupididly hipocritical for posting this. WhIle i sort of knew how active sonar worked, for the longest time i honestly didnt think the game would model something like this with any accuracy, despite the fact that the min/max elevations were staring me in the face, i just didnt notice them, and never put 2 and 2 together.

[Keelbuster]

I didn't know that 'they're pinging us' doesn't necessarily mean they have you. I thought it did. As for the sonar cone, I've been pinged at PD, at very close range, ~500m, so the cone has a very shallow draft - like it's basically at the surface, unless yer like 1km away. PD has special status because of the sea state, i imagine. I think it's easier at PD in rough seas, whereas at depth, they can detect you just the same. I know about getting under the sonar cone, which is good, but it has a pretty steep depth - boats that are almost on top of you can ping you. Anyway, I still like to 'use the vertical'. I don't like to get below 130m. I want to keep a little breathing room.

Kb

[MENTAT]

Keel,
And just because theirs 3 escorst doing a circle around you pinging, doesnt mean they have you located. The reason i posted "DEEPER!" is because of how active sonar works. Go deep enough, and you can literally get under their active sonar, depending on the downward angle of the beam.
The reason why staying at periscope depth helped you before is becuse the topmost portion of the sonar beam was angled doward as to not cover the area just below the surface (periscope depth). In otherwords the upper most elevation of such sonar was like.. 95 degrees or so.
Keep in mind the game uses either Q or 1XX sonar, not both at once like it supposed to.
In a way i feel stupididly hipocritical for posting this. WhIle i sort of knew how active sonar worked, for the longest time i honestly didnt think the game would model something like this with any accuracy, despite the fact that the min/max elevations were staring me in the face, i just didnt notice them, and never put 2 and 2 together.

Now i have some confusion, where in the heck we're gonna know which beam they are using? Besides i hope "Search light beam" is not a sonar type, i guess. Or we are in trouble. It is a regular search light we are talking about eh?

Now i dont understand the fact that, why sitting on bottom doesnt work, as my logic says that it ought to be? (I dunno why, maybe i saw that in some sort of movie or so?) Sonar shouldnt be picking you when you are completely displayed *with* bottom? All they must be seing is some rough terrain deep sea on their sonars! How come?:damn:

And i still didnt get it, why "Deeper" is more "safer" ? Can you explain this a bit? I feel unsafer with more depth. I feel those DC's gonna hurt worse if i am at more depth !? (High pressure + DC pressure = more pressure!):o

And lastly, What to do when in shallow waters?? I can never outrun a destroyer say, when infiltrating harbours. It is usually 20m or so there, it is even dangerous to go in PD! Is there any way i can surface and surrender?? :cry: i am demorilized som much when they ram me which is happening frequently.

[kholdstayr]

[quote=Ducimus]Keel,
And i still didnt get it, why "Deeper" is more "safer" ? Can you explain this a bit? I feel unsafer with more depth. I feel those DC's gonna hurt worse if i am at more depth !? (High pressure + DC pressure = more pressure!):o


One reason that deeper is safer is because the deeper you are the longer it takes for the depth charges to fall to your depth. So basically, when you go deep you have a lot more time to evade the depth charges, by turning and speeding up. If you are at periscope depth or something and they drop a depth charge you will have no time to evade because the depth charge will quickly reach your sub.

[Sailor Steve]

Now i have some confusion, where in the heck we're gonna know which beam they are using? Besides i hope "Search light beam" is not a sonar type, i guess. Or we are in trouble. It is a regular search light we are talking about eh?

Sonar in the regular game isn't limited like that. There is a mod which changes this, and I'm pretty sure both GW and NYGM use it. It affects all sonar, so beams don't matter; just know that when they drop, they are dropping blind. When they're almost overhead go to Flank, turn and change depth. Those are your best chances.

Now i dont understand the fact that, why sitting on bottom doesnt work, as my logic says that it ought to be? (I dunno why, maybe i saw that in some sort of movie or so?) Sonar shouldnt be picking you when you are completely displayed *with* bottom? All they must be seing is some rough terrain deep sea on their sonars! How come?:damn:
Sitting on the bottome DOES work...in real life. Apparently the game doesn't represent that, though, so we're stuck with that problem.

"Deeper" has been answered.

And lastly, What to do when in shallow waters?? I can never outrun a destroyer say, when infiltrating harbours. It is usually 20m or so there, it is even dangerous to go in PD! Is there any way i can surface and surrender?? :cry: i am demorilized som much when they ram me which is happening frequently.
Shallow waters are always dangerous; there really isn't anywhere to hide. If you use SH3 Commander, it has a function for surrendering: you can surface and let them kill you, and then it will let you change that to Surrendered. It also lets you do it at any depth, but that really is cheating.