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View Full Version : LuftWolf and Amizaur's Realism Mod--NEWLY UPDATED TO 3.02!!!


LuftWolf
03-12-06, 02:16 AM
You can find it now, at the CADC: http://www.orionwarrior.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17093 .

Here is the readme:

LuftWolf and Amizaur’s Weapons and Sensors Realism Mod v3.00
For DW 1.03 Build 367
SimHQ Reader’s Choice Poll “Best of 2005” Winner
Readme by LuftWolf

Thank you to Amizaur for his partnership on this project.

Thank you to finiteless, Ludger, and jsteed for their contributions to modding DW. Thank you to Bill “Subguru” Nichols for hosting the work of so many talents modders and mission designers. Thank you to Molon Labe for extensive testing and multiplayer testing.

The purpose of this mod is, straightforwardly, to address the aspects of DW game-play that most bother its authors, while improving the simulation experience and fixing bugs, without introducing any new ones. Thank you in advance for downloading this mod. Please send as much feedback as you can via the dedicated thread on the www.subsim.com mod forum, http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=41581&start=0.

INSTALLATION: Backup your stock Database and Doctrine folders by copying them to a safe place apart from your DW directory. Unzip the file into your Dangerous Waters directory, allowing your unzip program to overwrite all files and install to the relative paths. The Database and Doctrine files will install to the correct directories automatically. NOTE: Saved games created with one Database and Doctrine set are not compatible with any other versions of the database, however, you can restore a previous version of the Database and Doctrine folders at any time to load saved games associated with that database. A separate zip containing helpful charts and graphs for the mod will also be installed to your Manual folder.

XX-Game Play Changes-XX

Sonar Modeling—All active and passive sonar systems in the game, both for the AI and human platforms, have been scaled in terms of their projected real world effectiveness. The Passive and Active noise levels of all platforms in the game have also been completely reworked. Platforms now have Sound vs. Speed curves that are appropriate for their class and quality. Further, all playable platforms have unique Sound vs. Speed curves, giving them unique sound characteristics at each speed, so please see the charts supplied with the mod package to determine how much noise a given platform is making at a given speed (Note: the Chinese Standard Kilos and Indian KLUB capable Standard Kilos have a starting PSL of 58 and then increases noise as other Kilos, to model the 877EKM version sold to those countries). The overall effect of these changes is to reduce the detection ranges against realistically quiet platforms at low speed, and increase the detection ranges against loud contacts (since all passive sonar hard-caps have been removed, you will no longer notice loud contacts suddenly appearing at high signal strength). All in all, the total sonar performance should be closer to what one would expect in all conditions against all kinds of contacts than the stock game.

Torpedo Performance—Substantial improvements have been made to torpedo behavior.

1) Torpedoes no longer explode on countermeasures other than the Nixie Towed Decoy. KNOWN CHEAT: If a player drops two decoys at the exact same time, directly on top of each other, torpedoes will often explode on one of the decoys due to the way the fix has been implemented. If you watch the replay of your match, and you see a torpedo explode on a decoy, however, the decoy remains on the screen, your opponent has dropped two decoys on top of each other and the torpedo detonated on one. I recommend not playing with opponents who use this tactic. ;-) I know of no other circumstances when torpedoes will explode on CM’s using this fix. If you wish to use two decoys at the same time, spreading them out by a second or two will prevent this from happening.

2) The search pattern of snaking torpedoes has been reduce from 90 degrees forward arc to 60 degrees forward arc; AI torpedoes will randomly go left or right for their first sweep on snake or their search pattern for circle; AI torpedoes fired at submerged contacts will no longer strike nearby surface traffic by mistake; and the AI will now also sometimes fire torpedoes under layers at submerged targets.

3) Torpedoes now have seekers of unique quality and ping frequency, as previously all torpedoes were equally capable of detecting and tracking a target because they all shared a single seeker. The practical effect of this is to make high quality heavyweight torpedoes such as the ADCAP or UGST much more effective weapons individually than lightweight torpedoes such as the Mk50 or SUBROC’s or older out of date torpedoes. Please see the accompanying charts for details on the parameters of each playable torpedo seeker.

4) Torpedoes will now reliably begin searching again after losing their track or being spoofed by and burning through a countermeasure.


