Who else has stealth bombers?

[Deathblow]

*[FOX]* Bort's post (http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=51779) got me thinking... Do you think that other countries have developed their own version of the stealth fighter (F117 counterpart) or B2 bomber by now?

The basics of the technology have been known to the public for about 15 years now (since the first Gulf War unveiling of the F117 and even longer when you think of the B2) )than that by radar manufacturers. Flat sides to deflect radar waves and radar-absorbant material to absorb the rest. Doesn't seem like the theory behind it is too much of a mystery and other should be able to design a steath plane on paper at least. We're certainly seening the basic principles of stealth being implemented across many platforms, but how what about the design of a soley steath platform designed to for undetectability as its primary design constraint like the F117?

If so who?...If not, why not...

...Is it only a matter of affordability, with the $120 million apiece price tag as well as the research and development cost still not worth it to most other militaries? Maybe compounded by lack of a industry base that could construct such a craft in reasonable numbers with all its material requirements and necessary construction techniques? and design consproduce the needed materials in enough quantities, and infrastructure needed to develope and construct need be in place, but surely someone else has duplicated the systems.

Personally.... I haven't decided yet. I'm certain that all militaries have a stealth bomber finished on paper... but to whether its been built... :hmm:

[Kapitan]

Well russia has tried and has a few designs but not much also Britian has a few plans but other than that i dont know.

[Sailor Steve]

If they're truly stealthy, how would we know?

[mapuc]

Sweden haven't got any stealth bombers like the B2-Spirit. We have got some stealth vessel like the HMS Visby

http://www.marinnytt.mil.se/images/local/visby1stor.jpg

Markus

[Deathblow]

Sweden haven't got any stealth bombers like the B2-Spirit. We have got some stealth vessel like the HMS Visby

http://www.marinnytt.mil.se/images/local/visby1stor.jpg

Markus

Oooooooo Cool :|\ Thats a spiffy looking ship. No AAW capability? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visby_class_corvette

[Deathblow]

If they're truly stealthy, how would we know?

We don't. :roll: That's the point of the poll, to see what people think. :know:

[NeonSamurai]

I like pretty colors! :rock:

Well the main reason is the price tag, the b2's go for at least a couple billion each. RnD costs run in the multi billions. Stealth aircraft are super expensive to develope and make and most countries dont wana put that kind of money into such a specialized vehicle.

Also the Fighter designation for the F-117 is totaly wrong, its not a fighter, never was designed as a fighter, cant act like a fighter, and heck cant even engage other aircraft with anything other then mean thoughts. it should have been A-117 or B-117. Though they didnt want to call it B because most other aircraft with the B designation are all big :P, and A doesnt quite work as the 117 doesnt generaly attack tanks and similar military ground targets, usualy just buildings. So instead they went with F which is something it doesnt do at all :P Maybe they should have called it SSB-117 or small stealth bomber :-j but then they might get mixed up with the navy sub designations.

[Deathblow]

I like pretty colors! :rock:
Sweet! Me too! :rock: :up:
Well the main reason is the price tag, the b2's go for at least a couple billion each.

:o ... wow... you know, I didn't realize that those B2s were running in the billion dollar range, I always assumed they were about around hundreads of million range. Learn something new everyday. http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/systems/b-2-specs.htm

[CCIP]

I think that depends on the definition of "stealth". :hmm:

Frankly, it's possible that there will be other types of "stealth" than funny shapes and bucketloads of RAM on the wings. :yep:

[TLAM Strike]

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/9205/vorchaandkvortclass0id.jpg
You pathetic humans have much to learn about stealth... ;)

[Godalmighty83]

perhaps the reason for the lack of stealth craft is how unsuccesful its often percieved.

theres no such thing as true stealth, only 'harder to see'.

[Kapitan]

There is no such thing as a true stealth jet, all them funny sides do not eliminate its radar picture it just makes it smaller and harder to see.

[STEED]

Show me a 100% stealth plane and I will buy you a drink. :smug:

[Torplexed]

Show me a 100% stealth plane and I will buy you a drink. :smug:

How about Wonder Women's Invisible Jet? I saw it on teevee so it must be real. Where's my drink? A Mountain Dew will do. :yep:

http://zioxville.homestead.com/files/WWplane.JPG

[STEED]

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Best laugh I had all day :up: the drinks in the post. ;)

[Egan]

I've got a cupboard full of them, the buggers. They shimmey in all invisible like and start roosting. Keep stealth bombing my socks and everything. Mothballs don't work because they can't see them, which is no good to me.

It's almost as bad as when the bathroom was full of U-boats. Kept me awake for nights on end with their squaking 'Tiperraray'. Got the plumber out. He just looked down the plughole and said 'There's your problem mate, it's full of U-boats.' Oh thank you very much....I paid 50 quid for that adivce. Said the only way to get rid of them was a couple of depth charges but the neighbours would probably not be happy. Eventually a stray Johnny Walker got in there and ate them all so it worked out alright in the end although we had to take the sink apart to get rid of all the periscopes which your common or garden Johnny Walker can't digest ( so he just spits them out. )

Anyways. I've got heaps of Stealth bombers which you can have if you want and they are all free. You'll have to catch them though.

[Oberon]

http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/images/purestealth.jpg

Anyway, you Klingon Verruls, who do you think you got those cloaking devices from? Let me show you the true emperors of stealth!

http://homepage2.nifty.com/weva/trekpage/RW01.JPG


And as for other countries having stealth? Well, the idea is sound and workable, the materials are the problem...I dare say Russia has perhaps a prototype that might be operational sometime in the next century, maybe China's working on something too.

[Deathblow]

theres no such thing as true stealth, only 'harder to see'.

I call flying over one of the most radar sensor dense cities in the middle east "true stealth" :)

True stealth is when you are not detected by an opponent whose sensors are trying to detect you. Bottom line. Its a result, not a characteristic. The techniques to achieve"true stealth" will vary versus the system that is trying to detect it.

Everyone has got to try to be a smarty pants. :roll: Of course there's no such thing as a 100%-purely-undectable-by-any-sensor-at-any-range-in-any-condition-stealth. :roll:

[Godalmighty83]

this didnt help any

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/monitoring/306611.stm

i would take manouvrable fast jets dedicated in design to there function other planes with compromised design fighting a losing war with detection methods.

just my view.

[XabbaRus]

British Aerospace did build its own stealth fighter, actually more like the F-22 if you saw pictures of it but a bit smaller and I'd say better looking.

It wasn't a fully functional fighter but used for testing Low Observable design and construction. Pictures were in Flight International last year.

Apparently the MoD financed some of it so BAe definately has stealth experience and technology.

I think the whole point of making it was to ensure that if necessary we could build a low observable combat aircraft independent of the US. The new UK UCAV is very stealth oriented.

What I see in the US seems to be the idea that stealth is a panacea. The F-22 may well be the pinacle of fighter design and the stealth characteristics are great in theory in that when all is tucked up inside you can see first and shoot first and get detected later, but for the F-22 to also fulfill a meaningful attack role it will have to carry payload under the wings. They may have developed lower RCS pylons and bomb holders but still a compromise.

I guess we will see.

[TLAM Strike]

Anyway, you Klingon Verruls, who do you think you got those cloaking devices from? Let me show you the true emperors of stealth!

http://homepage2.nifty.com/weva/trekpage/RW01.JPG Bahh, you treacherous green blooded Vulcan cast offs probably stole them from the Breen. Don't forget where you got your battlecruisers!
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6051/d7battlecruiser2dm.jpg

Not that eather help you at Klach D'Kel Brakt! :rock:

[Skybird]

Be a stealth bomber yourself. Hit the other so fast that he does not see it coming! :D

[Ishmael]

Show me a 100% stealth plane and I will buy you a drink. :smug:

How about Wonder Women's Invisible Jet? I saw it on teevee so it must be real. Where's my drink? A Mountain Dew will do. :yep:

http://zioxville.homestead.com/files/WWplane.JPG

There goes Wonder Woman. Sitting on her ass in the sky.

[Oberon]

Not that eather help you at Klach D'Kel Brakt! :rock:

They didn't do much to help you at Khitomer either :smug: ;)

[TLAM Strike]

Not that eather help you at Klach D'Kel Brakt! :rock:

They didn't do much to help you at Khitomer either :smug: ;)Yea take pride in your cowardly massacre of civilians. :nope:

Sheesh your worse than the Cardassians. :roll:

One of these days those quantum singularities that power your ships will suck you all in… :P

[Oberon]

One of these days those quantum singularities that power your ships will suck you all in… :P

Not before our Thalaron weapons turn you all into statues :up:

[TLAM Strike]

One of these days those quantum singularities that power your ships will suck you all in… :P

Not before our Thalaron weapons turn you all into statues :up:If its built by the same scientists as your Phased Cloaking device I don’t think we have anything to worry about. :roll:

You science division doesn’t even know how to forward mail from a certain starship stranded in the Delta Quadrant. :lol:

[Oberon]

One of these days those quantum singularities that power your ships will suck you all in… :P

Not before our Thalaron weapons turn you all into statues :up:If its built by the same scientists as your Phased Cloaking device I don’t think we have anything to worry about. :roll:

