One for all and thats that visually

[Der Teddy Bar]

The AI Visual is somewhat lacking to the extent that you have to be within about 3000 metres or less on a perfect day to be seen by the escorts while travelling at flank speed.

An unrealistic situation.

This can be fixed, where an escort for example may, on a perfect day see you at around 7000 metres and 4600 with 10mps winds. Note, these are work in progress examples for this example and are not final figures etc

BUT...

So will a merchant.

I feel that the need to address the escorts blindness overides the empowering of the merchant.

Whats your view?

[Der Teddy Bar]

these are not final figures and what effects the night time values also effects the daytime ones. For a clear day we have for example...

For 0mps Day = 6700 & Night = 2900
For 10mps Day = 4600 & Night = 1900
For 15mps Day = 3200 & Night = 1200

Are these reasonable? Too much?

[Salvadoreno]

That sounds right, good figures to me.. Maybe the escorts can even see farther, but can you randomize how far they can see to simulate slacking off/fatigue so we can have that "uncertainty" i know you love :).

p.s Is this the workings of a new NYGM 2.0?? Do you know how far along you are? I JUST finished my last final and lookign foward to a summer of WAWII, NYGM 2.0, and SH3 all day long :rock: .. i just have to avoid annoying freinds and a gf.

[booger2005]

:rotfl:

Why bother asking. Your pole question is so biased, I think you've already made your decision anyway, whether you realize it or not. ;)

But, if you want my opinion, it should be left alone. Keep in mind that the player is limited at best to the 16 km atmosphere mod. I would think a 10000 ton tanker billowing smoke would be more than twice as visible as the low riding uboat. You spot it at about 14K, and then it spots you at 7 doesn't give a lot of wiggle room. Taking advantage of the low profile of the uboat and screening a convoy outside of its visible distance was a legitimate uboat tactic even in fair weather, right?

[Myxale]

Teddy give us the better seeing' AI! :rock:
Your figures make sense...more than me an' my Boot undetected on 4000m on an nice day!

[gouldjg]

DT

Is this for 16k or 8k world?

Have you managed to balance it so a night surface attack is still ok or are they out of the window now?

I say go for it and thanks :up:

[Der Teddy Bar]

DT

Is this for 16k or 8k world?

Have you managed to balance it so a night surface attack is still ok or are they out of the window now?

I say go for it and thanks :up:
This is with the 16k world.

At the moment I am just mapping out the hundreds of different Sim.ini cobinations against the many wind condition vs night and day. In the end, I hope to reach a compromise on the night attacks.

The persiscope has been my starting point, it is my intention to make the extended 3 metres above the water while at flank as suicide choice. I hope to have it so you will require to use minimum scope and for short periods.

More to follow...

[gouldjg]

DT

Is this for 16k or 8k world?

Have you managed to balance it so a night surface attack is still ok or are they out of the window now?

I say go for it and thanks :up:
This is with the 16k world.

At the moment I am just mapping out the hundreds of different Sim.ini cobinations against the many wind condition vs night and day. In the end, I hope to reach a compromise on the night attacks.

The persiscope has been my starting point, it is my intention to make the extended 3 metres above the water while at flank as suicide choice. I hope to have it so you will require to use minimum scope and for short periods.

More to follow...

Yep, I like that option on the periscope. There is nothing worse that having a fully extended periscope on a calm day and not being spotted.

Good luck, I know it is a long testing game

[Woof1701]

Hello TeddyBär. I really appreciate your hard work since that feature annoys the hell out of me. Just a few things to think about:

Reports state than in early WW2 many uboats attacking at night with overcast sky and light fog, routinely entered the convoy, let loose all tubes and then left to reload - sometimes even on the surface without being detected. This would mean the merchants couldn't detect the tiny silhouette of the boat even at distances below 1000 meters! When you consider spacing of convoy lanes around 800 to 1000 meters and imagine a boat in the middle, even at 500 they weren't detected.
As soon as the first freighter lit up there would've been enough light to pinpoint the uboat from star shells, search lights and possibly a burning ship. Still many managed to leave unscathed.

So what would the figures look like on a moonless night and in light fog?
The figures for a moonlit night sound about right for me. It seems in reality it was hard to spot a boat with a little illumination but not impossible. However I believe in a pitch black moonless night you'd have no chance in hell to spot a uboat's silhouette at 3 kilometers when it only rises three meters above the surf and is less than 2 meters wide (bow/aft). Even a uboat could run by a 50.000 ton passenger liner at a few kilometers distance without seeing it. They should have heard him on hydrophone though ;-)

[don1reed]

I agree with, Woof1701, that wx conditions plus merchant lookout alertness play major roles here; but, it appears, Teddy, is being very conservative with his daytime distances:

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/2937/dxtohorizon3sc.th.jpg (http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dxtohorizon3sc.jpg)

It's a dang difficult task to please everyone; however, with JSGME we can easily use his mod or not. I'd like to try it. :up:

cheers,

[Sailor Steve]

I too, would like them to see better in the daylight, worse at night.

[Der Teddy Bar]

I too, would like them to see better in the daylight, worse at night.
Unfortunately what makes for better detection during the day also carries over into the night.

For example, this is the result when testing what a specific value contributed to the detection range... Number=Value; D=Day; N=Night
0.01; D=6000; N=6000
0.25; D=5900; N=3700
0.50; D=5000; N=2400
0.75; D=4000; N=1900
1.00; D=3500; N=1600
2.00; D=2300; N=1100

I would love to move the day time detection ranges for a perfect day out to 9000 metres...

Also medium cloud, reported as partial cloud, makes no difference on the AI's detection ability.

The end result will be a compromise, how much is yet to be determined.

Hopefully SHIV will have a set of Visual values for the merchant ships.

[Der Teddy Bar]

Yep, I like that option on the periscope. There is nothing worse that having a fully extended periscope on a calm day and not being spotted.

Good luck, I know it is a long testing game
Thanks.

I have yet to test the snorkel, but I expect that you will also not be able to use this with impunity as currently is the case.

[Der Teddy Bar]

So what would the figures look like on a moonless night and in light fog?
The figures for a moonlit night sound about right for me. It seems in reality it was hard to spot a boat with a little illumination but not impossible. However I believe in a pitch black moonless night you'd have no chance in hell to spot a uboat's silhouette at 3 kilometers when it only rises three meters above the surf and is less than 2 meters wide (bow/aft). Even a uboat could run by a 50.000 ton passenger liner at a few kilometers distance without seeing it. They should have heard him on hydrophone though ;-)
Though I have mapped out the contributing effects on the fog defaults I am yet to test the fog values with the various changes to date.

Currently the testing centres around day/night and wind speeds of 5, 10 & 15.

From there I will then start all over again doing the same for the fog and then again for the rain.

Of note, the game does not take into account night time light conditions or partial cloud cover, no moon/full moon, no cloud/partial cloud is all the same to the game.

My tests show that the fog value of 0.01 has the same result as, 0.25, 0.50, 0.75,1.00, 1.5, 2.00 and so on. As such, the previous changes from 1 to 2 as far as I can tell did not achieve anything. I would be happy if someone proved me wrong, come on, I dare ya :rotfl:

[Der Teddy Bar]

don1reed,
Thanks for the figures.