HOLLYWOOD DD SENSOR SCRAMBLER BETA NOW UP

[gouldjg]

Hi folks



http://hollywoodchaos.blogspot.com/2006/04/my-current-hollywood-settings.html


A special thanks to Georg Unterberg for inputting some data to allow this beta to get up quicker.


Last point. I made changes to my sim.cfg and should you wish to replicate my settings are below.


[Hydrophone]
Detection time=1 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.03 ;(0..1)
Height factor=0 ;[m]
Waves factor=0.5 ;[>=0]
Speed factor=15 ;[kt]
Noise factor=1.0 ;[>=0]


[Sonar]
Detection time=5 ;[s] 20 default
Sensitivity=0.03 ;(0..1)
Waves factor=0.5 ;[>=0]
Speed factor=20 ;[kt]
Enemy surface factor=0 ;[m2]
Lose time=30 ;[s]


Now I did this in SH3 directory and Sh3commander backup. I strongly recommend that only people whom have no super careers in progress and experience of file changing do this beta.

Please ask if you do not follow.

[VonHelsching]

Another masterpiece by Master gouldig! :rock:

[gouldjg]

Thanks Von, master may be a bit too much praise though lol.

I forgot to credit those whom offered to help and georg unterberg who helped input some data.

As You all know, my time is running short over this next six weeks due to impending exams.

The more people whom can grasp this new concept the better.

This is great for a play with at the moment but wait till we get the chance to set yearly random files :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:

I can see DC power going up through the years

[HEMISENT]

Jason, I need help with something-check your PM.

[JCWolf]

Hi folks

Further added to the chaos file, is this DD sensor scrambler. Imagine it as a million DD mods into one.

http://hollywoodchaos.blogspot.com/2006/04/chaos-dd-beta-v100.html

A special thanks to Georg Unterberg for inputting some data to allow this beta to get up quicker.
I have done the DD section separate from the damage incase people had already started to work on their damage tweaks and did not want to paste over it. This will all get simpler as time goes by.


Please note that this is just a beta and It would be great if players can use timetravelers mini tweaker and look at the changes after each game. This will help fine tune things should they be too distorted or unrealistic.

Guys I do not want to go into realism and game play debates because I sit on the fence neither do I want to start mass discussions about DD ai etc (let SH4 dev team do what there paid to do).

If folks want to try new settings and values, the template is there and I as I am sure others are always interested in peoples work when they have put more thought into it than me (that is not hard to do :88) ).

I just do not have the time to do research and resort to working on hunches as always. Each major mod and player can fine-tune this to suit their style of play and that of their mod users. I can tell you this much though, I played with it last night and had a ball :rock: :rock: :rock: . I will change the template should any major things need to be tweaked so give it a little field test first. This cannot be a scietific beta as the varibles are too big but that is what I wanted. A game that never ceases to make me think. In play testing I have found that I need a much more patient style of gameplay and that I can get boitten if my make assumptions on what the DD limts are. No longer can I just zip in from the side and kill. I am finding that I am best plotting the intercept point and lying in wait. When DD gets a lock, you can listen and get a feel for him. This allows escape route timing. Sometimes you can escape quicker and sometimes not.

What it does not do

1. It does not make the DD suddenly grow brains and play chess with you whilst pinning you underwater for 11 hours :( .

2. It does not stick to absolute historical values as it has to provide for the span of the game until we can do a random file for each year which is currently being planned by Jscones.

3. It does not solve each individual playing preference and style as it is random, but it is a template that can be tweaked, improved and shared by each.

What it does do

DD's will never have the same settings twice (ok there is a chance in a billion :88) ). Sometimes they are weaker and sometimes they are stronger at detecting you. You just will not know until you need to escape.

Should reduce players ability to charge sideways into a convoy at flank speeds without being detected. The hydrophones are random but more powerfull. There will be a need for careful speed selection and silent running. In some cases you will have to set speed to 2 knots manually.

Hemisents thermal layers is included in the template which again add to the immersion.

I strongly reccomending people play with the threat indicator off after they have had the initial look.

Last point. I made changes to my sim.cfg and should you wish to replicate my settings are below.


[Hydrophone]
Detection time=1 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.03 ;(0..1)
Height factor=0 ;[m]
Waves factor=0.5 ;[>=0]
Speed factor=15 ;[kt]
Noise factor=1.0 ;[>=0]


[Sonar]
Detection time=5 ;[s] 20 default
Sensitivity=0.03 ;(0..1)
Waves factor=0.5 ;[>=0]
Speed factor=20 ;[kt]
Enemy surface factor=0 ;[m2]
Lose time=30 ;[s]


Now I did this in SH3 directory and Sh3commander backup. I strongly recommend that only people whom have no super careers in progress and experience of file changing do this beta.

Please ask if you do not follow.


Enjoy

:shifty: Hmm what can I do next??????? or yeah bloody get some studying done.


Hello mate, so it's not ok for me for example , that i'm doing a carreer and on mi 5th patrol???

[CCIP]

Superb!

Installing right away (even if I can't play much right now), since I'm one of those players who could never shut up about the overly-predictable AI.

The fact that I won't know what they're up to is all I really need to be happy with the existing AI - and hope that the logic itself is going to be better in SHIV :yep:

[gouldjg]

It does not do anything to your missions or anything. It is just that I need your sim cfg to look like this at the bottom instead of the GW settings.

There will be some fine tweaking over the next few days but it will just be a case of copy and pasting text from the blog as usual.

Once you look at the file you will soon learn it is not all that complicated to understand. My changes are very basic randomisations but trying to stick to a real feel.

I cannot guarentee super things here as my main plan is just to get as many things on the template format as possible because I am waiting to see how NYGM v2 works before I decide which damage model to work from.

The template however does have a significant immersion effect in game when playing with no external view or threat indicator as it encourages you to think about your opponents in a more tactical/cautious way. I kinda imagine the DD as having captains on them now and my mission is to outwit them.

I could however have a different taste to other players so I expect to see a number of versions flying around and we can all try each others setups and tweeks.

e.g. Some players want early DD to be more of a challenge etc etc.



As feedback comes in, we can further refine it. I like it anyway but I am biased.

Still early days but by all means have a play with it and you will get a idea of how it can add more spice to the game.

I want to see what can be done with planes, any ideas??????



Just make your sonar and hydro look similar to this fo rthe time being




[Hydrophone]
Detection time=1 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.03 ;(0..1)
Height factor=0 ;[m]
Waves factor=0.5 ;[>=0]
Speed factor=15 ;[kt]
Noise factor=1.0 ;[>=0]


[Sonar]
Detection time=5 ;[s] 20 default
Sensitivity=0.03 ;(0..1)
Waves factor=0.5 ;[>=0]
Speed factor=20 ;[kt]
Enemy surface factor=0 ;[m2]
Lose time=30 ;[s]

[gouldjg]

Superb!

Installing right away (even if I can't play much right now), since I'm one of those players who could never shut up about the overly-predictable AI.

The fact that I won't know what they're up to is all I really need to be happy with the existing AI - and hope that the logic itself is going to be better in SHIV :yep:

Thats it CCIP

My settings may not have solved the ai tactics issue but even if you choose your own settings, you can deviate from them to add challenges etc. I am limited in time to playtest for hours on this so I have just gone with a hunch. If I have overdone or underdone something I will tweak it as i or others notice it. The good thing is lack of needing files now.

This is not a (choose my DD model mod). It is merely a basic setup to show how diverse SH3 commander can make the game with random. Later when we can do things year by year is when the real fine work will show its face i.e. automatically upgraded Depth charge strengh etc and like you say, the next Dev team will know what should be done to suit the multitude of player preferences.

All early days yet mate, a new Sh3 life for me though lol

[CCIP]

I got killed on my first patrol with this (but I can't really complain in 1944, against 3 escorts, and because of making a bad miscalculation, can I?)

A dumb question -
What is the base? Is it based on deviations from the default sensors, post-RUb sensors with Jungman's and my tweaks, or something altogether different?

Just curious. It did seem to behave very reasonably for the most part in my tests so far :yep:

[HEMISENT]

Man, I can't wait to wrap up my current project and try some of this stuff you've come up with. The chaos beta that I got from you worked soooo well.

Cheers, and keep up the good work.

[gouldjg]

A dumb question -
What is the base? Is it based on deviations from the default sensors, post-RUb sensors with Jungman's and my tweaks, or something altogether different?

Just curious. It did seem to behave very reasonably for the most part in my tests so far :yep:

I had to go back to a stock game kind of thinking for the sensors.

0.03 sensitivity on all hydrophone and sonars to level things of so at least I might have pinned problems down if they start to occur as I am play testing. (When yearly capability comes this will be further improved)

The only difference then is the deviations and the fact I added a few extra 1000 mtrs on hydrophone ranges which is giving me the results I wanted.

I think I have left jungmans imeter radr fix in the game and never touched the radar settings as set by GW. Whilst I would have like to keep the 15 sonar I just found it too easy to slip the DD

Elevation was randomised so I think you do occasioannly manage to get undetected by sonar as you are under or over the cone howevr the further you move the more chance you have them redetecting you so you still have to study the DD and only move once he has passed over your position or is heading away from you.

The last change was to ensure I got rid of that surface 200mtr in the sim.cfg. It was a hunch so I killed it to 0.

For me, the game is all about sneaking in, getting a kill and managing to sneak away again. Stock hydrophone was just too weak for me. If I stick to the rules, I will suvive however I did notice the DD starting to slighly get nosey after a ship is hit again. I wonder if they actually had to hear it and stock make them too deaf ????????????. Lets not start all that again lol.

I have yet to try in storm conditions and it may be a bit severe as DD were supposed to have trouble in heavy seas.

Now that the sonar arcs are random yet similar to stock except 75 arc was too steep so I set a limit of 65 yet they can be weaker to represent human error etc etc, if they are close, they will pick you up thats for sure.

If I run on silent, ahead slow I can usually get close enough to my attack position. I rush, I get detected and then I am on the sneak and play game.


What I like about it, is thta I have to anylise my hunter to see how fast I can make the break. Also, I like the fact that it is now hard to rid a hunt group. Not immpossible but harder, especially if they have mixed sensors.

I alway play without external view etc unless testing. In testing, they were not uber turning but was good enough if I became complacent.

The key to my settings is silent running when close to convoy. This has a drawback that if I do not position correcty and DD then heads on my path, I either have to abonden attack or go for it and then try and run.

Add the chance of thermal as by Hemisent, it is all very interesting.

Obviously still wip but getting their. It is just that for the next 5 weeks, I am tied up.

[CCIP]

I totally agree about the hydrophone! I liked Destroyer Aggression mod for that reason (much more sensitive hydrophone), but after a while it simply got too predictable - I just knew when I'd get detected and when I wouldn't be, so it didn't quite work. This, on the other hand, may be just the solution we needed! :)

My main worry is always the sonar arcs. If the sensitivity is tweaked, that might be different, but in general I'd recommend sticking to Jungman's 70-degree arcs as opposed to the game's default 90 (because sometimes it becomes impossible to lose the 'lock' even from one DD). Then again, maybe the random performance will do that. Also, I thought that like in destroyer aggression, it might be worth kicking down the "lost contact time" settings a bit.

So far so good :up:

[Reece]

Where is the mod ?? :doh:

[JScones]

Where is the mod ?? :doh:
Click the link in the first post. Then copy and paste the contents into your SH3Cmdr\Cfg\Randomised events.cfg file.

@gouldjg: to lessen the likelyhood of duplication (and hence unexpected results), you may like to remove Hemisent's Thermal Layers and the Lost Contact Time randomisation from your blog (unless, of course, they also form part of your changes). It was OK when you just had the CHAOS Damage settings, but now you have separate DD settings - it may get confusing.

Perhaps just keep your Damage settings and DD settings separate and ask users to copy and paste into their own Randomised events.cfg. Just an idea.

Apart from that. my God you've done a lot of work! Awesome stuff. :rock:

[gouldjg]

I think your right Jscones

I will make the blog easier by tommorow by adding instructions etc. I have included hemisents thermal layer settings so no duplication on my part as of yet.

I was going to merge the thermals into my DD but still testing. Upto now all seems well as far as play testing is concerned.

[Reece]

But it just comes up with "Blogger: 404 - Page not found" :cry:

[gouldjg]

Sry Reece

I will re send the blog page. I am just getting used to it myself.

Try this

http://hollywoodchaos.blogspot.com/2006/04/my-current-hollywood-settings.html

Carefully scroll down and selct the text, then copy and paste into your randomised events file in sh3 commander.

Remember that I changed my sim cfg file manually. later I will do this automatically in the file.

This is a Work in progrss and not a finnished product so if your are not skilled at these files, I suggest you wait for a finnished version to be done.

I post it because I know some users have been around for a while and know the system pretty well.

[Reece]

Thanks gouldjg, this should make patrols a little more interesting and unpredictable! :up: & thanks Jaesen, SH3 Commander, like your mod enabler, is becoming a major part of SH3! :D

[JScones]

Wow, you've added random menu text. Great stuff!