Passive Signature for Underwater Missile Launch—All sub-launched missiles now produce a very noisy transient when launched. The exception to this is the Harpoon, which is much quieter, simulating its launch from a canister which opens up once it gets to the surface, making it a better option verse the TASM than previously. You will not get any TIW warning when a missile is fired, but it will leave a strong trace on the broadband, especially the Western Waterfall, and will now sound like a Shkval while in the water.

MAD and SAD—The maximum depth at which an AI platform can detect a human sub is now a plausible 750ft (slightly less than reported in RL because the AI can detect contacts at any altitude). The max depth for human MAD is 1000ft and human SAD is 750ft.

Damage Modelling—All values for neutral and supply ships have been adjusted to make them more realistic in terms of the damage they will sustain. Light civilian ships are made more fragile and heavier ships are made realistically difficult to sink. Heavy military supply ships are made slightly more sturdy than the OH Perry Class FFG. Medium supply ships and oil tankers are slightly less rugged than the OHP and medium civilian ships have been made slightly tougher than before. Expect to have to use several medium and light torpedoes or missiles against heavy shipping now, with more necessity to be careful in wasting weapons when facing a convoy. We have also decided to rework the damage modeling for most warships as well, with heavier ships of better build being modeled with appropriate levels of survivability. Expect some ships to be a little more difficult to sink and some ships to be a little easier in a sensible and predictable way. Further, some submarines known for being particularly rugged, such as the Typhoon, have been given higher damage ratings so that they may now sustain single hits from lightweight torpedoes, as we believe to be realistic. Specifically, the Oscar will take multiple hits from LWTs and the Typhoon will take two ADCAPs to sink. NOTE: All playable torpedoes will kill all playable submarines with a single shot if delivered accurately on target when the weapon detonates.

AI Improvements:
1) AEGIS behavior has been fixed. AEGIS ships will now provide effective fleet defense against vampires up to 18-25nm and bogeys over 45nm, depending on the conditions and the target altitude. VLS equipped ships will fire multiple missile volleys at fast moving inbound targets that have escaped the first round of counter fire.

2) All platforms with sonar sensors now have effective sonar that are accurately modeled for their type and quality. Surface ships and submarines equipped with TA’s are capable of using them to see under layers if they are above within distance and traveling slow enough. AI TA’s do not operate in water shallower than 75ft.

3) Submarines are now much more aggressive. AI captains will fire on hostile targets much sooner than previously, and will often wait until a target enters its evasion pattern for the first salvo before firing a follow up shot and clearing the datum.

4) Aircraft and helicopters will actively classify and engage their own or sonobuoy tracks and MANUAL links from humans (allowing utilization of the link and AI for combined arms operations). Helos with dipping sonar will use their dipping sonar when prosecuting a track, with the process sometimes taking up to 10 minutes to complete a dip. Sonobuoy laying and attack behavior on link contacts from other AI platforms still needs work, but it is possible that this is beyond the limits of modding the software. At this time, the AI can be counted on to identify and prosecute manual human link contacts (if you have a datum for an unknown submarine you can link it and friendly ASW assets will attempt to find its exact location and classify it and then prosecute if it turns out to be hostile) as well as attack MAD contacts and sonobuoy contacts. As a side note, aircraft now properly drop submerged MAD and sonar contacts when they lose their track after some time, as before the simulator was having them update the contacts indefinitely, which is not a good thing.

XX-Specific Platform Changes-XX

Seawolf—The Max speed of the Seawolf is now 38kts. The Seawolf is still easily the quietest, fastest, and most heavily armed submarine in the world. ;-)

Player FFG AI MH-60 Helocopter-DIPPING AND MAD CAPABLITY ENABLED-The AI MH60 for the player FFG has been given dipping capability and sensors. To order the MH60 to dip, assign a Fly-To waypoint where you want the helo to conduct a dipping search. When the helo gets to the waypoint, the helicopter will stop and descend to 45ft, at which point its dipping sensors will become active. To stop the dipping procedure, assign another waypoint and the helo will go back up to speed and go back to 300ft. The helo has an active dipping sensor (which of course can be heard on submarine active intercept) set at 45ft of depth. The helo also has passive sensors set at 45ft, 600ft, and 1400ft. All sensors are active at the same time. To compensate for this efficiency, I have reduced the sensitivity of the AI sensors on the MH60. The MH60 also now has and effective MAD that can reliably detect submarines down to 750ft of water depth and 1200m around the helo. The range of this sensor is increased somewhat over what is reported in real life to compensate for the imprecise waypoint control in the ASTAC interface. You can now set the MH60 to perform MAD pattern searches on its own by assigning multiple Fly-To waypoints over a search area. The MH60 will fly to each waypoint with its MAD sensor active. If the helo detects and classifies a hostile submarine on MAD, it will automatically attack it with a torpedo, provided it had not previously acquired the target using its dipping sonar. In terms of employing torpedoes in ASW, I recommend using Torpedo-Drop waypoints (as opposed to firing from the NavMap) while the Helo is under ship control to minimize interference with the autopilot. All three torpedoes, including the Mk54, can now be dropped using waypoints, with the Mk54 being the last torpedo used after the two Mk50’s. In regards to full Helo control while the FFG is under player control, I have not found this to be an effective means of utilizing the helo. Now that you can set the helo to do MAD searches or repeatedly ping an area, I recommend always keeping the helo on Ship control. When the FFG is in a mission under full AI control, the MH60 assigned to the platform will behave like an SH60B, the helo assigned to the FFG 7’s in real life, which has only sonobuoy and MAD capability. Known Issue: The fully AI MH60 when behaving like an SH60B for the AI FFG sometimes displays an odd oscillation when pursuing a contact. This is present using the stock DW doctrines, and I have been unable to eliminate it. It is largely only a cosmetic issue, although it sometimes slows down the MH60(SH60B)’s time on target. To be clear, this issue is only present when the FFG is NOT player controlled.


XX-Specific Weapon Changes-XX

SS-N-27 ASM AND KLUB 3M-54E ASCM—This weapon now properly simulates the reported operation of this weapon in the real world. The first stage is a cruise missile with range 200km/108nm and speed 500kts and a radar seeker. To use the missile, set the enable point as usual. When the missile enables and detects a target, it will fire the second stage of the missile, which is a supersonic ASM with speed 2.5 mach and range 24km/13nm. The first stage will remain in the air and act as a decoy for SAM’s before settling into the ocean.

SS-N-27 ASW—The missile range has been increased to 27nm and the torpedo payload has been changed to a MPT-1UE, which is a LWT with max range 13km at 55kts and max depth 650m.

SLAM-ER—As with the stock database in DW 1.03, this missile now functions properly for anti-land use, PROVIDED THAT YOU RESET THE DEFAULT LOCATIONS OF THE TRANSIT WAYPOINTS BEFORE FIRING THE WEAPON.

SLMM and Mobile Mine—A fix that makes both stop making noise after they have cut out their propulsion has been applied, and are no longer useful as decoys in any sense, at least not against active torpedoes. Both mines will now actively try to find and hold their position, and will be reliably on target. This make them effective weapons within their constraints (300ft for SLMM and 450ft for Mobile mines, the range of their seekers, and the weapon will shutdown below 600ft, as these are shallow water weapons), which they were not in the stock game. Do not try to use them on a steep slope.

Shikval Mad Sensor—The MAD detonator on the Shikval has had its range reduced by half to 250m, as previously any shot within 500m of the target resulted in a kill, this makes it possible to evade one of these weapons if it is off target and proper maneuvering is used quickly. Also, this weapon seems to frequently damage targets as opposed to killing them outright, so be aware of this if you hear one detonate.

53-65 Wake-homing Torpedo Family—The minimum running depth of the torpedo has been set to -14m in order to ensure proper launch depth against surface targets. You can still launch the torpedo from as deeply as before. Also, this weapon can no longer be set to fire at submerged contacts in the fire control.

Mk54 Torpedo-WEAPON ADDED- This weapon replaces the Mk46 for all playable platforms, as well as all American platforms equipped originally with Mk46 torpedoes (the ASROC is still a Mk46). All other non-American platforms retain the Mk46. The Mk54 is a Light Weight ASW torpedo with range 17km at speed 50kts with a max depth of 500m (less on the fire control presets), a seeker equivalent to the Mk50, and a lighter weight for better use in littoral conditions. Note: the load out and fire control screens will still show Mk46, but this weapon is actually the Mk54. The ASTAC screen will show Mk 54 Torpedo II, but this is a normal Mk54. The player FFG AI MH-60’s will fire this weapon now on the third torpedo drop waypoint, with the two Mk50’s being spent first.

65cm Torpedo-WEAPON ADDED-guidance sensor and doctrine changed to simulate 65-76 Wakehoming Hydrogen Peroxide-powered Torpedo (the type supposedly removed after the Kursk Incident). All specifications have been left the same except guidance-following the wakehome doctrine now-and the wire has been removed. The wire-guidance option has been disabled in-game, but we can't change the fire-control graphics, so you'll just have to remember that the A/P and search pattern buttons do nothing, and then the torpedo will continue in a straight line after it enables. Although you can launch the weapon deep, SET THE SEARCH DEPTH AT ~10m, depending on how lucky you feel that day. This weapon is only for ASuW and cannot be targeted at submerged contacts.

53cm Torpedo-WEAPON ADDED-given UGST specifications: Active/Passive Multipurpose Wireguided Torpedo, 50km@50kph, with maximum depth 800m (less on fire-control preset panel) with 300kg warhead. This is now the primary multipurpose torpedo armament for the Akula.

Yu-8 Torpedo-WEAPON ADDED-The SET-53E on the Chinese Kilos has been replaced with a hypothetical pirated version of the Russian USET-80, a multipurpose heavyweight torpedo with max range 16.7km at 45kts with a maximum depth of 475 and an active/passive seeker with quality between a Mk46 and a USET-80 (this weapon has yet not been added to the torpedo parameter guide included with the Mod).

Submarine Should Launched SAM’s—The seeker cones of all submarine launched SAM’s have been limited so that the player must aim the launcher carefully at the target before firing to ensure a lock. Also, the effectiveness of flares has been raised in general. My advice is to drop flares before you think the missile is going to be fired, because the best way to foil a shot is to prevent a lock on you, which the other player can’t do because there are too many flares in his way and his IR scope is all full. :)

SUBROC’s—These weapons will now be reliably on target with a small, intended random error. The AI is now particularly good with SUBROC’s and ASROC’s.

Fast Torpedo Speed Oscillation Fix—Due to a hard-coded error in the DW v1.03 engine, all torpedoes from speeds 56-159 display a wide speed oscillation and or increased speed. We cannot change this directly, however, the speeds of all torpedoes over 55kts have been reduced to 55kts and compensated with more realistic parameters.

Spearfish—Range increased by 10,000m to 32km
Type 89—Increased range by 15,000m to 45km and given it ASuW capability.
APR-2E—range increased from 3.2km to 5km.

Maverick and Hellfire Missile Fixes—The range of the Maverick has been limited to 25km. Also, submarines have now been enabled as legitimate targets for Maverick and Hellfire missiles, meaning you no longer have to reclassify a visual contact before engaging a submarine that has popped up to fire a SAM. Also, these missiles will no longer damage submarines that are completely submerged(a feature of DW 1.03), and will not home on submarines that are under periscope depth, meaning the anti-submarine missile cheat is removed. Also, the Hellfire Strike equipped on the player FFG MH60 can now target surface ships.

FFG SM-2—The Fire Control radars on the FFG have been changed so that it is no longer possible to fire SM-2’s over the horizon at distant targets, there must now be a valid light of sight between the Fire Control Radar and the target. Also, for the weapon to be effective, the FCR’s should only be directed in the weapons control station at targets generated by the air or surface search radars, because both radar systems are needed to effectively guide the missile.

XX-Specific Sensor Changes-XX

Sphere and Hull Arrays—The sensitivity of the Sphere and Hull arrays has been increased relative to the Towed Array (to be clear, the TA is still much more sensitive in terms of long range performance) to better simulate their reported real world specifications. Also, the stern facing baffle of the Sphere has been increased to 120 degrees for active and passive modes, including the FFG and all AI platforms. It is not uncommon for contacts to show up on the broadband sphere before they show up on the narrowband sphere, and loud contacts will also show up more clearly on the sphere array broadband than the towed array broadband once both arrays have detected the contact. Expect to use the Sphere and Hull arrays more now to track and identify surface traffic and build situational awareness utilizing DEMON and TMA, and reserve the TA for finding and tracking those quiet hostile submarines or distant warships on narrowband. NOTE: Known Issue. It will be possible to see and hear contacts on the Sphere array before you can assign a Broadband tracker to them. You can immediately assign a narrowband tracker to all contacts on the sphere with a narrowband signature, although it is intended that generally contacts will be detected on the sphere broadband first. The broadband tracker issue is not intended, although it is present in stock DW as well, and the mod does not make it any worse in game play terms.

