Things I learned from watching U-571

[Subnuts]

* A 200-foot long stationary object is untouchable at 150 yards.
* A German supply submarine is a regular U-boat with an extra 20mm AA gun.
* A leaky 25-year old submarine is a prestigious command.
* A ship struck in the bow will explode deck-first in an enormous fireball.
* A torpedo can travel 400 yards in ten seconds
* A vessel that requires 45 men to operate efficiently can be operated with only six men (four of whom are on the bridge). These six men can also repair the vessel to working order in a few hours.
* American aircraft have convenient 10-foot tall "US NAVY" markings. On the TOP of the wings.
* Atlantic storms are usually accompanied by a mild rain shower.
* Being shot a dozen times at close range is a relatively clean affair.
* Black men weren't just 'token' in the '40s.
* British and German destroyers could drop about 60 depth charges at a time.
* Confusion will not take over when the captain orders a dive, but signals to surface on the diving alarm.
* Depth charges can crack your spine and knock your teeth out, but can't damage a submarine two feet away.
* Destroyers always appear out of nowhere.
* Destroyers usually take on the appearance of a large ocean-going tug.
* Diesel engines can be turned on 20 meters under water.
* Diesel fuel explodes in enormous fireballs.
* Each U-boat crewman was issued an MP-40.
* Everybody smoked in the 40s, but nobody actually inhaled.
* Fighter-sized patrol planes could operate in the mid-Atlantic.
* German destroyers regularly appeared in the North Atlantic in mid-1942.
* German U-boats had cozy lounges with leather sofas and expensive tables.
* It's okay to spray gunfire around in a cramped metal tube.
* It's possible to locate the exact location a crippled sub based on it's radio signals, which you can not decrypt.
* Mechanics hang out in one spot while being depth charged.
* Red light is all-encompassing.
* Submarine-mounted deck guns had laser-like accuracy.
* Submariners completely unadapted to a new submarine type adjust in about 45 seconds.
* Submarines in WWII routinely engaged in underwater dogfights.
* Submarines remain on the surface even after a crash dive has been ordered.
* The best way to attack an unescorted merchant at night is submerged, using the search periscope.
* The control panels on a German submarine are "all in German!"
* The electrician berserker squad was the most lethal German fighting force at the time.
* The French resistance could obtain extremely high-quality photographs, but could not obtain the subject of said photographs.
* The handle that activates the stern torpedo tube is located in the bilge.
* Torpedo tube inner doors (and the torpedoes within) can survive the water pressure at 700 feet.
* Torpedoes have 10,000-pound warheads.
* U-boat crewmen were never cross-trained to operate diesel engines.
* U-boats machine gunned survivors in lifeboats "every now and then".
* You can't hold your breath for six minutes straight.
* You should Wave your hands heroically while drowning instead of shouting "throw me a f**king rope!"

[Torplexed]

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Must include: Of course you can launch two torpedoes simultaneously....trim tanks....who needs trim tanks?

[Ula Jolly]

AHAHAWmygood goddess of laughter! :rotfl:
Most of these I didn't even register when I watched the film. :arrgh!:
Also... When a submarine is engaged by a German destroyer, it is perfectly feasible for the crew of said submarine to lure the destroyer into range of Allied aircraft.:smug:

[Torplexed]

That reminds of one of my favorite (read awful) quotes from that movie:

Wentz:"If we head for England, we're gonna go straight through the western approaches."
Sailor:"He's right... I mean, thats Jerry's backyard."

I wonder how many Germans who came under air attack would beg to differ? ;)

[Ducimus]

What i wondered, was where the hell were they were they thought they could lure that destroyer into allied air cover and "call in an air strike".


And they way they were talking, you'd swear they thought they could lure said destroyer submerged.. allll that way.. Suuuuurreeeeee they could.:roll:

[bigboywooly]

the worst thing about U571 is its just a load of Hollywood b*ll*cks

The enigma codes were not captured that way or by the US but by the Royal Navy from 2 different submarines

U559
FateSunk 30 Oct, 1942 in the Mediterranean (http://www.uboat.net/maps/mediterranean.htm) north-east of Port Said, in position 32.30N, 33.00E, by depth charges from the British destroyers HMS Pakenham (http://www.uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/4489.html), HMS Petard (http://www.uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/4495.html) and HMS Hero (http://www.uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/4402.html) and the British escort destroyers HMS Dulverton (http://www.uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/4647.html) and HMS Hurworth (http://www.uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/4653.html), and a British Wellesley aircraft from RAF 47 Sqn. 7 dead and 38 survivors.
The boat was boarded by 3 men who had swum over to the sinking wreck. They went into the boat and captured several vital secret documents which greatly helped (some say, enabled) to break the German Enigma (http://www.uboat.net/technical/enigma.htm) code machine. 2 of the 3 drowned inside the boat while still handing out files.

U110
FateCaptured on 9 May, 1941 in the North Atlantic south of Iceland by the destroyers HMS Bulldog (http://www.uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/4359.html), HMS Broadway (http://www.uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/4322.html) and the British corvette HMS Aubretia (http://www.uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/4714.html). The boat was allowed to sink the day after to preserve the secret capture. 15 dead and 32 survivors.
"The Secret Capture"
U-110 (http://www.uboat.net/find_boat.php3?find_boat=110) met its end on May 9, 1941 when it was captured . This is what most people view as the most important capture of the entire war and it was so secret that even the crew of U-110 (http://www.uboat.net/find_boat.php3?find_boat=110) did not know of it! U-110 (http://www.uboat.net/find_boat.php3?find_boat=110), under the command of Kptlt. Fritz Julius Lemp, had been attacking a convoy along with U-201 (http://www.uboat.net/boats/u201.htm) (Oblt. Adalbert Schnee (http://www.uboat.net/men/schnee.htm)) when Lemp (http://www.uboat.net/men/lemp.htm) left his periscope up too long (probably to confirm a kill, he sank two ships on that day amounting to 7500 GRT) and the escort HMS Aubretia spotted it and rushed to the scene dropping depth charges.
U-110 (http://www.uboat.net/find_boat.php3?find_boat=110) survived the first attacks but then HMS Bulldog and HMS Broadway came and joined in the hunt. U-110 (http://www.uboat.net/find_boat.php3?find_boat=110) was forced to surface and HMS Bulldog immediately went onto ramming course (its commander realized at the very last moment that a capture might come off and tried to avoid hitting U-110 (http://www.uboat.net/find_boat.php3?find_boat=110) which he almost did) which Lemp (http://www.uboat.net/men/lemp.htm) noticed and ordered "Abandon Ship". Lemp (http://www.uboat.net/men/lemp.htm) figured that since the boat was going to be rammed (and presumably sunk) its secrets were safe within it. Only when he was in the water did he realize that the boat was not sinking and attempted to swim back and prevent capture and that was the last seen of him. Many say he was shot in the water by a British sailor but that may not be at all true.
The British made several journeys between U-110 (http://www.uboat.net/find_boat.php3?find_boat=110) and HMS Bulldog to collect whatever they could get their hands on inside the boat. This must have been a real treat as U-110 (http://www.uboat.net/find_boat.php3?find_boat=110) was abandoned in a hurry and being a IXB (http://www.uboat.net/types/ixb.htm) class she did not sink as rapidly as VIIC (http://www.uboat.net/types/viic.htm) would likely have done. It is very likely that numerous U-boats were sunk using the material found inside U-110 (http://www.uboat.net/find_boat.php3?find_boat=110). The day after the boat was captured someone realized that the allies already had the most important part of U-110 (http://www.uboat.net/find_boat.php3?find_boat=110), namely the secret documents and Enigma (http://www.uboat.net/technical/enigma.htm) machine and that the Germans might find out that the British had the boat soon and, assuming the worst, change all codes and cipher system. The boat thus "accidentally" sank when being towed to Britain. 15 men were killed in the action and 32 captured. Lemp (http://www.uboat.net/men/lemp.htm) himself did not survive as noted above.

No mention of the USN in there then lol

[Umfuld]

It's on Bravo right now.

[JScones]

Things I learnt from reading this thread:

that BLACK and BLUE are not good font colours to use when one has the Admin Blue scheme.

[Fab]

"Diesel engines can be turned on 20 meters under water."

Well, that's true. They can be turned on 200 meters under water if you really want to. After they've sucked all the air out of everyone's lungs they'll sputter out. I'm sure it was a bad couple of seconds when heavy seas washed over the top of the schnorchel. ;)

Actually, the two worst things about U-571 are:

1) I saw it, therefore the knowledge of it is burned into my brain and
2) I'll never have those two hours back . . . ever

Now for a real discussion: which movie is worse, U-571 or Pearl Harbor?

[Umfuld]

Pearl Harbor, no question.


The thing about U-571 is it's oddly enough a suspense movie. I mean, it's meant as a action film, but all of it's action is built as dramatic suspense. Not really what I look for in film.

The tension in say Das Boot is very realistic, and not just Hollywood fun time.

[Drebbel]

:D

You should Wave your hands heroically while drowning instead of shouting "throw me a f**king rope!"

If you can shout your head is above the water
if your head is above the water you are not drowning

:D

[The_Blockade_Runner]

U-571 is not that bad of a movie. Sure its not historically accurate, but its entertaining to watch. Who would want to watch a bunch of guys sail around all movie in a glorified pop can doing nothing. You can't use TC in the movies, so action is always happpening.

Since they were in a sub they needed something to attack for the plot, so they threw in a german destroyer.

[Drebbel]

I agree. It is a fun action movie !!

[VonHelsching]

Now for a real discussion: which movie is worse, U-571 or Pearl Harbor?

Well, none of the above. The worse is yet to come:

U-571 in Pearl Harbor (helping the Japanese):rotfl:

[bigboywooly]

Personally i would rather have seen the real version of U571 with U110 inc the convoy attack and depthcharging/ramming now that would have been far more entertaining than some completely made up plot so far removed from the truth its unbelievable
And if it had been made by Peterson all the better still one can only hope
The trouble is there is a new generation of people ( in the US especially) that watch films such as U571 and dont know any different as far as the truth goes because of Hollywoods attitude to the war

[Rhodes]

For me the worst moment in U-571 was the scene were diesel fuel igntites with a sparkle from the light ball...but there is one thing that I like in the movie, the fact that the U-571 went to 300 m and held a bit and harvey keitel caracter says a good line and the fact that the american submarine when at periscope depth has more water comming in that my u-boat models in my tub... Enfim passando à frente...

[Rosencrantz]

Subnuts, you just confirmed my bad feelings... I have tried to avoid that film - even its cover looks very, very suspiciouse. :lol:

So, thanks for info, it was funny to read!

-RC-

[Enigma]

Do you guys have any idea how incredibly boring a completely textbook realistic submarine film would be?

[Subnuts]

Do you guys have any idea how incredibly boring a completely textbook realistic submarine film would be?

No, but thanks to U-571 I do know how relentlessly stupid and :roll: inducing a submarine movie can really be.

And was it just me or were all the characters in U-571 cardboard cutouts? It's not impossible for a two-hour action movie to have at least a few mildly compelling characters! :shifty:

[Rose]

The trouble is there is a new generation of people ( in the US especially) that watch films such as U571 and dont know any different as far as the truth goes because of Hollywoods attitude to the war

HEY! Watch who you make the subject of your generalizations! Most Americans are actually good people :D.

[Drebbel]

that watch films such as U571 and dont know any different as far as the truth goes because of Hollywoods attitude to the war

But lets be honest, is that a problem, is that a bad thing ? :hmm:

[U-Bones]

Hollywood does a horrible job of representing the truth, much less Americans and their actual values and positions. As an American citizen who has proudly served my country, I can say they do NOT speak for me on anything of importance.