One question though, why do you have so many blocks where all teh entries have teh same values? For example:

[40_data\Library\AI_Sensors.dat]
;allows you to adjusts device values to allow ever changing DD abilities - by Gouldjg
FileType=B
ChooseFrom=20
RndMidPat=1

0_x0685=0.03; Sensitivity AI Sonar
1_x0685=0.03
2_x0685=0.03
3_x0685=0.03
4_x0685=0.03
5_x0685=0.03
6_x0685=0.03
7_x0685=0.03
8_x0685=0.03
9_x0685=0.03
10_x0685=0.03
11_x0685=0.03
12_x0685=0.03
13_x0685=0.03
14_x0685=0.03
15_x0685=0.03
16_x0685=0.03
17_x0685=0.03
18_x0685=0.03
19_x0685=0.03

Are they kinda "placeholders" reserved for future use?

[gouldjg]

1. Inexperience (I am noob at all this :-j )

2. Has potential to be randomised to a more probabilistic way (long term plan). No ill effects though just a bit of time wasting on my part in actually setting up the template.

3. The way I set up allowed me to have random and probability without having to do two sets of data blocks. If i want random, I just make each different and expand if needed. If I want probability i.e. 5% I just edit one line.

As this was all beta I wanted to play with the settings for a while before deciding on a longe term template.

And know it sounds silly but I just rushed the thing up and running. If I thought about it for too long, the idea would have been lost.

I am lost at the moment in deciding whether to wait and see what NYGM v2 or later GW updates has to offer or just building my own complete model.


The text was just a tester but now that yearly can be implemented I can later make these better when I have time.

Again Jscones, I can sort my game out as I go but it will take me a while to get a multiyear platform up and running.

I was hoping one of the big mods took hold of this and used it but they are all busy at the moment working their specific aims. Maybe in the future this will be looked at again.

I lack the history knowledge to claim any super historical mods will come from my side !!!!

[irish1958]

I like the idea of this mod, but I don't have the foggiest idea of how to use it. I know it is a beta, so I probably shouldn't be using it in the first place with my limited knowledge of computers. I hope when it is finished I can just drop a file in SH3CMDR or JSGME and it will be a go.
irish1958

[gouldjg]

Hi Irish1958

Sorry it is not clear at the moment, my time is so consumed at the moment so I have to be as patient as i can.

Yes this mod will be as simple as paste and copy and that is it inmost cases. I may also have a downloadable version as people seem to struggle with the copy and paste here and there method which I agree would confuse the hell out of me also if I had not have done myself.

As long as you can find your sh3 commander program directory then you will have no problems when it is done :up: .

Untill then, it is beta and for experienced players whom know how to undo things should they not like it. All other players will either have to wait a while longer. I am just setting up structures at the moment then I will need historical minded people to get the yearly settings.

I would reccomend just waiting a while longer as I am just playing with capabilites and then I can think about releasing a finnished version. My current settings are really to show it can have a dramatic effect in gameplay. I will need to fine tune all the sections and date then according to the war years.

I was hoping to get it all blog based but this seems to confuse the players :oops:.

Maybe I should stick to having it as a download so you just place the folder in to the location and it is all done. For me to expect people to understand a 10000 parameters text file was a little too much :doh:

Another reason for the delay is that I wanted this to be able to be placed on any mod as its own file but dont know if this would be best route forward.

I have a few choices

1. Spend hours and hours creating a steady version based on stock ship settings i.e. no NYGM but MY version everything based on existing data and not new coded zone files etc. This could be turned up or down depending on realism/game taste.

2. Try and flood the forum with chaos for this mod, chaos for that mod, blah blah blah = double work for me a will alaways have someone on my case.

3. Build a template and just hope the major mods look at it for themselves.
They all seem very busy (no responce, opinion etc)

What do you or others suggest?

[K_Sea6]

I actually like and understand the blog. Just my opinion but why don't you blog it out until you get it all tweaked out and then when it's finished for the people who don't understand the file parameters in the blog all you have to do is transfer it into a downloadable version.
I have been on my own trying to figure out different ship capabilities (ie) with radar hydophone ect, ect, the only thing is I don't know how to put it all together for the different years. My Taste is as realistic as possible.

K.

[Georg_Unterberg]

hi gouldjg,

I think we should make it as easy as possible, as some people are not sure what all these parameters do and if they should edit cfg-files at all.
It might be that some folks are completely overwhelmed if they just look at the length of the text in your blog-page.

