The Future Chaos Mod (ideas wanted)

[gouldjg]

The Chaos Idea

In the near future, I want to add chaos to the game in a orderly type of way (yes I am nuts).

I want random DD sensors/behaviour i.e. + or - 20% sensor boost, 10% etc or something similar

I want random Damage I.e. + or - 20% for HP's and maybe damage potential differences with things like shell and DC etc etc etc

I want random Zones cfg i.e. maybe add ammo in torp room one or twice, and sub/ship damage faster, slower/faster floodings, repairs etc

Random random random thats the future for me

I want to set sail and not know what to expect apart from limited info on what to expect in that time period.

If that means I meet a John Wayne DD commander who ruins my day cos he has uber skills, well so be it, that was life back then.

It is a question of truly needing to stalk your enemy at a safe distance because he may never let go of his lock once he has you in his sights.

He may have that uber hearing sonar but might have the not so good DC droppers.

The next mission may be completely different again in the fact he has not so good hearing but your sub is susceptible to damage.


That’s the idea,

Most of the work has already been done in finding middle ground and we know that the DD has certain in built faults. There were certain things I wanted to add to Hollywood mods, but I could not as if it happened more than the odd time, people would complain of unrealistic game play.

If Jscones can provide the ability and the tutorial on how to do this, I do not think it would take that long to create a new logic within the game.

seriously guys, I think this would be a good idea and could only take a month or so in the making.

CB saw the problems with trying to set a one rule for all in DD behaviour.

That’s why the DD thread died of because we began to understand that no one system could provide a formidable foe without being unrealistic all of the time.

I suggest we now move into a area where we are very occasionally surprised and put on our back feet when approaching convoys etc.

Is this unrealistic or possible, and if possible how do we go about it?

The Methodology comes next after the capability is determined,

I know people can do this right now by editing multiple copies of adjusted game files and then just popping them into SH3 structure before each play. As long as you never knew what exactly you were popping in, who cares?

I just think it would be great if a shuffle files option was available on SH3 commander but it may be too much hard work.

JScones, Others what suggestions can you add to solving this dilemma

[gouldjg]

Wake up gouldjg

I have just read the thermal thread and these guys are on the ball with the ideas.

Why did I not notice that before :damn: :damn: :damn: :damn: :damn: :damn: :damn:

[Tikigod]

Sounds excellent...maybe this should be apart of the NYGM stuff just to keep it standard with his approach....the NYGM always is about randomization of config data...

But, if I wanted to add anythign to this...I would like to see more randomization of the sounds....the environment always is the same....would be neat to mix it up a little...just little changes in the types of sounds below would add to the overall immersion...

Environment
(these change your environment to make it more unique each patrol)
Crew cheers
Fanfare Music when leaving port
Ambience Underwater with different biological sounds each patrol
Ambience Submarine Interior with different outside noises or internal crew noises

Damage Sounds
(these change to give you the "oh sh@#$! what was that" feel)
Ship creaks and groan distortions when you dive deep
Sonar Pings (to simulate different variations from boat to boat)
Depth charges (what was that?)
Glass break (what the @#$! was that?)
Bolts break (whoa that one whizzed past my ear)
Steam burst (oh s@#$ how bad is it?)
Dust Underwater (when you impact ocean floor) could be a grinding crushing sound of a reef or rock one patrol or a muddy soft sound the next...
Ship breakup (the bulkheads you can hear them collapsing!)
Ship fire (random screams...to suit every flavorful language)

You could go on and on with randomization of sounds but, its just a time factor for a program like sh3 commander to swap them before play...since they aren't listed by a config file. it would be more like swapping mods in jsmge....but, it would still be cool to have certain sounds change....like the environment with whale sounds, shrimp, etc each patrol....or the groaning of the ship at different depths....because just the temperature of the waters you are in could affect the sounds this produces when it whines and groans....right now im using jsgme to swap out version its just tedious to do this for all of the variations before each patrol...

what I'm wondering is if you look at seagulls there is a seagull_1 seagull_2 seagull_3, etc if I added another seagull sound would it include it in the randomization? maybe there is something already built internally?

[HEMISENT]

Jason
Sounds like a great idea. Just building multiple copies of Sim.cfg would probably do the trick for starters. Remember that Commander only loads one random scenario at a time. You could have multiple versions of a certain file that achieves different results but each time Commander launches a game you live with that "chosen" file for the length of gameplay or until you save/exit/re-launch Commander. Unfortunately the system does not exist yet to "shuffle" files while in-game altho never say never when it comes to stuff like this.

I personally would love to see an in depth readme for Commander/Random. I think maybe Jscones might be thinking of doing this as we speak. I know that a lot more people would use it if they understood the dynamics of it.

[Rubini]

Hemisent,

Have you checked your PM lately? :hmm:

Rubini.

(sorry for the "of topic" gouldjg ).

[redbrow]

well as per random attacks it works well this way...you make a complex loop area for a ship or fleet, you build in one point that exists this loop zone with say 1% chance, then that hits a waypoint that takes you back to the original loop complex in a 50% chance mode. That means your enemy units have only a 0.5% chance of a exiting the loop to attack. then once this small chance is met, it next goes through several waypoints that sort it out to 3 to 4 attack routes, and add in the random area-zones for the way points. then you use standard chance criss-cross methods for waypoints (aways providing two routes each) and set up scenarios where the ship advances only to retreat or attacks and presses on along one of many routes. If you calculate the likely time for all these possible routes (semi-) well, you can also just do this with RND instead of SCR, and thus have several waves of ships doing this. You use last waypoint-death to rid your series of clutter. Also make sure such things stay away from shorelines. if a DD gets stranded on a shore zone easily a prolific RND file can stack up ships there - slowing game play.

Anyway, i will offer examples of all this in my alternate-universe-war mod that is coming out.

[VonHelsching]

I agree that randomization would enhance the game. Actually it would convert it to a brand new game. Some categories may include:

U-boat damage

One would make some random folders with zones.cfg that would allow at least one torp tube, one engine and one persicope to be stronger than others (spoilers). Others would not. Hell, even u-boat engine faliure could be simulated i.e by having both engines (by a chance of 1%) so slightly armored that would be destroyed instantly by the slightest damage.

Ship damage

Endless possibilities with so many ship types. Most interesting would be DDs though. Some hard to sink, some which engines would be destroed easily, some Trawlers with guns that would be very hard to destroy ets.

Sensors

This is the Holy Grail...Billions of possibilities. Aircraft with uber radar, Deaf DDs, Sensors (visual?) in harbors...

And others, like gun accuracy, DC damage range...

This new concept would require some strategic decisions though:
like ie % of subtle vs radical deviations from the stock game. and create some basic scenaria like:

- Strong uboat, weak DDs
- Weak uboat, strong DDs, weak DCs, weak DD sensors
.
.
.
- Normal Uboat and DDs, strong sensors in harbors

And then assign them percentages. Achieving consensus would be difficult though...Generally speaking, messing with more than two variables at a time is not an easy task...Hemisent has probably noticed that while preparing the sabotage mod.

I hope this leads / contributes to a new concept.

[gouldjg]

I think the easiest and main test would be in the damage departments.

Zones CFG will allow simple multiple set-ups to test for sub & ship damage, it does not have to be too radical but should allow variation that is noticeable.

Ideas,

Random weakening of sub systems via hp. Again does not need to be radical but should at least work close to getting the occasional complete failure for some systems on first DD pass.

However if you should set a figure of + or - 20% in increments of say 3%, 6%, 9% etc on certain subsystems, then set same on shells, DC, Hedgehogs, you know there will be variations between extreme sturdiness and fragile machine.

The one off treats can come in areas such as flooding. The chance of getting a flood that starts to send you to the depths immediately (using imagination) can now be added without game being called unrealistic because you can set this to be a 1 in a 100 chance depending on amount of files etc. You will have to fight to gain back control of sub.

Remember though, you could be lucky and have received the slightly weaker DC or unlucky and received the more powerful one (fate of the day).

Other things can also be tweaked i.e. the special effects for each ship hit.

Example,

You hit a ship, you get same fires, same smoke, same moans and groans.

now you hit a ship,

1. You get huge fire, slow sinking

2. You get small fire, fast sinking

3. You get after explosions but with little effects, you do not get after explosions.

Each change could probably have different sounds attached to them,


So lets say, each big mod damage file is added to the game in random i.e. NYGM with 4 variations, then stock game with 4 variations, then RUB original, 4 variations you get the idea,

How would I know what to expect as a player except to play cautiously.

Again talking about shell damage, Nobody wants uber shells all of the time, likewise nobody wants peashooters all of the time. With the chaos rule, you just could get blown out of the water straight away or maybe last a few rounds and pass credit to you crew for speedy repairs.


Another flaw that can be dealt with is the ramming of U-boat, of hitting the bottom of seabed.

In many occasions this is only met by small damage, now you will just have to be careful as it could kill you flat out.

Planes can be made deadly accurate but not too deadly damage vice versa.


I think it may be some time off for me to start on this but as a general rule, if I were to do this, I would start simple and just set a golden rule.

Increments of 3% up to 20% + or minus on each system, flooding and shell etc.

Then add the occasional file that can cause major damage should you receive a surface shell or whatever great event you want to have a chance of receiving.

As it has already been said, almost everything has been done in a middle ground sort of way but at the end of the day, it is still a set of the same rules.

This completely breaks the rules and forces the player to attempt to play by the book or run on good luck.

I call that true dynamic gameplay.

I feel like the mathematician on Jurassic park with his chaos theory, yet I don’t have a clue about maths.

Why have game devs not thought of this? Imagine a fps with probabilities added to it i.e. luck.

Jscones might have the tool that could be used with other games and mods :sunny:

I hope they consider it in SH4