So just a reminder, Hollywood != typical American, and Americans are not the only ones who too often tend to believe everything they see on film or TV.

It used to be entertainment, now almost everything is a delivery system for propaganda of some type. :cry:

[bigboywooly]

lol I know that and didnt mean it in that way - hell if I didnt like the people or country ( USA ) I wouldnt go there for my holidays ( and not disneyland either ) what I meant was if a whole generation is bought up watching films which are "adapted" to suit the American market then thats what they will grow up believing
Yes the films are watched here too but there are also many programmes here that you wont see over there that address the balance and of course they are still taught the war in schools in history

I know that films have to grab the interest of the viewer and keep it but the plot in that film bears no relation to what happened and just as you leapt to the defence of your country how do you think the people who were actually present at the real capture of the sub (U101) - the Royal Navy_ feel about it being rewritten to make out it was the USN that saved the day as far as the Enigma was concerned

Not slating the US at all and apologise if thats how it came across

It just gets a bit annoying this side of the pond when these films are all " adapted " for the US market without any semblance of fact in them

[STEED]

Never seen the film U-571, I found the trailers for it just a tasteless joke and a bloody insult to the real events that took place. http://www.langkawi.dk/smileys/u00108.gif

[Puster Bill]

* It's possible to locate the exact location a crippled sub based on it's radio signals, which you can not decrypt.

Actually, that is true. It is called 'High Frequency Direction Finding', HF/DF, or as the Brits liked to call it 'Huff Duff'. In fact, that is an excellent way to tell where a crippled submarine is. This is because it gives you (to varying degrees of accuracy, depending on a number of technical factors) a chance to locate where a target is without needing to derive intelligence from the actual message transmitted. It is of more limited use when the target is mobile, because they can transmit from one location and then move to a different one before you can deploy assets in that area.

In the general field of Signals Intelligence, there are three ways of gaining information on the people you are monitoring:

1. The creme de la creme, the timely decryption of encrypted target signals. It goes without saying that this is the gold standard of SIGINT, as it not only can tell you where a particular target is and what it is doing, but can also tell you of their future plans.

2. Direction Finding: Allows you to find the location of a specific transmitter. This works by having several different receiving stations take simultaineous bearings when the target is transmitting. Then, you simply draw lines on a map from each of those stations, and where they intersect is where the target is.

3. Traffic Analysis: You can derive a lot of useful intelligence just by observing what stations communicate, and what actions happen both before and after they communicate. You can then make assumptions in the future about what will happen based on patterns observed.

I have to agree with most of the list, however. A better movie for this sort of thing is "Enigma", starring Dougray Scott, Kate Winslet, and Saffron Burrows (Yowser! hubba-hubba!). It has some flaws also, but none anywhere near as egregious as U-571. The main one is that the main character in the movie is supposed to be Alan Turing, who was gay, not lusting after Ms. Burrows in silk stockings (c'mon, Puster Bill, concentrate!). The Morse in that movie is actually pretty good. Most of the times, Morse in the movies is just gibberish.

/Ex Army 05H (Electronic Warfare Signals Intelligence Morse Interceptor)
//Current Ham Radio op.

[Sailor Steve]

the worst thing about U571 is its just a load of Hollywood b*ll*cks

The enigma codes were not captured that way or by the US but by the Royal Navy from 2 different submarines...etc.
We've all known that was the real problem with U-571 from the day it was released. Of course it has nothing to do with history, or with much of anything else. The point of the thread was the funny parts...we know the rest.

[The Noob]

I love U-571!:yep:

Best submarine movie ever!:rock::up:

[Puster Bill]

I love U-571!:yep:

Best submarine movie ever!:rock::up:

Except for all the others...

[Seminole]

To be honest I liked this movie and Pearl Harbor and for that matter most war films I ever watched.


I was never under any illusion that they were made with the idea in mind of satisfying my vision of a historically correct film.

I am happy to sit back and be satisfied and say when I see an inacurracy ....that hey....I know better. If it is an entertaning flick then I got my money's worth.

[The Noob]

Except for all the others...

I already thought this way BEFORE i ever used this forums. If others dislike a movie, why should i?

If others dislike Darth Vader, why should i?

:know:

[Puster Bill]

I am happy to sit back and be satisfied and say when I see an inacurracy ....that hey....I know better. If it is an entertaning flick then I got my money's worth.
Thing is, you can make an entertaining movie that is reasonably historically accurate. Pearl Harbor and U-571 have excellent and pretty much historically accurate counterparts, 'Tora Tora Tora' and 'Das Boot'. The story line in 'Enigma', outside of the romance and spy in Bletchley Park, is historically accurate and based on actual events.

It can be done.

[Kurushio]

There is a big difference between U-571 and Pearl Harbor. U-571 changes history. Pearl Harbor just pretties it up. I think the former is worst.

[Kurushio]

Thing is, you can make an entertaining movie that is reasonably historically accurate. Pearl Harbor and U-571 have excellent and pretty much historically accurate counterparts, 'Tora Tora Tora' and 'Das Boot'. The story line in 'Enigma', outside of the romance and spy in Bletchley Park, is historically accurate and based on actual events.

It can be done.

If they made a movie along the lines of Tora Tora Tora or Das Booty, nobody would go and watch it. Movie making has moved on. You have to include something for the girls (romance) etc.

Though Das Boot is definitely a movie to watch on your own. Certainly hide it if a girl you're trying to impress comes round to your house. :up:

[JScones]

There is a big difference between U-571 and Pearl Harbor. U-571 changes history. Pearl Harbor just pretties it up. I think the former is worst.
Yeah, I can't fathom (pardon the pun) U-571 for this very reason. It's non-conformance to history just ruins it for me. Pearl Harbor - at least beyond the American flag waving - is kinda sorta nearly based on something that actually happened, so is more palatable to me.

[perisher]

My only problem with the U-571 movie was that it was sold as reality. It's as accurate a depiction of submarine warfare as James Bond movies are of the real world of espionage. Sold as entertainment they are both fine.