You science division doesn’t even know how to forward mail from a certain starship stranded in the Delta Quadrant. :lol:

Hey, phase cloaking isn't easy! Even the finest minds in the scientific Federation couldn't make it work that well, serves them right for breaking the Treaty of Algeron anyway! :D

Yes, I'll concede that not forwarding that mail was a bad tactical move, perhaps then the Federation would have gotten their ship back earlier and it wouldn't have interfered with us stealing their Prometheus. :up:

[TLAM Strike]

Hey, phase cloaking isn't easy! Even the finest minds in the scientific Federation couldn't make it work that well, serves them right for breaking the Treaty of Algeron anyway! :D I’ll let you in on a secret, the most shameful curse in the Empire is: “Starfleet Engineer” :D

[mapuc]

Show me a 100% stealth plane and I will buy you a drink. :smug:

How about Wonder Women's Invisible Jet? I saw it on teevee so it must be real. Where's my drink? A Mountain Dew will do. :yep:

http://zioxville.homestead.com/files/WWplane.JPG

The sun was shinning and superman was just flying around, when he spottet Wonderwoman laying all naked on the grass with her legs apart.

Superman toke a decision and faster than the speed of light, he flew down, screwed wonder woman and toke off

-What was that? The Wonder woman said

-I don't know, but my ass hurts like hell, the invisible man responded.

Markus

[Deathblow]

Oh my gosh its turned into a thread full of star trek spam! *shakes fist menacing* Darn you TLAM!
*goes to look for thread self destruct button*

]What I see in the US seems to be the idea that stealth is a panacea. The F-22 may well be the pinacle of fighter design and the stealth characteristics are great in theory in that when all is tucked up inside you can see first and shoot first and get detected later, but for the F-22 to also fulfill a meaningful attack role it will have to carry payload under the wings. They may have developed lower RCS pylons and bomb holders but still a compromise

That was probably the civilian view when the stealth fighter was first revealed with all its mystery. What I've seen in the extended viewpoint is stealth viewed as a way to achieve manpower reductions. Probably along the same line of thinking as the laser guided bomb and the UAV or even the cruise missile. Trying to get the same job with less pilots at risk.... that and helping to increase pilot survival chances. If being in a F22 vs an F15 gives a pilot just that much more of a chance of coming back safely then by all means, stealth away.

Speaking of cruise missiles...... they're probably the *biggest* factor that makes investments in stealth planes superfluous given that cruise missiles have become so effective and can get the job done at less cost and with no pilot risk at all... heck, they fly below radar, they can reach thousands of miles, they do the job and they don't even need a airstrip to land at. Having millions tied up in stealth planes when you could get 100 of cruise missiles for the same cost of 1 plane could be view as makiing stealth obsolete... :hmm:
... perphaps the question should be.... so else has land attack cruise missiles?
British Aerospace did build its own stealth fighter, actually more like the F-22 if you saw pictures of it but a bit smaller and I'd say better looking.

Neat, got any pictures?

[GreyOctober]

Stealth techology effectiveness (as we know it and as it was demonstrated on the F-117, B2 and F-22) has become rather questionable as reports surfaced that eastern made radars somehow are able to detect these aircraft. So in my oppinion, there is NO stealth aircraft at the moment...just hot air and USAF propaganda.

[Wim Libaers]

Stealth techology effectiveness (as we know it and as it was demonstrated on the F-117, B2 and F-22) has become rather questionable as reports surfaced that eastern made radars somehow are able to detect these aircraft. So in my oppinion, there is NO stealth aircraft at the moment...just hot air and USAF propaganda.

It's not the manufacturer, just antenna configuration and wavelength. The current systems are made mostly for the search and fire control radars of standard air defense systems. It has been known for some time that distributed detection systems and longer wavelength radar (as in over the horizon systems) are better against stealth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_bomber

I also see the misconception that the flat panels are needed for good stealth. Not the case, but designing a stealth aircraft with flat panels is easier, because evaluating how and in which direction radar energy will be reflected is simpler. The B2 has a curved surface, and good stealth, but required more sophisticated modeling.

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/electronics/q0168.shtml

[Deathblow]

Stealth techology effectiveness (as we know it and as it was demonstrated on the F-117, B2 and F-22) has become rather questionable as reports surfaced that eastern made radars somehow are able to detect these aircraft. So in my oppinion, there is NO stealth aircraft at the moment...just hot air and USAF propaganda.

Of course it can be tracked. Building a airplane that cannot be detected is like building a submarine that cannot be tracked. It doesn't exist. But there are advantages to reduced radar cross section no doubt.

[GunnersMate]

Anything you do We can do better!

http://www.ditl.org/gptz/GTiaGood2.jpg