NYGM U-Boat Mod & No Damage Control Mod for NYGM TW 2.0

[Der Teddy Bar]

These two separate items are inseparable when attempting to produce a more realistic experience.

The idea for the NYGM No Damage Control Mod was gouldjg’s. It was his request for this that prompted me to search out a way to stop the use of the Damage Control team for certain compartments. Now, the Damage Control Team can only be used for the crew quarters, the conning tower & AA/Deck guns. All damage for a compartment must be done by the men within that compartment. We have also moved the repair (only) of the batteries from the crew quarters to the bow torpedo room. The only times that you will have a use for the Damage Control Team is for flooding of the crew quarters or for external repairs.

The NYGM U-boat mod includes…
The Anti-Humming Bird mod
The redesigned zone size and locations
New damage & flood values
External repairs for external itemsThe Anti-Humming Bird mod is where at speeds of 0 knots you will slowly sink, at speeds of 1 knot you can maintain depth but not change to a lesser depth. To change depth you need speeds of 2+ knots.

We have redesigned the u-boat damage zones to historical size and location from u-boat plans so that damage is better represented. As we have made so many other fundamental changes we also could not for example, just slot in the excellent Hollywood u-boat mod. NYGM is building upon the work previously done by others. Without this work we would have had to start from scratch.

We have for example reduced the fore crew quarters from being the same size as the fore torpedo room to the size of the sonar/radio room. We have reduced the size of the engine damage zones while at the same time moving them further inside the u-boat. With the resizing of the torpedo tubes it is now possible to have the torpedo tube damaged and not have the torpedo room damaged, or vice versa.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/7187/nygmuboatmod5ir.jpg

New damage & flood values have been done as to make flooding occur less often but when if does occur because of the No Damage Control Mod the effects are amplified greatly. It will now take longer to bring the flooding under control and also a lot longer to pump the water out. We have also armoured up the external items to make the possibility of damage such that only a depth charge exploding on top of the item at near maximum HP will damage/destroy it.

External repairs for external items. Previously any item that was not attached to the conning tower could be repaired while submerged. This is not longer the case. The torpedo tubes now will require you to be surfaced to be repaired.

We have also changed the Crash Speed. Crash Speed is how many HP’s are lost per second in certain situations, one being when below maximum depth the other is when colliding with land or another ship. I don’t believe this is a new idea, I am sure someone has done this previously.

HP reduction with these crash speeds would be 0.10 = 1 HP reduction 10 seconds or 0.16 minutes = 10 HP per 1 minute 39 seconds.

For a u-boat that had 60 HP’s left, that would work out to be 9 minutes 54 seconds so no instant deaths and excessive damage incurred quickly.

In a recent depth charge attack I was extensively damaged, I had tried to go deeper than the current 80 metres when as I reached 90 metres I started to get damage warnings and glass breaking etc indicating that I am going past my new maximum depth allowing me to order a new depth and still live to fight.

[Ducimus]

Overall sounds like a fun package. I really like the zone reworking, that's intriuging, and sounds like a very positive change.


I have to say though, 0.10? and here i thought i was being generious with 0.5.:88)

edit:
Forgot to ask, obviously its going to be bunded with NYGM, but will there be a seperate, standalone version as well?

[THE_MASK]

One suggestion . Can you not use the dark blue writing in your posts . I cannot see it .

[Der Teddy Bar]

Forgot to ask, obviously its going to be bunded with NYGM, but will there be a seperate, standalone version as well? We will be discussing what can and cannot be done as a modlet after the NYGM TW 2.0 release.

For what can and cannot be done we must consider mod crossover issues and of what unrelated mod might need to be bundled into something else.

There is also the time required that could be better spent elsewhere, such as the Coastal Command Mod.

So while we will, if considered practical, release NYGM modlets, there is no promise that any of the NYGM TW 2.0 will be released as a modlet.

[JScones]

One suggestion . Can you not use the dark blue writing in your posts . I cannot see it .
Was just about to write the exact same thing!

Yes DTB, the blue clashes with the "Admin Blue" and "SmartDark" schemes.

And before someone else points it out, I know I can select/highlight the text to make it easier to read. ;)

[Yahoshua]

Sounds wonderful Herr Teddy Bar.:D

[supersloth]

cant wait to try out the new anti humming bird mode:up:

[Myxale]

Can't wait to have all of NYGM 2.0
:rock:

[lurker_hlb3]

Do you plan to provide the hex "offsteps" for AI_Sensor.dat or any other "binary" based files you are changing or adding to??? Since I use SH3 Commander, it would like to know so I can make changes as need.

[Der Teddy Bar]

Do you plan to provide the hex "offsteps" for AI_Sensor.dat or any other "binary" based files you are changing or adding to??? Since I use SH3 Commander, it would like to know so I can make changes as need. We use the NYGM SHIII Tool. I couldn't use a hex editor to do anything even on the promise of a date with Lauren Graham.

What is it you want to know?

[lurker_hlb3]

We use the NYGM SHIII Tool. I couldn't use a hex editor to do anything even on the promise of a date with Lauren Graham.

What is it you want to know?


1.I don’t plan to use a hex editor on your files

2.The requested information is based on a number post where you state that your going to make changes / additions to AI_sensor.dat and other files in support of NGYM 2.0

3.I use SH3 Commander 2.5/2.6 which has the capability of changing text/binary files.

4.Some of the files that you are going to change, I also change with SH3 Commander.

5.I just would like to known the hex “offsets” of the changes/additions are to save time when I mod some of the “rules” files in TimeTravelers “SH3 Mini Tweaker” for my own uses.

6.Other Mod maker may also like to have the information.

[XXi]

Excellent news, Herr Teddy Bear !
Even though that line about no damage control seem to be hard for me. But, anyway...
AS for the blue text: you can highlight it and it becomes visible again. Perhaps not the best method, but still some way to handle.

[gouldjg]

I can imagine many players feeling a little queezy about the potential no damage control but I personally think the benefits of it far outweighs the negatives.

In every compartment except the crew rest areas, the men will automatically start to do repairs but these now take much longer as they no longer have uber repairs by adding a damage control team which usually does the job in 45 seconds.

Now I have no idea how NYGM have implemented their number systems but I do feel confident that they have considered all the hit points and flooding factors so the player can still maintain a sense of control. I think DT and Observer have done a excelent job with this butI am biased for my own reasons:lol: .

Personally I would much rather see repairs lasting 10-15 minutes than 45 seconds max.

[Hawk U-375]

Personally I would much rather see repairs lasting 10-15 minutes than 45 seconds max.


Me too........:yep:

[Myxale]

I can imagine many players feeling a little queezy about the potential no damage control but I personally think the benefits of it far outweighs the negatives.

In every compartment except the crew rest areas, the men will automatically start to do repairs but these now take much longer as they no longer have uber repairs by adding a damage control team which usually does the job in 45 seconds.

Now I have no idea how NYGM have implemented their number systems but I do feel confident that they have considered all the hit points and flooding factors so the player can still maintain a sense of control. I think DT and Observer have done a excelent job with this butI am biased for my own reasons:lol: .

Personally I would much rather see repairs lasting 10-15 minutes than 45 seconds max.

Agreed! There are things that simply can't be done in 45 seconds!
It's far from gamey! That's how it should be in the first place. Flooding through a broken Pappenberg can be fixed quickly by closing the valve that leads to it. But not everything is that simple!
I wouldn't even mind damage that takes hours! :dead::hmm::up:

[Sailor Steve]

One suggestion . Can you not use the dark blue writing in your posts . I cannot see it .
If you highlight the dark blue with your mouse it shows up as white-very easy to read.

I wouldn't even mind damage that takes hours! :dead::hmm::up:
I'll second that sentiment.

[Der Teddy Bar]

The current setup is solid which realitically will need refinement based upon user feedback as getting depth charged just right is such a hard thing to do, I mean it is either no real damage all or 10 depth charges at once! :rotfl:

As a result of removal the Humming Bird affect your u-boat will also now be more effected by flooding which will make it a more serious issue.

What I have found is that I am unable to leave a compartment partially flooded as I have previously had been. Resulting in longer periods of non silent running and possibly at increased speeds which when coupled with the Hydro/Sonar changes means more chance of detection/re-detection.

[Myxale]

Hey Teddy, but there is still a amount of flooding you can take till the tendency shows right? :hmm:
And you still can have a compartment partially flooded without sinking like a stone or?
:hmm:

[Der Teddy Bar]

Hey Teddy, but there is still a amount of flooding you can take till the tendency shows right? :hmm:
And you still can have a compartment partially flooded without sinking like a stone or?
:hmm:
Yes to all the above.

However with a partially flooded compartment you may not be able to maintain depth with a speed of ~1 knot.

Why this is important to know is we now have a Hydrophone setup that has removed the U-boats Klingon Invisibility Cloak when at 3knots and Silent Running.

Silent running is now only effecting at <2 knots.

This is of course relative to the distance that you are from the escort.

[Der Teddy Bar]

Bump for picture update...

[Totenkopf]

Recently I suffered a DC attack that left me flooding in the forward Torpedo room. The sub sunk nose first to the ocean floor (luckily it was shallow). After repairing the damage (only the hydrophones were destroyed) I made attempt to move on. Only the sub handled as if the compartment was still flooded. I had to move at 6 kts to gain any rise, where anything less to 2 kts kept me level and below 2, I sank.

My query is 2 fold. First, is flooding incremental as any in, any previous flooding impares current flooding till you can't surface no matter how fast you go? Evidence would show that flooding modifiers stick to the negative boyance even after a repair.

Also, when repairing, I noticed the repair time only reduced when I placed crew in the compartment that increased the relevant efficiency of that compartment only, ie. Torpedo qualified crew in the torp room, or helm in control etc. So the relevancy of repairs in a specific compartment is based on the compartments efficiency and NOT the repair efficiency of any repair qualified crew IN it?

Please clarify.

[Der Teddy Bar]

Recently I suffered a DC attack that left me flooding in the forward Torpedo room. The sub sunk nose first to the ocean floor (luckily it was shallow). After repairing the damage (only the hydrophones were destroyed) I made attempt to move on. Only the sub handled as if the compartment was still flooded. I had to move at 6 kts to gain any rise, where anything less to 2 kts kept me level and below 2, I sank.

My query is 2 fold. First, is flooding incremental as any in, any previous flooding impares current flooding till you can't surface no matter how fast you go? Evidence would show that flooding modifiers stick to the negative boyance even after a repair. During our testing of the Anti-Humming Bird zone we have seen a behavior that was initially hard to understand due to not being able to get the behaviour to occur consistantly and because of not being able to control how and where the u-boat was damaged.

The behavior was that the u-boat was not able to maintain depth at 1-2 knots after being damaged but with no apparent flooding.

The answer is I believe that there was some flooding but it was below the % required to be displayed. I have come to this answer come via the 'damage_#.cfg files and an entry there that specified "icon damage till 30 %"...

So even when an item is damaged if it is not over a certain value it will not show up as damaged.

What was happening was that the u-boat was partially flooded and it would slowly sink.

In my testing when I moved men, or extra men into the various compartments that have been damaged it was my interpretation of the results the the men, or additional men, did 'repair' the hidden flooding.


Also, when repairing, I noticed the repair time only reduced when I placed crew in the compartment that increased the relevant efficiency of that compartment only, ie. Torpedo qualified crew in the torp room, or helm in control etc. So the relevancy of repairs in a specific compartment is based on the compartments efficiency and NOT the repair efficiency of any repair qualified crew IN it?

Please clarify. Repair times have always been linked to compartment efficiency. So when the electric engine room is damaged it is advisiable to add additional or better rested crew.

I will investigate the effects of the repair qualified personel when in a damaged compartment. I might need some feedback from non modified players regarding how it does or does not work for them

[Myxale]

Lo NYGM Guys, why moving the Batteries into the torpedo room?:hmm:

[CB..]

use a mine---then you can launch it your self and ram it with the u-boat--back into it and the rear of the sub will take damage--head into it normally and the front of the sub will take damage---place it at depth and submerge onto it and mid sections will take damage--

edit the amount of damage the mine does and you can use it for some reasoanably straight froward quick easy damage testing lol...had to be use-full for summat lol

[Der Teddy Bar]

use a mine---then you can launch it your self and ram it with the u-boat--back into it and the rear of the sub will take damage--head into it normally and the front of the sub will take damage---place it at depth and submerge onto it and mid sections will take damage--

edit the amount of damage the mine does and you can use it for some reasoanably straight froward quick easy damage testing lol...had to be use-full for summat lol Thankyou!!! that is a brilliant idea... :up:

[Myxale]

I just need a few hints from the NYGM guys. Lately i start to take closer looks at the whole files that SH3 and and the mods come with. Please don't let ME start modding:doh:

On one of my SH3 installs i have the NYGM 2.0 and I'm messin' with it to learn more!

I noticed that the batteries moved more towards the bow.
How can you move/assing the said machines or elements of the Boot to another compartment?
A few pointer in the right direction and I'll bugger off!

[U-Bones]

I just need a few hints from the NYGM guys. Lately i start to take closer looks at the whole files that SH3 and and the mods come with. Please don't let ME start modding:doh:

On one of my SH3 installs i have the NYGM 2.0 and I'm messin' with it to learn more!

