Target observation??

[Kirk]

In a real sub does anyone know roughly if any how often they may do a visual observation on a target? Every 30min, 15min or every hour? Also when if any does the sub use its towed sonar array? Thanks.

[Henson]

How often we do visual observations depends on how interested we are in the contact.

Generally it's a function of how fast he could become a danger to us in a worst-case scenario. If it would take him 8 minutes to maneuver to a point where he could run us over or force us deep, we'll take an observation at least every 8 minutes.

Generally, once we have a guy who's going 'straight and stupid' we'll just kind of keep an eye on him, and only do an observation if something changes. If they start to get kind of close (I have to be general here) we'll start taking a lot of observations, but be assured that it WILL be more often than every hour or so...a LOT more often. We're almost constantly entering scope observations into the system. Remember that while we're at PD the scope is our PRIMARY sensor, something that is not well emulated in the game.

As for the towed array, we will almost always use it while on mission unless the waterspace prevents it. In the game it is your best sensor, and you should always use it unless bottom depth is too shallow.

[Sub Sailor]

Henson is quite correct. It really depends on orders. In most cases the passive system is used. I think the important thing to remember is anything you stick can be detected or at least there is that chance.
The periscope in fact, well US boats, has an antenna and you can tell a lot by the ESM detector. The US has a really excellent inventory of frequencies from all craft, just as we also have an excellent record of sonar signatures that we don't really need the scope.
In my years on the boats the scope was used for taking pictures and for positive ID, as the equipment got better except for pictures you could avoid using the scope all to gather.
Floating wire, and ELF really limited how much we had to stick anything up. The Towed Array was a god send for Subs. God help the OOD that cut one. I now in DW you can not replace the floating wire, we could, but I never served on the newer boats. We could also replace the TB 16 and the old TB 9.

Hope this helps,

Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)

[Miska]

But if target is pinging active sonar how you can get near enough that you can use scope without getting detected by active sonar?
(n00b? yes i am)

[LuftWolf]

In most cases, warships don't go around with their active sonar on, it really bothers GreenPeace. :know: :lol:

Active sonar is only used when they are specifically looking for something, and in most cases of covert observation by US subs, the baddies have no idea they're there, so they wouldn't light up their active sonar just going about their normal ship-board routines.

[Sub Sailor]

Surface ships only ping when they believe they have a contact. In many scenarios and movies ships are constantly pinging, and they don't do that. That simply advertises where you are, and the sub just maneuvers out of the road. Submariners will tell you pinging can be heard a long way off and the active detector I believe is able to detect pinging 30-40 miles or more away. I hope everyone realizes that subs have a real advantage over ships because of the noise they generate. They can be picked up on passive at really great distance.
That is why aircraft are so good. You don't hear them, no sub is going to use radar, and finding one through your scope is next to impossible. ESM is about the best detector you have. I have read and been told that good sonar operators can hear sonar buoys being dropped, you would have to get sonar people to verify that.
The sub hunters some countries are building that just set there listening and then can rev up and get on you are very effective. They can really ruin your day.

Sub Sailor

[Nexus7]

About the periscope in DW: since it's equipped with an ESM detector does it make me more detectable by electronics? And further... why is it not able to deliver an ID? (in game)

[nattydread]

no, it is a passive detection device. It only detects signals other units are activly sending out.

Bear in mind that the ESM antenna and/or scope can be detected visually or its wake detected visually, or even the scope(and possibly the antenna) by enemy surface search radar. SO make sure you are slow, raise only as high as you need to and then get that puppy back under the waves ASAP.

[MaHuJa]

About the periscope in DW: since it's equipped with an ESM detector does it make me more detectable by electronics?

Assuming you mean radar;

DW: The periscope cannot be detected by radar.

RL: I would say that at least not significantly more than you already is. In short, if the advantages did not outweigh the disadvantages, why would they mount it? Besides, I believe the receiving antenna can be designed so that this is not the case.

And further... why is it not able to deliver an ID? (in game)

The periscope esm is simple - the only information it's supposed to give you is the signal strength. This is because its only purpose is to warn its user that there is a radar in the area, and if the signal is strong you can assume it's near, near enough to perhaps pick it up.

If you want any more information than that, you stop using the "radar detector" and raise the mast with the "radar analyser".

[Oberon]

Sticking anything out of the water in an active emissions environment for longer than one or two minutes is a bad idea and will usually result in a visit from a helo. Using the scope underwater is possible and has been done in RL to photograph the undersides of subs and ships for intel but you need to be real ballsy to get that close to the other side without being detected...but that's what sub skippers usually are, right? :up: