Der Teddy Bar
06-02-06, 08:08 PM
Previously we could approach a convoy with little regard to being detected and worse yet little concern that it had 4 escorts. We could travel up and down the English Channel as if we owned it, or at least had our name on the lease.
We could attack a convoy and resurface and attack it again all before brunch.
The NYGM Tonnage War 2 will go a long way to address these short comings.
The previously visually blind Escort AI will now detect you at greater distances, when at a normal alert condition. Your profile and even your approach speed will go a long way to either you remaining undetected or in you getting detected.
While improving the daytime distances we have also reduced the night time distances that an escort might detect you at.
While improving the Escorts Visual abilities we have in relation to the improved Escort Visual abilities reduced the Merchant Visual abilities especially in regards to the night time. We have done this by adding an additional Visual Sensors for the merchant ships and another for the smaller craft.
As previously mentioned your aspect and speed will play some part in you being or not being detected.
When you show your smallest aspect, bow or stern, then your chances of being detected are reduced. Once you start showing the side aspect of your u-boat the chances of being detected are increased substantially.
For example, if under certain weather conditions you might get detected bow on at 3200 metres when you show your profile that would almost double that distance over 6000 metres.
Speed has also has an impact on your ability to remain undetected. At ahead standard you are at the compromise speed, fast enough to get around and not excessive in allowing you to be detected.
However at flank speed you might be detected at ranges that when at ahead standard you were not. Alternatively at a speed less than 7 knots you might not be detected till much closer or at all.
Elaborating on the new additional Visual Sensors…
- The Merchant Visual Sensor has in comparison the Escorts Visual Sensor a reduced range and capability. The reduced capability is most evident at night.
- The Fishing Vessel Visual Sensor is the same as the Merchant Visual Sensor with reduced range to be in line with the vessels height.
- The Elco Visual Sensor is the same as the Escort Visual Sensor reduced range to be in line with the vessels height.
When the AI goes into a High Alert state the detection ranges will greatly increase as the AI is now actively looking for you. This means that where as previously you might have been able to get within 2000 metres of the ship undetected you might now find that you are being detected at 5000 metres.
The AI can now see your periscope and snorkel. While the detection of these items when the AI is in normal alert mode is very low, when the AI is in a high alert mode the detection of your periscope may occur up to several thousand metres away. Remember, on high alert the escort AI is actively looking for you.
I have no idea how long the AI will stay in High Alert.
Underwater detection has been greatly enhanced with the Glingon Cloaking Device now a thing of the past. That is, ahead slow and silent running will not allow you to sail right up to an escort undetected.
Now to remain undetected by a close by escort will require <2 knots and silent running and if the escort is on high alert, 1 knot and silent running.
ADSIC, the escorts now use it, a lot!
I cannot stress enough, the escorts are not super impossible, they are not all seeing, BUT, they are more effective.
So how was it really? In the video interview with Jurgen Oesten he relays how in 1939 while submerged, inferring that he was just not found due to any previous action, he was detected and attacked by a lone destroyer.
He goes on to say that the destroyer was very accurate and that the destroyer knew exactly where he was. This destroyer gave his u-boat a massive work over with him eventually ending up on the bottom at 134 metres with his u-boat extensively damaged and unable to move. He also relates that the hull was buckled in from a depth charge that also knocked the port diesel engine off it mounts.
It is inferred to have been over many hours possibly in double figures. On the 3rd night they surfaced to find that a trawler had been left there to watch for the u-boat possibly surfacing!
Shallow waters were a very dangerous place for the u-boats, yes there were sound detection difficulties, but compared to deep water, shallow waters were very dangerous.
With the AI now more actively using the ADSIC shallow waters are now very dangerous. It is not impossible to survive 1 maybe 2 escorts with skill and some luck when in shallow waters of 50 metres or less, but more often than not, you will find that it will end tragically.
With ADSIC the key to minimising your chances of detection will be minimising your profile, stern on or bow on is key.
I would like to point out that using speed when appropriate is now as important as staying silent and slow. I am not referring to using speed to avoid depth charges, but using speed to move away from the escorts search area.
Before the NYGM hydro/sonar update it was simply a matter of going slowish and silent running. This is now not enough.
It is now very important to remove yourself from the search area a soon as possible. This can only be done by increasing speed when the escort is in a position not to detect you, i.e. in his baffles or far enough for a small speed increase. This is very hard to judge and requires a lot of attention.
It also requires a cool head as hearing the ping does not always mean that you are nailed, even if the u-boat warning icon goes red. I can confirm that even when the u-boat warning icon goes red and the pinging is driving you up the wall that the escort will at times continue on. This has been confirmed through external view testing. It can be a battle of nerves and speeding up as you are already detected may actually ensure that you are!
I want to stress that the escorts are not all hearing or all seeing and that when you think that you have escaped you may find that sometimes bad luck will find you. For example I had removed myself from the basic search area of the escort (confirmed by external view for testing purposes) and had thought myself to be home and hosed as they say. When the escort was either moving away or changing to a new search area and I was redetected as it pass close by. In the end I did manage to escape, but we must not confuse bad luck with all seeing and all hearing.
What I am trying to say is that the AI is to be respected and that if your game play does not change to a more historical way then you will find yourself in whole lot of pain most of the time.