So I suggest: Make a downloadable randomised events.cfg with a readme (latest version number, install instructions & effect of this version)

The randomised effects could be summarized like this in readme:
- hydrophone performance of enemy DD's generally increased
- early war sensors of DD's randomised (expect a little better or worse performance than stock sensor)
- late war sensors of DD's randomised (expect a little better or worse performance than stock sensor)
- some textreports randomised for more variety
- crew protection randomised (could be a little more or less resistant to damage)
....

what do you think?

[K_Sea6]

I do Have one question, The figures in Your blog are they in meters /
Miles / Km Im going to venture to say meters but I am not sure.
As I research different numbers for different years for radar, sonar,
hydrophone I get it in different measuerments for the time and I need to make sure I get in in the correct format for the game.

K.

[irish1958]

Gouldjg
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. As I said, for me, it has to be simple to use. And I would suspect this is true for the majority of players. Making it more complex with many options is the best way to go for people who want the most realism and who want to take the time to tweak the files and the computer knowledge to back out of trouble when they screw up.
If you can do both, it would be wonderful.
irish1958

[JScones]

It might be that some folks are completely overwhelmed if they just look at the length of the text in your blog-page.

So I suggest: Make a downloadable randomised events.cfg with a readme (latest version number, install instructions & effect of this version)

The randomised effects could be summarized like this in readme:
- hydrophone performance of enemy DD's generally increased
- early war sensors of DD's randomised (expect a little better or worse performance than stock sensor)
- late war sensors of DD's randomised (expect a little better or worse performance than stock sensor)
- some textreports randomised for more variety
- crew protection randomised (could be a little more or less resistant to damage)
....

what do you think?
*I'm* overwhelmed! I didn't expect the use to be this extensive!

But I agree with you...and I'm sure that's what gouldjg will do after he's finished beta testing.

[JCWolf]

Hi folks



http://hollywoodchaos.blogspot.com/2006/04/my-current-hollywood-settings.html


A special thanks to Georg Unterberg for inputting some data to allow this beta to get up quicker.


Last point. I made changes to my sim.cfg and should you wish to replicate my settings are below.


[Hydrophone]
Detection time=1 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.03 ;(0..1)
Height factor=0 ;[m]
Waves factor=0.5 ;[>=0]
Speed factor=15 ;[kt]
Noise factor=1.0 ;[>=0]


[Sonar]
Detection time=5 ;[s] 20 default
Sensitivity=0.03 ;(0..1)
Waves factor=0.5 ;[>=0]
Speed factor=20 ;[kt]
Enemy surface factor=0 ;[m2]
Lose time=30 ;[s]


Now I did this in SH3 directory and Sh3commander backup. I strongly recommend that only people whom have no super careers in progress and experience of file changing do this beta.

Please ask if you do not follow.


I have the GW version of this, and brother you've done something mi friend... love it ...Remarkable job gouldjg as usual... :up:

Thanks mate... :up: :up:

[mikaelanderlund]

Hi,

Any news? Are you planing any new hollywood/chaos mod? I would like to use it in Commander 2.6.

Mikael

[jean74]

Thank you very much for your PM :D

But I have always the same pb:

under 116 m DDs loose me :damn: !! It's so easy :cry:.

If someone have found the solution....

Regards


Jean

[Shahed]

I don't understand exactly what this does. Can someone put it in point form for me please ?

GREAT WORK ON GW !!!

[Tikigod]

I don't understand exactly what this does. Can someone put it in point form for me please ?

GREAT WORK ON GW !!!
It is the first attempt to mix up the sensor files for the destroyers by randomizing the limits of radars, sonar, and passive listening devices to create a more randomized behavior. So, AI won't behave the same all the time creating better and more realistic gameplay experience.

In this example he is randomizing the amount of arc the AI can use to listen to you. The arc is the imaginary cone that is in front of a destroyer that the ai can see or sense underwater objects. The wider the arc (90 degrees) the easier it is to scan for you....the more narrow the arc (20 degrees) the less amount of ocean he can listen to ahead of him. This configuration he posted above allows you to use the randomization feature of sh3 commander to randomly choose the arc of the AI sensors when you launch sh3 using sh3 commander. The degree of arc that is randomly generated by SH3 Commander is unknown to you.....hence the chaos.

this really doesnt have anything to do with grey wolves other than the data is compatible with greywolves 1.1.....but, hopefully GWX will make sh3 commander modules to randomize data such as this to create a more dynamic environment rather than a fixed one.

GREAT WORK HOLLYWOOD CHAOS AND SH3 COMMANDER!