I noticed that the batteries moved more towards the bow.
How can you move/assing the said machines or elements of the Boot to another compartment?
A few pointer in the right direction and I'll bugger off!
I moved them like this... the example is in basic.cfg under the [SUBMARINE1];typevii section
You may want address it in the other subs types as well
=====================
Original NYGM 2.0
=====================
Comp5=5; BowTorpedo
Nb5=3
Subs50=Hydrophones_Receivers
Hydrophones_Receivers=43;E_Hydrophones_Receivers
TimeRecovery50=1
Subs51=ForwardBatteries
ForwardBatteries=16; E_ForwardBatteries
TimeRecovery51=3
Subs52=AftBatteries
AftBatteries=17; E_AftBatteries
TimeRecovery52=3

Comp6=6; BowQuarters
Nb6=0

Comp7=7; SternQuarters
Nb7=0
=============================
Changed to
=============================
Comp5=5; BowTorpedo
Nb5=1
Subs50=Hydrophones_Receivers
Hydrophones_Receivers=43;E_Hydrophones_Receivers
TimeRecovery50=1

Comp6=6; BowQuarters
Nb6=1
Subs60=ForwardBatteries
ForwardBatteries=16; E_ForwardBatteries
TimeRecovery60=3

Comp7=7; SternQuarters
Nb7=1
Subs70=AftBatteries
AftBatteries=17; E_AftBatteries
TimeRecovery70=3
======================

One of my main reasons I did this is that it gives the poor Damage Control team something to do while submerged. I agree wholeheartedly with moving some items to surfaced stations to prevent submerged repairs, but nerfing DC beyond that I have issues with. Given the Longer Repairs testing I have been doing, I am starting to hate the leash on the DC Team. I think freeing them to do their job is the next thing on my list...

Edit: I guess I should specify that I am not part of the NYGM team for clarity, given how you addressed the question.

[Myxale]

"Thanx Bones" (hee that sounded like Cpt. Kirk:rock:) anyway..thank you for those examples.:yep:
After lookin' over them i start to understand how this all works.
I'm also runnin' some tests on the floodin thing! And beside 3 of 5 tests always left my boot with broken batteries after some close DC's!

Disclaimer:
I understand that U-Bones is not part of the NYGM Team, or somwhow related to DR.McCoy!:88)

[CCIP]

Just to note, the compartment where the part is listed has absolutely NOTHING to do with the location of the item.

The batteries are in the torpedo room only for damage control purposes. Their actual location is still completely where they ought to be!

[U-Bones]

Just to note, the compartment where the part is listed has absolutely NOTHING to do with the location of the item.

The batteries are in the torpedo room only for damage control purposes. Their actual location is still completely where they ought to be!
Understood, that (actual location) is enumerated in zones.cfg

[Myxale]

Once more i learned something! :yep:
But cool anyway to be able to see the item listed in the right compartment!:hmm: Or to know how this works!

I just finished a night worth of messing around with one of my SH3 Installs! And i gotta say i have the utmost respect for you modding guru's.
I took the NYGM 2.0 files apart to learn more, and i got humbled buy the sheer numbers of...well numbers! All i want now is to sleep!
Moddin' SH3 ain't a easy thing, huh. May other games make is look easier!

Kudos, to you Guys!

[Der Teddy Bar]

Just to note, the compartment where the part is listed has absolutely NOTHING to do with the location of the item.

The batteries are in the torpedo room only for damage control purposes. Their actual location is still completely where they ought to be!
Understood, that (actual location) is enumerated in zones.cfg Actually the location & size are specified by the UnitName.zon file and not the zones.cfg.

NYGM can edit any UnitName.zon file and move, resize, delete, add zones for all units in SHIII.



I hope this helps.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/7187/nygmuboatmod5ir.jpg

[U-Bones]

Perhaps I should have said logical location instead of actual...

For example a dc explodes on your nose, the BowTorpedo Damage Zone has proximity and I assume is mapped to the bow compartment in zones.cfg, where bowtorpedotune2 is listed as a child and thus receives a chance for damage. because the tube is listed with the tower in basic.cfg (but still mapped back to the correct entry in zones.cfg, where it is a child of the bow), it is not repairable with the bow, but from the tower when surfaced. This (parent in zones.cfg) is the location I was refering to. For the most part, components stop at zones.cfg, and inherit their proximity to damage locations from their parent compartment in zones.cfg. I know there are obvious exceptions like Batterys and Fuel, in addition to the major compartments.