So if the escort sees you hide as soon as possible and stay hidden for as long as possible.
We could attack a convoy and resurface and attack it again all before brunch.
The NYGM Tonnage War 2 will go a long way to address these short comings.
The previously visually blind Escort AI will now detect you at greater distances, when at a normal alert condition. Your profile and even your approach speed will go a long way to either you remaining undetected or in you getting detected.
While improving the daytime distances we have also reduced the night time distances that an escort might detect you at.
While improving the Escorts Visual abilities we have in relation to the improved Escort Visual abilities reduced the Merchant Visual abilities especially in regards to the night time. We have done this by adding an additional Visual Sensors for the merchant ships and another for the smaller craft.
As previously mentioned your aspect and speed will play some part in you being or not being detected.
When you show your smallest aspect, bow or stern, then your chances of being detected are reduced. Once you start showing the side aspect of your u-boat the chances of being detected are increased substantially.
For example, if under certain weather conditions you might get detected bow on at 3200 metres when you show your profile that would almost double that distance over 6000 metres.
Speed has also has an impact on your ability to remain undetected. At ahead standard you are at the compromise speed, fast enough to get around and not excessive in allowing you to be detected.
However at flank speed you might be detected at ranges that when at ahead standard you were not. Alternatively at a speed less than 7 knots you might not be detected till much closer or at all.
Elaborating on the new additional Visual Sensors…
- The Merchant Visual Sensor has in comparison the Escorts Visual Sensor a reduced range and capability. The reduced capability is most evident at night.
- The Fishing Vessel Visual Sensor is the same as the Merchant Visual Sensor with reduced range to be in line with the vessels height.
- The Elco Visual Sensor is the same as the Escort Visual Sensor reduced range to be in line with the vessels height.
When the AI goes into a High Alert state the detection ranges will greatly increase as the AI is now actively looking for you. This means that where as previously you might have been able to get within 2000 metres of the ship undetected you might now find that you are being detected at 5000 metres.
The AI can now see your periscope and snorkel. While the detection of these items when the AI is in normal alert mode is very low, when the AI is in a high alert mode the detection of your periscope may occur up to several thousand metres away. Remember, on high alert the escort AI is actively looking for you.
I have no idea how long the AI will stay in High Alert.
Underwater detection has been greatly enhanced with the Glingon Cloaking Device now a thing of the past. That is, ahead slow and silent running will not allow you to sail right up to an escort undetected.
Now to remain undetected by a close by escort will require <2 knots and silent running and if the escort is on high alert, 1 knot and silent running.
ADSIC, the escorts now use it, a lot!
I cannot stress enough, the escorts are not super impossible, they are not all seeing, BUT, they are more effective.
So how was it really? In the video interview with Jurgen Oesten he relays how in 1939 while submerged, inferring that he was just not found due to any previous action, he was detected and attacked by a lone destroyer.
He goes on to say that the destroyer was very accurate and that the destroyer knew exactly where he was. This destroyer gave his u-boat a massive work over with him eventually ending up on the bottom at 134 metres with his u-boat extensively damaged and unable to move. He also relates that the hull was buckled in from a depth charge that also knocked the port diesel engine off it mounts.
It is inferred to have been over many hours possibly in double figures. On the 3rd night they surfaced to find that a trawler had been left there to watch for the u-boat possibly surfacing!
Shallow waters were a very dangerous place for the u-boats, yes there were sound detection difficulties, but compared to deep water, shallow waters were very dangerous.
With the AI now more actively using the ADSIC shallow waters are now very dangerous. It is not impossible to survive 1 maybe 2 escorts with skill and some luck when in shallow waters of 50 metres or less, but more often than not, you will find that it will end tragically.
With ADSIC the key to minimising your chances of detection will be minimising your profile, stern on or bow on is key.
I would like to point out that using speed when appropriate is now as important as staying silent and slow. I am not referring to using speed to avoid depth charges, but using speed to move away from the escorts search area.
Before the NYGM hydro/sonar update it was simply a matter of going slowish and silent running. This is now not enough.
It is now very important to remove yourself from the search area a soon as possible. This can only be done by increasing speed when the escort is in a position not to detect you, i.e. in his baffles or far enough for a small speed increase. This is very hard to judge and requires a lot of attention.
It also requires a cool head as hearing the ping does not always mean that you are nailed, even if the u-boat warning icon goes red. I can confirm that even when the u-boat warning icon goes red and the pinging is driving you up the wall that the escort will at times continue on. This has been confirmed through external view testing. It can be a battle of nerves and speeding up as you are already detected may actually ensure that you are!
I want to stress that the escorts are not all hearing or all seeing and that when you think that you have escaped you may find that sometimes bad luck will find you. For example I had removed myself from the basic search area of the escort (confirmed by external view for testing purposes) and had thought myself to be home and hosed as they say. When the escort was either moving away or changing to a new search area and I was redetected as it pass close by. In the end I did manage to escape, but we must not confuse bad luck with all seeing and all hearing.
What I am trying to say is that the AI is to be respected and that if your game play does not change to a more historical way then you will find yourself in whole lot of pain most of the time.
So if the escort sees you hide as soon as possible and stay hidden for as long as possible.