One of my favourite sub movies is "We Dive At Dawn", which is as believable as U-571. A sub, short of fuel, sails into an enemy held harbour and boards a tanker, from which it then refuels, whilst under fire!! However, it never claimed to be a true story. It was also made during the Second World War so it must be seen as propaganda.

Pearl Harbor is in a class of its own. It is an insult to just about everyone, especially any fool, like me, who paid money to see it. Rather than write the longest post in history, listing its faults; I'll list its good features, which are :-:hmm:
Well none, actually.

[Subnuts]

I remember back when U-571 came out the director, Jonathan Mostow, said that Das Boot's depiction of the U-boat war was innacurate and his movie was far more realistic.

Prick. :roll:

[Rose]

The story line in 'Enigma', outside of the romance and spy in Bletchley Park, is historically accurate and based on actual events.

Enigma is a pretty good movie :D.

[Puster Bill]

If they made a movie along the lines of Tora Tora Tora or Das Booty, nobody would go and watch it. Movie making has moved on. You have to include something for the girls (romance) etc.


Bull. You have fallen for Hollywood propaganda. Ever since 'Jaws' and 'Star Wars', the studios have been looking for the next big blockbuster, which is why they make movies that try to be all things to all people, all people being defined as the 12 to 24 year old demographic. So, they won't take a chance on a film that might be somewhat quirky by their standards, because they don't see it bringing in a bazillion dollars of gross.

By the way, I don't go to movie theaters anymore. I can see no advantage in paying 9 or 10 bucks, along with overpriced concession stand crap, to sit in a theater with people who hold inane discussions or worst yet, use their cellphone, to see a movie I could rent for 5 bucks and watch in the comfort of my own home in 3 or 4 months.

But I'm not bitter...

[CCIP]

I remember back when U-571 came out the director, Jonathan Mostow, said that Das Boot's depiction of the U-boat war was innacurate and his movie was far more realistic.

Prick. :roll:
Indeed :roll:

Let's face it, U-571 came out way, way after Das Boot, and hadn't even touched any of the level of quality of that movie. It could be excused if there was no "U-boat movie done right" before. But frankly, after Das Boot did it so well and showed that a (relatively) more realistic U-boat movie is a really a very good thing, making THIS and then going around and talking crap about Das Boot is just moronic.

I hate to even mention U-571 and Das Boot in the same sentence. There doesn't need to be a comparison. One is a piece of hollywood vanilla, the other is a piece of film history. Everyone in this thread must go and cleanse themselves by watching the directors cut twice, and/or the full original version :88)

[Sailor Steve]

I just finished watching the Full-lenght version two days ago; but you're right, one more time won't hurt. Maybe this weekend.

Or maybe I'll just jump back into one of my SHIII careers. Now THERE's a realistic u-boat movie!

[Engel der Vernichtung]

Bull. You have fallen for Hollywood propaganda. Ever since 'Jaws' and 'Star Wars', the studios have been looking for the next big blockbuster, which is why they make movies that try to be all things to all people, all people being defined as the 12 to 24 year old demographic. So, they won't take a chance on a film that might be somewhat quirky by their standards, because they don't see it bringing in a bazillion dollars of gross.

By the way, I don't go to movie theaters anymore. I can see no advantage in paying 9 or 10 bucks, along with overpriced concession stand crap, to sit in a theater with people who hold inane discussions or worst yet, use their cellphone, to see a movie I could rent for 5 bucks and watch in the comfort of my own home in 3 or 4 months.

But I'm not bitter...

You should go to the Alamo Drafthouse theater in my town. The food is overpriced, 'tis true, but it's decent food! Quite good, actually, IMO. and they serve you beer!

(added bonus: they will eject people making noise)

www.alamodrafthouse.com (http://www.alamodrafthouse.com)
Link to menu (pdf): http://www.alamodrafthouse.com/lakecreek/menu.pdf

(sorry if this is OT, but I couldn't resist the chance to plug my favorite theater!)

[Ducimus]

For me the worst moment in U-571 was the scene were diesel fuel igntites with a sparkle from the light ball..


Why didnt i see this before :roll:
I can tell anyone from personal experince from having to do a few trash/scrap burning details while deployed, that Diesal does not burn very well at all. Its enough to make you go mad for want of MoGas. So ya, 4 human torchs at the beginning of U571.... suuuurrrreeeee.

[Ducimus]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboywooly
The trouble is there is a new generation of people ( in the US especially) that watch films such as U571 and dont know any different as far as the truth goes because of Hollywoods attitude to the war
HEY! Watch who you make the subject of your generalizations! Most Americans are actually good people.

He has a point sadly enough. I did not know this, and i woudlnt have believed it until i saw it first hand. There are American's who do not know:

- why we celeibrate the 4th of july. To some its a day to bbq, drink beer, set off firecrackers, and thats it. No clue as to why.

- Anything about or dealing with, the American revolutionary war. or the signficance of 1776. (see 4th of july)

- what POW/MIA means. My own spouse went unto me oneday and asked, "hon, whats Pow Mia?" ( she said it exactly how it sounds. pow.. meeya)


I think i can stop there, thats enough. you may think im full of it, but its sadly true. So ya, hollywood movies will most definatly be beleived as factual information to some people. :roll:

[Darth Brooks]

At least with U-571 they used something that at least looked like a german submarine (I'm wondering where the lounge was too). In Pearl Harbor, both sides apparently used modern slant deck aricraft carriers. Before anyone makes any excuses, consider the size of the budget on Pearl Harbor. 1/10,000 of the budget could have been used on good looking models/cgi for the carriers. The japanese carriers were ugly beasts so it was an opportunity lost to do something interesting on screen.

Instead we have Alec Baldwin lecturing Ben Affleck next to the steam catapults on the WHAT? 1941 era carrier!

And when did FIGHTER pilots join BOMBER squadrons flying aircraft they never trained for????

[JScones]

- what POW/MIA means. My own spouse went unto me oneday and asked, "hon, whats Pow Mia?" ( she said it exactly how it sounds. pow.. meeya)
Geez you no nothing. Haven't you ever heard the song "O Pow Mia", the old Italian Operatic theme...:rotfl:

But I can tell you from my interactions with Americans abroad (are they a different breed at all? Because Americans in America are generally nice people on the whole, with the exception of any that utter "Have a nice day y'all" :lol:), I totally agree with your comments.

[joea]

You should go to the Alamo Drafthouse theater in my town. The food is overpriced, 'tis true, but it's decent food! Quite good, actually, IMO. and they serve you beer!

(added bonus: they will eject people making noise)

www.alamodrafthouse.com (http://www.alamodrafthouse.com)
Link to menu (pdf): http://www.alamodrafthouse.com/lakecreek/menu.pdf

(sorry if this is OT, but I couldn't resist the chance to plug my favorite theater!)

Dude, you are so damn lucky! Nice menu.:p

[Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Ducimus
Why didnt i see this before :roll:
I can tell anyone from personal experince from having to do a few trash/scrap burning details while deployed, that Diesal does not burn very well at all. Its enough to make you go mad for want of MoGas. So ya, 4 human torchs at the beginning of U571.... suuuurrrreeeee.

So what are You saying? Do You agree with what I wrotte or not?

[Rose]

He has a point sadly enough. I did not know this, and i woudlnt have believed it until i saw it first hand. There are American's who do not know:

- why we celeibrate the 4th of july. To some its a day to bbq, drink beer, set off firecrackers, and thats it. No clue as to why.

- Anything about or dealing with, the American revolutionary war. or the signficance of 1776. (see 4th of july)

- what POW/MIA means. My own spouse went unto me oneday and asked, "hon, whats Pow Mia?" ( she said it exactly how it sounds. pow.. meeya)


I think i can stop there, thats enough. you may think im full of it, but its sadly true. So ya, hollywood movies will most definatly be beleived as factual information to some people. :roll:

Wow, thats really sad actually.

[tbarak]

LOL, actually a funny thread. A few more that came to mind:

- Make sure to tie a wounded man down super tight to a lead stretcher (so he can't even move his arms) when transferring him in a dinghy in rough stormy seas.

- After coming all that way and accomplishing a super dangerous mission to steal the Enigma, once you've seized it, make sure its the last thing that you take aboard your ship.

- Always know that the German sailors will cower in fear at the first sign of gun fire.

- You can always be sure that the head spy, whose undergone years of training and psychological evaluation will get tongue tied at a critical moment in action.

- I'm still to this day wondering what those German guys patrolling on the bridge and conning tower were doing with SMGs when they were stationary in a storm (the scene when they were waiting while the Americans paddled over to them).

- When you're a sailor aboard a sub, and you remove special, personal items like a ring and place them on a shelf in your quarters, always place the item right near the edge of the shelf since of course subs don't heave and rock in the ocean.

- Even though you have to keep it a secret that you're half German so your buddies won't hate you, once they hear you speak it fluently, they won't ask any questions.

[Sailor Steve]

You should go to the Alamo Drafthouse theater in my town. The food is overpriced, 'tis true, but it's decent food! Quite good, actually, IMO. and they serve you beer!

(added bonus: they will eject people making noise)

www.alamodrafthouse.com (http://www.alamodrafthouse.com)
Link to menu (pdf): http://www.alamodrafthouse.com/lakecreek/menu.pdf

(sorry if this is OT, but I couldn't resist the chance to plug my favorite theater!)
We have a similar place here in Salt Lake; ours is called Brewvies.

[caspofungin]

"what's good about Pearl Harbour?"

Kate Beckinsale. she looked good. although they diluted her appearances w/ some drivel about a couple of pilots, an air attack or some such...

[nikimcbee]

"Diesel engines can be turned on 20 meters under water."

Well, that's true. They can be turned on 200 meters under water if you really want to. After they've sucked all the air out of everyone's lungs they'll sputter out. I'm sure it was a bad couple of seconds when heavy seas washed over the top of the schnorchel. ;)

Actually, the two worst things about U-571 are:

1) I saw it, therefore the knowledge of it is burned into my brain and
2) I'll never have those two hours back . . . ever

Now for a real discussion: which movie is worse, U-571 or Pearl Harbor?

Pearl Harbor:arrgh!: :arrgh!: The air combat scene is the worst!!!!!!:oops: Plus with all that technology, they have modern warships in the background:damn:

[The_Blockade_Runner]

Are you kidding me, I though at least the air combat scenes in Pearl Harbor were impressive.


The sub film ever made is: Down Periscope:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Umfuld]

What I love about u-571 is, sure, a german destroyer West of England is great. But not as stupid as the captian of said Destroyers look of horrified surprise when they notice a torpedo coming at them.


"Oh my god! We were chasing a sub directly behind her aft tube, and now there's a torpedo coming straight for us! How did that happen!??"

:rotfl:

[Floater]

Indeed - that's something I learned from U-571 too. Previously, I thought that a ship attacking a submarine should approach from the side and weave about a bit, but I was wrong.

I was also surprised to learn that a deck gun crew (operating an unfamiliar gun) were (a) invisible to the enemy, even with the gun manned and trained on the enemy vessel; and (b) had an amazing ability to target the radio mast of a ship without trial and error. They were clever people!

One of the extra features on the DVD is a US sub guy explaining the the film is realistic in that all subs are basically the same, so there's no problem quickly manning and operating a sub you've never seen before. I wonder what he was paid to say that, or what substances he was on at the time. Or both.

[joea]

Are you kidding me, I though at least the air combat scenes in Pearl Harbor were impressive.


The sub film ever made is: Down Periscope:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

:rotfl:

About the air combat, hated the bit when Ben Affleck said something to the effect that the Zeros were faster than P-40s but our P-40s were more maneuverable. :nope: Was just the opposite historically. They should have just made a film about Kate Beckinsdale. :smug:

[Frying Tiger]

Actually, the Zero was both faster AND more manueverable than the P40... it climbed better, and had a higher ceiling. They were also flown by better trained pilots at the start of the war. However, the standard Japanese fighting style (one group attack followed by individual dogfights) was countered eventually by US team tactics, always staying in pairs and not dogfighting.

Of course, none of that would have anything to do with a movie like "Pearl Harbor", since the US had modern frigates and aircraft carriers. And an F-14 or F/A-18 can certainly outperform a Zero, despite what "The Final Countdown" would have you believe! (grin)

"The Enemy Below" is a pretty good sub movie... although I can't get past Captain Crane of the "Seaview" being the first officer of the DDE...

[fred8615]

* American aircraft have convenient 10-foot tall "US NAVY" markings. On the TOP of the wings.

Actually, they did. Especially before the war. I've seen the pictures.

* Black men weren't just 'token' in the '40s.

They weren't, at least not in the Navy, where onboard ship you had to be able to do different tasks. Although they were primarly cooks, mess attendants, and orderlies, blacks in the navy also had combat assignments as well. One ship's captain had his men trained and used as AA gunners. Others were used as damage control, ammo handlers, medical orderlies, etc.

* The French resistance could obtain extremely high-quality photographs, but could not obtain the subject of said photographs.

Are you talking about the photos of the Enigma machine? Did the movie actually say they were taken by the resistance? Because the British already had an Enigma machine, which they got from the Poles. Although this does fly in the face of the seemingly main premise of the movie (they need the machine), in fact all they really needed was the settings for it, i.e., the codebooks. The pictures were (I always assumed anyway) of the one the Brits already had.

[Sailor Steve]

Actually, the Zero was both faster AND more manueverable than the P40... it climbed better, and had a higher ceiling...
Actually not. The P-40 was some 30 mph faster at all altitudes, and had a much better roll rate and a vastly superior dive speed. The main tactic developed by Claire Chennault's American Volunteer Group was to attack from above, building considerable speed which allowed the P-40 to either continue diving or climb away, the speed offsetting the Reisen's slightly superior climb.
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p40_8.html
http://rwebs.net/ghostsqd/a6m2.htm

I read of one critic calling Pearl Harbor 'Pearl Wars', because of the silly scenes of planes chasing each other down the streets.

[joea]

Actually, the Zero was both faster AND more manueverable than the P40... it climbed better, and had a higher ceiling. They were also flown by better trained pilots at the start of the war. However, the standard Japanese fighting style (one group attack followed by individual dogfights) was countered eventually by US team tactics, always staying in pairs and not dogfighting.

Of course, none of that would have anything to do with a movie like "Pearl Harbor", since the US had modern frigates and aircraft carriers. And an F-14 or F/A-18 can certainly outperform a Zero, despite what "The Final Countdown" would have you believe! (grin)

"The Enemy Below" is a pretty good sub movie... although I can't get past Captain Crane of the "Seaview" being the first officer of the DDE...

Meant that they (P-40s) dive better. edit: saw Steve's post. Team tactics and "boom and zoom" no turning beat the Zeros. Heck most Japanese pilots removed the radios to save weight and space.

Not changing my mind about sweet Kate though.

[Marko]

Hollywood does a horrible job of representing the truth, much less Americans and their actual values and positions. As an American citizen who has proudly served my country, I can say they do NOT speak for me on anything of importance.



I really wonder who really representing the truth nowdays.

[EkimRis]

I was watching U 571 on TV when I read this :rotfl:

[FAdmiral]

Aside from all the other things mentioned here, my main question right
after I saw the movie for the first time is:
HOW did the milk cow boat identify the sub it saw in the periscope
in the driving rain as American when it fooled the Germans in U-571
only yards away on the surface???

End of story
JIM

[Rose]

Maybe they intercepted a radio report.... or something...

[VoodooPriest]

Heck most Japanese pilots removed the radios to save weight and space.

Not only that, many of them even flew without their parachutes... :o

[FAdmiral]

NOPE, radio silence was key to American success.....
It would have given them away immediately

JIM

[Subnuts]

NOPE, radio silence was key to American success.....
It would have given them away immediately

JIM

The German supply boat had just blown up an oil tanker with one of it's atomic torpedoes, which tore open a rift in time and space, launching them into the Year 2000, where the captain read the script. The U-boat then blew up another ship with it's atomic torpedoes, and was hurled back in time to 1942.

[FAdmiral]

Don't stop with that storyline now, it would make a good sequel.


JIM

[Rose]

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: I love these forums :smug:.

[bookworm_020]

The copy of U-571 that I own (don't worry it's a cheap thai knock off) has an extra which one of the men who retrieved the enigma machine and code books from the U-110 tells the story behind the capture.

I also read the US need to capture their own engima machine as the British wouldn't give them the details, despite the US giving them the details of the Japanese codes. Winston Churchill didn't think they would be able to keep it secure. He was right in doing so. The Germans had cracked the american radio codes and had used the information to help Rommel in North Africa.

This is why the US went after the U-505. This is also listed in the credits of the movie, along with the three previous British captures.

For the record, I think the moive is light weight fluff and doesn't do justice to anyone on either side. Das Boot on the otherhand, is far more engaging:up:

[Darth Brooks]

Aside from all the other things mentioned here, my main question right
after I saw the movie for the first time is:
HOW did the milk cow boat identify the sub it saw in the periscope
in the driving rain as American when it fooled the Germans in U-571
only yards away on the surface???

End of story
JIM

Good Question. I assumed that they guessed there was one too many subs. But who was german and who wasn't would have been a tough read through the periscope. Maybe they just fired at the ship with the guys holding guns.

[Ducimus]

Aside from all the other things mentioned here, my main question right
after I saw the movie for the first time is:
HOW did the milk cow boat identify the sub it saw in the periscope
in the driving rain as American when it fooled the Germans in U-571
only yards away on the surface???

End of story
JIM

I thought about that, and the only explanation i could logically think of (assuming they could see through the periscope at all), is the US navy uniforms being worn by deck personnel. Not to mention that Black men weren't in the Kreigsmarine. (in reference to the stewert marking the german prisoners with chaulk.)

But still.... how did they see all that, at what was probably at least 1500-2000 meters away, at night, in a driving rain, through a periscope?

One thing that i kept thinking of, was the depth gauge was wrong.

[The Noob]

They seen the Firefight between the Crew of U-571 and the Americans, and manuvered into position to Fire. This took some time. Then they blew up the American Boat.

Damn Easy!:D

[The Noob]

Now this is Already at the Subsim Start Page...:down::nope:

I can't get why anyone Hates U-571.:shifty:
It'a MOVIE Goddamnit! Not a Documenation or Such.

[Puster Bill]

I also read the US need to capture their own engima machine as the British wouldn't give them the details, despite the US giving them the details of the Japanese codes. Winston Churchill didn't think they would be able to keep it secure. He was right in doing so. The Germans had cracked the american radio codes and had used the information to help Rommel in North Africa.


Kind of true, at the beginning of the war, and totally false by 1943 or so. In fact, the US built better and faster bombes for cracking Enigma than the British did, and the American servicemen who ran the bombes (both CANTAB and American ones) took pride that they could turn around the settings much faster than the British ladies (The British, due to a manpower shortage, used women to run their bombes).

Certainly, by the time the US captured U-505 (and it's Enigma machine) in 1944 the US and UK had an extremely close SIGINT relationship.

By the way, that relationship continues to this very day.

/ex-dittybopper

[Subnuts]

Now this is Already at the Subsim Start Page...:down::nope:

I can't get why anyone Hates U-571.:shifty:
It'a MOVIE Goddamnit! Not a Documenation or Such.

Because even movies suck sometimes.

[fredbass]

I skipped through most of the posts in this thread.

I've seen Pearl Harbor and U571 and both were good and entertaining movies, realism aside of course.

[FAdmiral]

The only explanation I could logically think of (sighting would have been useless)
was MAYBE in the sound detection on the American boat. U-571 was dead in
the water and the S-boat was too. BUT, as the S-Boat approached U-571,
its diesels MAY have had a different sound signature than U-Boats. Of course,
it's all speculation and they just made the movie for action shots rather than to
simulate any kind of historical accuracy....


JIM

[Dekessey]

U-571 entertaining?

True, it was an excellent comedy!

[Ducimus]

I still want to know how they planned to lure that german destroyer into allied aircover and call in an airstrike!

[Subnuts]

I still want to know how they planned to lure that german destroyer into allied aircover and call in an airstrike!

I'm more interested in knowing how a lone destroyer made it halfway across the Atlantic in such beautiful weather, and where that reconnaissance plane came from. If it hadn't been attacked and sunk on the way out, why would it be any different on the way back? :-?

[longdog499]

In the great scheme of things I don't suppose I've achieved much in my life but I AM proud of the fact that I only watched 5 minutes of that movie before I thought 'This is bull****!' and promptly binned it.

[Snakeeyes]

* A 200-foot long stationary object is untouchable at 150 yards.
* A German supply submarine is a regular U-boat with an extra 20mm AA gun.
* A leaky 25-year old submarine is a prestigious command.
* A ship struck in the bow will explode deck-first in an enormous fireball.
* A torpedo can travel 400 yards in ten seconds
* A vessel that requires 45 men to operate efficiently can be operated with only six men (four of whom are on the bridge). These six men can also repair the vessel to working order in a few hours.
* American aircraft have convenient 10-foot tall "US NAVY" markings. On the TOP of the wings.
* Atlantic storms are usually accompanied by a mild rain shower.
* Being shot a dozen times at close range is a relatively clean affair.
* Black men weren't just 'token' in the '40s.
* British and German destroyers could drop about 60 depth charges at a time.
* Confusion will not take over when the captain orders a dive, but signals to surface on the diving alarm.
* Depth charges can crack your spine and knock your teeth out, but can't damage a submarine two feet away.
* Destroyers always appear out of nowhere.
* Destroyers usually take on the appearance of a large ocean-going tug.
* Diesel engines can be turned on 20 meters under water.
* Diesel fuel explodes in enormous fireballs.
* Each U-boat crewman was issued an MP-40.
* Everybody smoked in the 40s, but nobody actually inhaled.
* Fighter-sized patrol planes could operate in the mid-Atlantic.
* German destroyers regularly appeared in the North Atlantic in mid-1942.
* German U-boats had cozy lounges with leather sofas and expensive tables.
* It's okay to spray gunfire around in a cramped metal tube.
* It's possible to locate the exact location a crippled sub based on it's radio signals, which you can not decrypt.
* Mechanics hang out in one spot while being depth charged.
* Red light is all-encompassing.
* Submarine-mounted deck guns had laser-like accuracy.
* Submariners completely unadapted to a new submarine type adjust in about 45 seconds.
* Submarines in WWII routinely engaged in underwater dogfights.
* Submarines remain on the surface even after a crash dive has been ordered.
* The best way to attack an unescorted merchant at night is submerged, using the search periscope.
* The control panels on a German submarine are "all in German!"
* The electrician berserker squad was the most lethal German fighting force at the time.
* The French resistance could obtain extremely high-quality photographs, but could not obtain the subject of said photographs.
* The handle that activates the stern torpedo tube is located in the bilge.
* Torpedo tube inner doors (and the torpedoes within) can survive the water pressure at 700 feet.
* Torpedoes have 10,000-pound warheads.
* U-boat crewmen were never cross-trained to operate diesel engines.
* U-boats machine gunned survivors in lifeboats "every now and then".
* You can't hold your breath for six minutes straight.
* You should Wave your hands heroically while drowning instead of shouting "throw me a f**king rope!"

Now Now... I admit... the movie is full of crap but it was intended to be a more modern look at the classic WWII sub movies of yor. Those old ones were REALLY far-fetched yet I bet I would catch you guys watching them if you had nothing to do on a Saturday afternoon with the game rained out. ;)

[dark_wolf]

U-571 entertaining?

True, it was an excellent comedy!

Well...at least we saw the death of Bon Jovi.
That's reason enough to see this movie :yep: :rock:

[fred8615]

Well...at least we saw the death of Bon Jovi.

Hate to burst your bubble, but I'm pretty sure he survives.

[79TransAm]

Well...at least we saw the death of Bon Jovi.

Hate to burst your bubble, but I'm pretty sure he survives.


That and Bon Jovi is god

[P_Funk]

Now Now... I admit... the movie is full of crap but it was intended to be a more modern look at the classic WWII sub movies of yor. Those old ones were REALLY far-fetched yet I bet I would catch you guys watching them if you had nothing to do on a Saturday afternoon with the game rained out. ;)
True. I'd probably be yelling "Yawol, ya bilge spewing redneck. If Jurgen Prochnow were here he probably laugh bitterly and go have a smoke with the WO"

[kholemann]

My wife got me the DVD of that movie cuz she knows I like that part of history. I watched it and almost vomited. I couldn't really say anything to her. I am confident that if I didn't know so much about the history of naval warfare in WWII that I would have really enjoyed the movie. So much is wrong with it, even fictionalized, I just couldn't ever watch it again unless inebreated. The most mind boggling thing was the German Destroyer out in the Atlantic. If Bon Jovi would have broke into song with the other guys doing backup, it would at least have made for a more entertaining (if not horried train-wrecking) of a movie.

[Rose]

Well...at least we saw the death of Bon Jovi.

Hate to burst your bubble, but I'm pretty sure he survives.

I believe he gets hit in the head with a giant piece of metal after the S-boat blows up in an almighty atomic explosion. He is most definitely dead.

[Ducimus]

Which one was Bon Jovi? I honestly missed this. Havent seen a picture of that guy since the 80's.

[dark_wolf]

Which one was Bon Jovi? I honestly missed this. Havent seen a picture of that guy since the 80's.
He played Lt. Pete Emmett, Chief Engineer. And yes...that peace of metal hit in the face (or head) so he got killed in that instant or he drowned later in the sea :yep:
Hopefully they are going to make another sub movie of WWI or WWII in the future...

[Dowly]

:D

You should Wave your hands heroically while drowning instead of shouting "throw me a f**king rope!"
If you can shout your head is above the water
if your head is above the water you are not drowning

:D
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


Oh and who is Andy yelling at, when he calls for an crash dive up on the bridge??? He looks behind him and yells, yet everyone are already below deck.

[fred8615]

Which one was Bon Jovi? I honestly missed this. Havent seen a picture of that guy since the 80's.
He played Lt. Pete Emmett, Chief Engineer. And yes...that peace of metal hit in the face (or head) so he got killed in that instant or he drowned later in the sea

I thought Bon Jovi was the radio/sonar guy. My bad.

[fredbass]

Which one was Bon Jovi? I honestly missed this. Havent seen a picture of that guy since the 80's.

You haven't seen him since the 80's? Last time I saw him he sang at the Daytona 500. Plus he has a hit song out right now with Jennifer Nettles.

[Rose]

Which one was Bon Jovi? I honestly missed this. Havent seen a picture of that guy since the 80's.
He played Lt. Pete Emmett, Chief Engineer. And yes...that peace of metal hit in the face (or head) so he got killed in that instant or he drowned later in the sea :yep:
Hopefully they are going to make another sub movie of WWI or WWII in the future...

...with Bon Jovi as a daring sub captain, who, as it turns out, swam back to England after being blown off of U-571 by a flying chunk of steel and took command of his own S-boat.

[Floater]

Funnily enough, I've just been listening to Bon Jovi, live on stage. For free.

They've just finished a gig at a stadium near here, and the sound carried very well.

[retired1212]

* The Americans were the only people fighting the Nazis so they were the only ones to capture an Enigma Machine...

* when under a great deal of stress, you can speak perfect English with slightly American accents

[Dutch]

They are making a movie out of the book Flag of our Fathers. My father i reading it, covers the invasion of Iwo Jima I believe, not a sub movie but a WW2 movie nonetheless.

[mheil]

Another silly movie would be "Under Siege" - I know its really bad and I generally don't like steven segal but, I liked this movie (as much as I hate to say it!)

[dark_wolf]

They are making a movie out of the book Flag of our Fathers. My father i reading it, covers the invasion of Iwo Jima I believe, not a sub movie but a WW2 movie nonetheless.

Yeah. I believe Clint Eastwood is directing (or producing) it. Actually they are going to make two movies about the subject. First one tells the story about us marines or from us side and another about japanise soldiers or japan's side of the story. I wonder when they're going to do a Saving Private Ryan/Band of Brothers style movie from the german side...? Okay...enough OT :arrgh!:

[Eichenlaub]

WOW! I would never have expected a Hollywood production showing the Japanese side of the story!

As for a German Band of Brothers type film, I'm not sure whether there is enough public acceptance in society to get away with that. Personally I hope there is. Me and a select group of friends would relish it. There are always at least two sides to a war - any war.
A good solution would be to film a unit that is free of actual war crimes. I believe that is part of the reason why Das Boot was so succesful. I think it would work with JG 26 Schlageter or JV 44. Generally speaking, Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine are surrounded by a lot less controversy than regular Wehrmacht or Waffen SS.

By the way, somewhere around 1991-1993 a German movie was released: Stalingrad. It was more or less a BoB style film in which a handful of German soldiers were followed through the Stalingrad offensive. Since then, CGI has really taken off and a redo would be nice (some of the battle scenes look really coarse now) but as far as the horrors of Stalingrad are concerned, they came across pretty well.

Kind regards,

Eichenlaub