I know you know all this better than me, but I'm just clarifying what I meant to say - which is correct if taken in the context of what we were discussing. Unless I'm wrong, of course ;)

As always, thanks for your patient explanations.

[Der Teddy Bar]

Perhaps I should have said logical location instead of actual...

For example a dc explodes on your nose, the BowTorpedo Damage Zone has proximity and I assume is mapped to the bow compartment in zones.cfg, where bowtorpedotune2 is listed as a child and thus receives a chance for damage. because the tube is listed with the tower in basic.cfg (but still mapped back to the correct entry in zones.cfg, where it is a child of the bow), it is not repairable with the bow, but from the tower when surfaced. This (parent in zones.cfg) is the location I was refering to. For the most part, components stop at zones.cfg, and inherit their proximity to damage locations from their parent compartment in zones.cfg. I know there are obvious exceptions like Batterys and Fuel, in addition to the major compartments.

I know you know all this better than me, but I'm just clarifying what I meant to say - which is correct if taken in the context of what we were discussing. Unless I'm wrong, of course ;)

As always, thanks for your patient explanations. The possibility of damage is purely worked out on the zones proximity to the depth charge or shell. It is my understanding that the Father/Child relationship only for the repair part of the damage system in SHIII.

The Father/Child values in the zones.cfg also in a lot of instances have some hard coded component elsewhere. So while some Father relationships will be able to be broken most will result in immediate destruction of the item upon loading.

When NYGM re-zoned the u-boat, making the compartment zones more accurate in size and location, we also resized and relocated all the internal damage zones for the, Torpedo tubes, the diesel engines, the electric engines, the pumps, the bold, the sonar, the hydrophone and others.

With the torpedo tubes resized we now have a lot of times where the torpedo compartment will be severly damaged and a torpedo tube will not. Other times the torpedo tube can be destroyed without damage to the torpedo compartment. It is of course possible to have both damaged by the one depth charge.

I hope that I understood your post and that this helps.

[U-Bones]

Perhaps I should have said logical location instead of actual...

For example a dc explodes on your nose, the BowTorpedo Damage Zone has proximity and I assume is mapped to the bow compartment in zones.cfg, where bowtorpedotune2 is listed as a child and thus receives a chance for damage. because the tube is listed with the tower in basic.cfg (but still mapped back to the correct entry in zones.cfg, where it is a child of the bow), it is not repairable with the bow, but from the tower when surfaced. This (parent in zones.cfg) is the location I was refering to. For the most part, components stop at zones.cfg, and inherit their proximity to damage locations from their parent compartment in zones.cfg. I know there are obvious exceptions like Batterys and Fuel, in addition to the major compartments.

I know you know all this better than me, but I'm just clarifying what I meant to say - which is correct if taken in the context of what we were discussing. Unless I'm wrong, of course ;)

As always, thanks for your patient explanations. The possibility of damage is purely worked out on the zones proximity to the depth charge or shell. It is my understanding that the Father/Child relationship only for the repair part of the damage system in SHIII.

The Father/Child values in the zones.cfg also in a lot of instances have some hard coded component elsewhere. So while some Father relationships will be able to be broken most will result in immediate destruction of the item upon loading.

When NYGM re-zoned the u-boat, making the compartment zones more accurate in size and location, we also resized and relocated all the internal damage zones for the, Torpedo tubes, the diesel engines, the electric engines, the pumps, the bold, the sonar, the hydrophone and others.

With the torpedo tubes resized we now have a lot of times where the torpedo compartment will be severly damaged and a torpedo tube will not. Other times the torpedo tube can be destroyed without damage to the torpedo compartment. It is of course possible to have both damaged by the one depth charge.

I hope that I understood your post and that this helps.

You understood that I needed clarification. :up::rotfl:

[U-Bones]

OK here is a suprise. Having the Rudders and Tubes attached to Watch Tower, prevents you repairing them by staffing the watchtower while submerged.

But if they take damage...

The bow and stern will show damage. (even when everything local has been repaired). OK kinda expected.

If you staff the bow and stern well enough... and wait long enough... they solve the problems with the tubes and rudders. If you assign DC crew, it happens faster.

You don't get feedback on the time to repair.... but they do get attention.

Interesting, unexpected, and kinda cool.

[Totenkopf]

I will investigate the effects of the repair qualified personel when in a damaged compartment.

Much obliged for your response and efforts into the matter DTB, thanks for all your hard work!:up: