View Full Version : Anti-Ship Missiles never showing up on Radar?
SUBMAN1
03-12-06, 12:16 PM
Now, I do not know what is going wrong, but the AS-4 Kitchen missiles launched by the TU-22 backfire are no longer showing up on radar ever! They just hit my ownship and I am dead every time. This is in the OHP N. Atlantic Convoy mission.
Now here is the weird part - they used to show up on my radar and I could target them with the SM-2's, and that is the only way to get a fighting chance against them. So what happned? Is my game broken? Why would it work for several missions over (This mission had me stumped for a bit until I figured out you could drop an active DICASS and that would keep the enemy subs off your ships for a while), and then all a sudden not work, or should I say whyare the Kitchem missiles no longer showing up?
-S
PS. Yes, I successfully completed this mission, but upon replay, I'm screwed. I have successfully shot down the kitchens in previous missions, but I can't anymore! I have both air search and surface search radars on.
PPS. They used to show up about 40 nm out too, which doesn't give much time to react, but it is better than no time to react! The only warning they are coming now that I get is a ESM warning.
Well .. they fly just over the sea, they are hard to detect. Didn't you have helo airborne last time ? That can help.
But if it is the same mission I think it is, it is good idea to have radar off. Tu-22 detect you right by your radar. If you stay 'quit', Tu-22 will never fire.
OneShot
03-12-06, 12:28 PM
Weird ... did you make any changes between this and the last time it worked? Added a mod or whatnot?
SUBMAN1
03-12-06, 12:30 PM
Well .. they fly just over the sea, they are hard to detect. Didn't you have helo airborne last time ? That can help.
But if it is the same mission I think it is, it is good idea to have radar off. Tu-22 detect you right by your radar. If you stay 'quit', Tu-22 will never fire.
That is how I had to complete the mission. And no, I didn't have a helo up. I just kept my radar off and monitored the ESM to make sure nothing was taking a peak at me. It was challenging to get those inbound missiles however and that is the part I want to redo!
Shouldn't a surface search radar pick these things up at least at 40nm?
-S
SUBMAN1
03-12-06, 12:33 PM
Weird ... did you make any changes between this and the last time it worked? Added a mod or whatnot?
No mods. Nothing was changed. The only thing I can think of is a lookout picked them up last time. But if a lookout can see an inbound missile, I'd expect a radar to pick them up big time. Imagine the doppler shift of an inbound travelling at Mach 2.5??? It definitely won't be invisible!
-S
TLAM Strike
03-12-06, 01:57 PM
Shouldn't a surface search radar pick these things up at least at 40nm?
-S Surface Search shouldn't pick them up at all. They are a high altitude missile. Air Search, Helo, Visual, and ESM will be the only ways you detect a AS-4.
BigBadVuk
03-13-06, 03:11 AM
Hmm...Well It looks like your Database and Doctrine files r somehow damaged/messed up....maybe reinstall wil help!? :up:
From the beginning I had trouble picking them up before they went boom.
Keeping my radars off had it launch its missiles to enable very early, which helped a lot.
What was the weather like there? Was it raining?
Werewolf13
03-13-06, 09:13 AM
Put your R2D2 (CIWS) on auto. If it behaves anything like it does in real life it will be able to take out at least two of those ASM's as long as they are approaching your ship from the same direction.
The SM-2 loads so slowly in the game that - I at least - can usually only knock down one or two incoming ASM's with it (but I don't play the Perry very well). I wonder about this. I've got limited real life experience with Perry's and I know they use a single launcher but I watched the USS Turner CG-20 (since decommissioned I believe) load and fire a missile off their dual launcher about every 10 seconds once. It's kinda cool to watch that launcher spin around, go vertical and line up with the missile door. The door opens, a missile rises up out of the deck to meet the launcher and then the launcher rapidly points where it is supposed to and another missile is leaving a billowing white trail of acrid smoke as it leaves the rail much more quickly than it happens in the game on the Perry launcher. Happens very fast. At the time (early 80's) the Turner's FC system could have 10 missiles in the air at once (theoretically).
Believe it or not your 76mm gun has a chance at shooting down a missile (maybe not in the game). When I was stationed in Charleston, SC a Perry did this against a practice missile once IRL - they got very lucky (at least that was the official story). On the other hand I watched the USS Pratt get hit by a practice missile back in the late 70's when the Sea Sparrow's (2) they launched against it missed (put a nice hole in the port side of CIC). The practice missile wasn't supposed to hit - they were programmed to turn away at a specific distance. Hmmmm. I wonder if the Navy still uses practice missiles for ships to shoot at.
DW is a pretty fun game (especially online) and I am enjoying it immensely but I continue to find things in it that are - well - annoying, like torpedoes locking on shrimp and detonating amongst them, returning a wire guided torp to pre-enable and still hearing the torp ping (it should stop), link data coming from civilian units (I don't care if they are on the same side), hearing the ping of a torpedo that is 8000 yards away and pointing away from you, getting a TIW message when a Seawolf launches (seawolf uses swim out tubes - torps don't eject with a big ole air slug - there is no transient with a Seawolf), getting a TIW message even when the firing platform is 20K yards away or more and all that is subs, AI units running aground, AI units killing their own side. I haven't even really looked into the Perry or Helo's seriously yet. I wonder how that will go.
The most magic of DW comes from multiplayer .. then AI troubles are gone .. and other bugs are part of the game.
On the other side, multiplayer games takes TONS of time. And time is money, right ?
TLAM Strike
03-13-06, 04:57 PM
DW is a pretty fun game (especially online) and I am enjoying it immensely but I continue to find things in it that are - well - annoying, like torpedoes locking on shrimp and detonating amongst them, returning a wire guided torp to pre-enable and still hearing the torp ping (it should stop), link data coming from civilian units (I don't care if they are on the same side), hearing the ping of a torpedo that is 8000 yards away and pointing away from you, getting a TIW message when a Seawolf launches (seawolf uses swim out tubes - torps don't eject with a big ole air slug - there is no transient with a Seawolf), getting a TIW message even when the firing platform is 20K yards away or more and all that is subs, AI units running aground, AI units killing their own side. I haven't even really looked into the Perry or Helo's seriously yet. I wonder how that will go. Just a few things. First why not link data from a civilian unit? They got a radio. Think of it as an AGI. Second the SW dosn't have the swimout torpedoes anymore, they caused a build up of gas in the tube and were replaced with standard water slug launches.
GunnersMate
03-13-06, 05:40 PM
We still have ShootEx's with drones. Our ship missed with the first missile but clobbered the drone with a skin hit with second one. :up: And btw - MK13 ctcles waaay quicker than in DW ! :88) like 2-3 secs
Kazuaki Shimazaki II
03-13-06, 06:43 PM
USS Turner CG-20
What kind of launcher would that be?
Believe it or not your 76mm gun has a chance at shooting down a missile (maybe not in the game).
I believe it. The Soviet 76.2mm equivalent is also rated capable, at least against Harpoon (they tested it against Swatter ATGMs, since the Soviets didn't exactly have small antiship missiles until Switchblade).
TLAM Strike
03-13-06, 07:20 PM
USS Turner CG-20
What kind of launcher would that be? The Leahy class CGs had two MK 10 twin rail (kinda like the SM-2 rails on the 1st Ticos) RIM-2 Terrier SAM launchers with 80 missiles (40 per launcher).
If you want a pic surf over to navsource.org and look for CG-16 to 24.
Someone should suggest to Jamie that the MK13 and SVTT load times be cut in half or something becasue the FFG is really at a disadvantage... :hmm:
GunnersMate
03-13-06, 11:46 PM
Actually the SVTT reload times are pretty close since they have to be reloaded by hand. The torpes have to be taken out of rack onto carriage wheeled to tube then shoved in. And belive me there aint nothing "lightweight" about them :o
but I continue to find things in it that are - well - annoying, like torpedoes locking on shrimp and detonating amongst them,
just install LWAMI MOD, this is a gameplay feature included by SCS, but removed there.
returning a wire guided torp to pre-enable and still hearing the torp ping (it should stop)
Total new bug, spawning from the 1.03, should be killed in the next patch (and caused because of new improvment concerning torp range vs speed)
Quite annoying bug this one, that's right, but all new and won't live long I'm sure.
hearing the ping of a torpedo that is 8000 yards away and pointing away from you,
Except from 1.03, ping of torp is absolutly NOT bugged.
You will hear, ALWAYS AND ONLY the ping if you are in the cone of the seeker of the weapon, and in no other way.
I suggest you install the LWAMI MOD if you want the best realism settings (specific size for cone seeker size and range for each torps, on the opposite of stock DW with much bigger range and all the same seekers for any torps), because, as it was already said, there is some gameplay sacrifices made by SCS for gameplay purpose.
So, If you want to stop complaining about irrealistic things ... just install LWAMI MOD ... it is made for that ....
getting a TIW message when a Seawolf launches (seawolf uses swim out tubes - torps don't eject with a big ole air slug - there is no transient with a Seawolf)
there is no air bubble at all on modern sub when ejecting a torp. Because the system use compressed air to push not the torp but a sort of steam that will eject the torpedo ...
... but a 4 to 6 meters long piece of metal, half meters large, entering at fast speed (0.2 seconds for the complete ejection on an Amethyste for example) in the water will ALWAYS make a real BIG noise.
Anyway, on the opposite of what you see in DW, the weapon launch never waste air reserves away.The compressed air is used to push a steam and so is not released in the water.
You served on a 688 where it is the same process :roll:
There is TIW on Seawolf launch as there is TIW on every submarine platform launching torps.
About surface launch ... they should certainly be more quiet ... even if not completly stealth.
getting a TIW message even when the firing platform is 20K yards away or more and all that is subs
sometimes you couldn't hear a TIW at 2 miles from you in the other layer, sometimes a CZ could allow you to catch a TIW at more than 20 miles ... (twice the distance you mentionned so)
I don't find this illogical as layer are very strong now in DW.
AI units running aground
If script is well used, this shouldn't happen.
It's the mission designer work to avoid this, using the script pathfinding and avoid collision when necessary.
Suggest you change your mission designer :lol:
AI units killing their own side
Very very rare on IA vs IA, I can't remember the last one (even if playing more than 10 MP games a week)
This happen most usually when a HUMAN just forgot to ID itself (coming on the link) before engaging ennemy, and when beeing to close to a friend => the friend hear launch without any ID of the launcher, so he is scared, and that's completly normal.
Suggest you ID yourself, as you will do IRL, before engaging ennemy, and you won't have anymore this problem.
Most bug you reported are gameplay feature, and you just could avoid them by using the LWAMI MOD.
The only real bug you reported concerning the torpedoes ping, who is bugged at this time and wasn't before 1.03.
I'm pretty confident this problem is going to be solved soon.
Is it confirmed that layer can hide TIW ? I know it could in SC. I know it could not in DW 1.02. I once got TIW when helo dropped torpedo was still in the air. I know about cases where you could not get any clue about distant torpado on sonar, but you got TIW anyway. I guess at least 1.02 TIW modeling was VERY simple.
Is it confirmed that layer can hide TIW ? I know it could in SC. I know it could not in DW 1.02. I once got TIW when helo dropped torpedo was still in the air. I know about cases where you could not get any clue about distant torpado on sonar, but you got TIW anyway. I guess at least 1.02 TIW modeling was VERY simple.
Yes it is, from 1.03 and the new SSPs.
What does it mean : when engaging surface warship, you better fire your torps under the layer with depth above layer.
This way, the warship won't hear the TIW until the torp enable to reach the above layer.
very efficient.
Now, as you could be blind about a contact at 3 miles in the other layer, you also could miss a very close TIW in the other layer.
In the other hand, you could have a VERY distant TIW for a torp launched in the same layer as you.
Especially if both are in the upper layer of a surface duct with good SNR.
TLAM Strike
03-14-06, 01:10 PM
Yea the layer works great now. Just the other day in my Kilo Imp I sneaked right next to an AB DDG and gave him three 53-65s from about a half mile away, I don't think he even had time to evade.
I had an evil grin on my face the whole time…
:rock:
I mean .. I understant that it should be like that .. but did you test all these situation ?
Yea the layer works great now. Just the other day in my Kilo Imp I sneaked right next to an AB DDG and gave him three 53-65s from about a half mile away, I don't think he even had time to evade.
I had an evil grin on my face the whole time…
:rock:
First time it happen to me, I was just climbing to PD : the time I crossed the layer I heard suddenly a very loud new ping just in front on me.
As I didn't had anything on the sonar before moving up, I wasn't aware of anything and couldn't imagine ... a Spruance was 3 miles of me, coming at 15 knts right at my position.
The time I realise this, 4 or 5 SUBROC fall around me, and even torps were launched at me by the Spruance ...
I was dead meat.
So, layers could be your friends ... or can give you big surprises if you are not aware of this !
This also mean you always need to check sometimes what happen on the other layer.
LWAMI + 2 subs on distinct layers mean also you could cross a sub at v e r y close range without any detection.
Quite funny sometimes !!
This affect also, of course, the DICASS active perfomance, ... all sonars in fact ...
Even if at short range, powerfull active sonars could pass trough the layers, and even passive sonar could catch loud contacts on the other layer (depending on the contact noise level)
Werewolf13
03-14-06, 03:15 PM
You served on a 688 where it is the same process
I served on USS Sandlance SSN-660 in the mid to late 70's. Sandlance was a Sturgeon class boat.
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