Akula II Modified Gepard TA-- The array of the Gepard has been upgraded to hypothetical Pelamida II standards, with a max speed of +4kts over the original Pelamida, and the in game name has been changed to “Pelamida II”. The sensitivity has been left as it is. This array has also been assigned to the Oscar SSGN, to reflect the latest developments in the most funded Russian submarine projects. The practical effect of this is to give the Gepard and Oscar II class an effective tactical speed of 10kts without washout of the Sphere or Towed arrays.

688(i) Towed Arrays—Added the TB-23 as starboard array. The reason we have kept it on the starboard, against what is commonly reported, is because in missions where Ownship starts with TA deployed, it is always the starboard array, and so we figured in most situations you would want that array deployed. The port TB-16 washes out at ~20kts and the TB-23 washes out at around ~16kts. We have set the sensitivity of the TB-23 to be pretty much in the middle of the TB-16 and the TB-29.

Wakehoming Torpedo Sensor—The range of the wakehoming sensor has been reduced, making it necessary to be sure to fire the weapon behind the target so that it makes contact with the targets wake, as in the stock game frontal wakehoming shots are far too effective. Surface targets can now lose the wake homers with sharp maneuvering once being followed by reducing speed to limit the size of their wake. Also, do not use wakehoming torpedoes against submarines as they are not effective in that role.

Sonobuoy Sensor Depths—The depths of all sonobuoys in the Mod have been set to equal those of stock DW 1.03:
DIFAR 90/400ft
DICASS 90/800ft
VLAD-LOFAR 600/1200ft
The sonobuoys will not function in water depth that is shallower than their sensor depth.

Active Intercept—The coverage of all active intercept systems has been increased to 360 degrees, so you will now hear torpedoes approaching from dead astern.

XX-Misc. Platform, Weapon, and Sensor Changes-XX

IR Signatures for Missiles—IR signatures added for all missiles based on type, with a reasonable scaling from Sea-skimming cruise-missiles to supersonic, rocket powered anti-ship missiles. This now makes RAM SAM’s effective against anti-ship missiles.

Cable Length Modifications—The length of user-platform cables have been changed to approximate real-world lengths: SQR-19—5000ft, TB-16—2600ft, TB-23—2950ft, TB-29—3300ft, MH-60 Dipping Sonar—2550ft (same as stock DW 1.03), and Pelamida TA—2300/701m.

Active Decoys—Active decoys now make passive noise detectable on broadband and narrowband sonar, with a distinct sonar profile.

That's it! We hope you enjoy! Please let us know if you find any errors, would like to
contribute to a future release, or have any suggestions or comments. The place is http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=41581&start=0.

Happy Hunting.

LW


Cheers,
David

PeriscopeDepth
03-12-06, 02:43 AM
Thanks LwAmi crew! :yep:

Minor nitpicking:
- Would set AI TAs to function only in water of 150 feet and deeper. 75 feet seems way too shallow, if the AI can utilize their TA and the player can't that's not fair.
- Would make TB-23 slightly less capable than TB-29 rather than in between the TB-16 and TB-29. I
- Would make the Pelamida II slightly more sensitive than the original Pelamida.

Can't wait to try it out when I get back to school.

PD

LuftWolf
03-12-06, 02:51 AM
Would set AI TAs to function only in water of 150 feet and deeper. 75 feet seems way too shallow, if the AI can utilize their TA and the player can't that's not fair.

I should have been more clear there... the TA's function if there is 50ft of clearance under the sub's current depth or 75ft under the ship. So a sub at 90ft in 100ft of water would not be able to use it's TA, neither would a sub at 1300ft in 1345ft of water, although a sub at 60ft would be able to use its TA in 115ft of water, etc.

I think you get the idea. I'll have to edit that in the future. :)

Fandango
03-12-06, 08:18 AM
Luftwolf,

I cannot see in the readme any mention of the repositioning of the TA of the Akula. Is it an oversight on my side or is it that intentional?...

goldorak
03-12-06, 08:37 AM
Luftwolf,

I cannot see in the readme any mention of the repositioning of the TA of the Akula. Is it an oversight on my side or is it that intentional?...

No oversight I'm afraid.
He has decided to not "correct" this issue.
Have a look here : http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=49657

Dr.Sid
03-12-06, 08:53 AM
Well.. ehm .. where can I actually DOWNLOAD the patch ?

Qppralke
03-12-06, 09:03 AM
I've got it from here:

http://www.orionwarrior.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=184&d=1142147588

Dr.Sid
03-12-06, 09:06 AM
I don't have account there .. hell why should I need acount for every page I visit ? :rotfl:

Qppralke
03-12-06, 09:20 AM
I thought the same. . . . Maybe it is a way for "Diving Academy. . . ." to gain members :-j :lol:

OneShot
03-12-06, 09:56 AM
I thought the same. . . . Maybe it is a way for "Diving Academy. . . ." to gain membersNope

I don't have account there .. hell why should I need acount for every page I visit ?You don't, just wait for Bill to host the file over at SubGuru's, should be done in no time.

LuftWolf
03-12-06, 10:10 AM
Luftwolf,

I cannot see in the readme any mention of the repositioning of the TA of the Akula. Is it an oversight on my side or is it that intentional?...

I didn't correct it because I couldn't get the TA to break a single time in testing. :88)

And the opinions of the community are not clear.

I'm going to be playing DW much more now, so I'll give this issue my "personal attention"... if I get to the bottom of it, rest assured that I will issue a fix, but for the time being, I don't have any way of making an informed decision to change it.

OneShot
03-12-06, 10:14 AM
There is now an additional JSGME Version of the Mod in the thread over at the CADC available. Same content as the mod without, setup properly to help using the JSGME Tool.

Enjoy

TLAM Strike
03-12-06, 02:48 PM
Why does the ASuW Seahawk (when playing FFG) now have 2 MK50s, 4 Hellfires, 1 MK54, and 1 AGM-119B? I think we need to change it from the MH-60R to the AH-60R! :doh:

Barleyman
03-12-06, 05:30 PM
Cool. Much appreciated.

You do realize you're promoting Sub sam platform doctrine by making sneaking much less likely to succeed? :-j

At least with SAM you have a fighting chance..

LuftWolf
03-12-06, 07:44 PM
If you go to use the SAM now, you are going to die... the layer and the presence of MAD on the MH60 makes being shallow unattractive.

It is up to the mission designer to make sure the acoustic conditions or mission placement gives everyone a chance to win using the proper tactics.

LuftWolf
03-12-06, 08:28 PM
Why does the ASuW Seahawk (when playing FFG) now have 2 MK50s, 4 Hellfires, 1 MK54, and 1 AGM-119B? I think we need to change it from the MH-60R to the AH-60R! :doh:

Yikes... the ASTAC interface is a piece of work... I didn't change anything directly related to the ASuW loadout, just the parameters of a few things surrounding it, and everything is standard in the database, it must be how the interface is reading it; the MH60 is cross between fully AI (meaning completely modable) and player, meaning I can't change the loadout at all.

Just so you guys know, despite what it says, in ASuW mode the MH60 is taking off with 2 Mk50's, 1 Mk54, and four hellfires, NOT the penguine.

I can easily change it back so that it is carrying 2 MK50's, 1 MK54, and the penguine instead of the Hellfire, but the loadout display itself doesn't get corrected.

I don't know why this happened, but it was a consequence of adding the torpedo waypoint drop capability for the third torpedo and adding anti-surface capability to the Hellfire Strike.

It might take me some time to hunt down the reason this is happening, and I may not be able to fix it while keeping all the other changes due to the limitations of the ASTAC coding. I really hope that SCS figures out a way of handling the loadout on the MH60 much better, and let's us chose what to load specifically in an upcoming patch.

In any case, this one does not have me worried too much, as none of the anti-ship missiles on the MH60 are terribly effective anyway... in fact, I can't recall ever using it for anything other than spotting and ASW. Of course, it should work correctly, but relative to the other bugs that could have come up, I am actually not too worried.

Ok, I'll get to finding the cause of this, but don't expect a fix tomorrow. Thank again TLAM. :up:

TLAM Strike
03-12-06, 08:32 PM
I can easily change it back so that it is carrying 2 MK50's, 1 MK54, and the penguine instead of the Hellfire, but the loadout display itself doesn't get corrected. Yes please! I miss my Penguin. :lol:

LuftWolf
03-12-06, 08:35 PM
I can easily change it back so that it is carrying 2 MK50's, 1 MK54, and the penguine instead of the Hellfire, but the loadout display itself doesn't get corrected. Yes please! I miss my Penguin. :lol:

The only time a penguine has ever done anything for me was in an expansion pack for Gunship 2000 in the arctic (or was it anarctic). In any case, I had to fly my Commanche (remember those?) though a snow storm and magnetic compass interference to find a russian sub that had surfaced under the ice.

I had to snap it with the penguine because i only had one shot before it went under the sea.

Other than that, in all my time in helo sims, the penguine was never more useful than four hellfires.

And that's my story and I'm sticking too it. :up:

TLAM Strike
03-12-06, 08:46 PM
I find its a good missile sponge against lower quanity units like those of the PLAN, and in MP it keeps other FFG drivers worried about IR weapons. ;)

LuftWolf
03-12-06, 08:54 PM
Is that a hint? :hmm: :lol:

LuftWolf
03-12-06, 09:46 PM
Ok, I have gotten to the bottom of this problem.

The way the ASTAC interface determines loadout is based on the mission priorities set for each assigned weapon in the database.

If the weapon has ASuW assigned as one of its mission priorities, and it is assigned to any of the launchers on the helo, then it will show up as listed under ASuW.

So, the fix, on the interface side of things is as simple as changing the mission priorities back to ASW only for the MK54II (which is only on the MH60 so it shouldn't effect anything) and Strike only for the Hellfire Strike (this is again only on the MH60 and I can still enable human fire on ships, so I think this can be corrected without consequence).

So basically, I have fixed it. It's just a matter of when you guys want me to release the fix... I did have some doctrine tuning I wanted to do, perhaps I can release an update in the next couple days.

I'm going to start an "open issues thread" so I can get rid of any of these little ones all at once. :up:

Thanks again TLAM for bringing this up. :rock:

LuftWolf
03-12-06, 09:55 PM
In the meantime, if you guys see any more things pop up, be sure to post here: http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=49752 .

Thanks! :rock: :arrgh!: :up:

OKO
03-12-06, 10:10 PM
Other than that, in all my time in helo sims, the penguine was never more useful than four hellfires.

And that's my story and I'm sticking too it. :up:

in fact, the hellfire missile have only a 8 kg warhead and the penguine a 50 kg one, both with armor percing warhead, but the first one is used for smaller targets.
A single hellfire should make only minor and very localised damages on a FFG, but should greatly damage, even sink, a patrol boat.

LuftWolf
03-12-06, 10:15 PM
Ok, since I am going to be in the mode of fixing the ASTAC helo loadout, let me run this by you.

Ok, there are three slots on the FFG loadout screen: ASW (which loads all weapons with ASW mission priority in the database associated with the MH60R launchers), ASuW (which loads all the weapons associated with the launchers with ASuW capability), and Strike which only loads Strike capable weapons.

The complaint has long been that the Strike version is rather useless... so I added ASuW capablity to the Strike missiles and this caused the error.

Now, I believe I can do it another way that does not cause the loadout problem but still allows humans to target ASuW targets with their AI Helo Hellfire Strikes. SO, now that this can be an effective weapon, and given that I can't add the real strike loadout to the Helo (2 torpedoes and 1 rack of Hellfires like the human MH60), should I add a second rack of Hellfires to the Strike loadout?

So, should the Strike Loadout of the MH60 be 8 Hellfires (with ASuW capability) rather than 4 Hellfires?

And of course the other loadouts would be returned to what they should be ASW: 2 MK50 and 1 MK54 (I could reverse this as well if you want and put 2 mk54 and 1 mk50); 2 Mk50/Mk54 and 1 penguine.

I'm a fan of the Mk54 over the Mk50, but sometimes the Mk54 isn't going to be effective where the Mk50 would be, so I am probably not going to change it, although that would be my personal preference. :)

So I guess the questions are: 1) Do you want more Mk50's or Mk54's?; 2) Do you want 8 Hellfires rather than 4, given that I can't add the torpedos to the other side like I want to?

TLAM Strike
03-12-06, 10:26 PM
Is that a hint? :hmm: :lol: From what I've seen of you in MP I guessed you could use all the help you can get. :D

How much air is left on the K-317? Two days? :P

LuftWolf
03-12-06, 10:29 PM
Is that a hint? :hmm: :lol: From what I've seen of you in MP I guessed you could use all the help you can get. :D

How much air is left on the K-317? Two days? :P

Well, all I need to do is have Molon Labe draw a big circle around me and then put two lines on either side of my location, and you are all set to hunt submarines. ;)

And I've already been rescued... living in a tent until my Akula II Gepard is done. :) :know:

TLAM Strike
03-12-06, 10:38 PM
Is that a hint? :hmm: :lol: From what I've seen of you in MP I guessed you could use all the help you can get. :D

How much air is left on the K-317? Two days? :P

Well, all I need to do is have Molon Labe draw a big circle around me and then put two lines on either side of my location, and you are all set to hunt submarines. ;)

And I've already been rescued... living in a tent until my Akula II Gepard is done. :) :know: Well I hope you new Akula gets farther than 150 miles from port before it gets sunk.

Well I’m glad you got picked up, hate to see you die when Driftwood, Fish and Micksp will need the company in a Tyrian POW camp.

LuftWolf
03-12-06, 10:43 PM
I was just following orders. :yep:

LuftWolf
03-12-06, 10:47 PM
Edit: Nope can't do that. :x :)

TLAM Strike
03-12-06, 10:49 PM
I was just following orders. :yep: Ah that explains a lot. So the moment you got back you gave Furia fantail liberty? :rotfl:

TLAM Strike
03-12-06, 10:53 PM
deleted. ;)

LuftWolf
03-12-06, 10:55 PM
Thanks... I don't want to promise something I know I can't deliver.

So, what do you guys think about doubling the Strike load to 8 Hellfires?

Dr.Sid
03-13-06, 03:10 AM
Still no alternative download location for the new mod ?

LuftWolf
03-13-06, 04:09 AM
Ok, I just posted the LWAMI 3.01 update at the CADC. Here is the 3.01 addition to the readme:

XX-Changes for LWAMI 3.01-XX

FFG ASTAC MH60 Loadout—In LWAMI 3.00, the ASuW loadout was incorrect and this has been fixed. Also, since we are unable to add two torpedoes to the Strike configuration such as for the player MH60, we have added an extra rack of four Hellfire’s, making the Strike Loadout now 8 Hellfire’s. Note: Although they are still called Hellfire Strike, they are capable of attacking ships and surfaced submarines, and will behave exactly like the player-fired Hellfire’s. The same fix that prevents Mavericks from homing on submarine below PD and damaging fully submerged subs has been applied to the Penguin and both Hellfires.

The update will also be posted soon to www.subguru.com .

OneShot
03-13-06, 05:13 PM
The Mod now comes in three flavours

- Pure Mod
- Mod + JSGME tool
- Comfortable Installer including the JSGME Tool and a modified Boot Screen

I'm happy to announce that the LwAmi Mod now comes in an easy to use Install/Uninstall package. Just download the LwAmi_301_Installer.zip, unzip it and run the included Installer. Included is the JSGME Tool and the installer will put everything where it belongs, plus adds a Desktop Icon / Start Menu Entry for easy access of both the JSGME tool and the Uninstaller.

Further, for the first time ever you will now notice a change to the DW Boot Screen. Currently its only text "Luftwolf & Amizaur - Realism Mod - 3.01" however I'm going make a much nicer looking one in the future.

This change was made to ensure easier usability and as a first step on including and properly installing models and eye candy in later releases.

Cheers
OS

GunnersMate
03-13-06, 05:48 PM
This would be my choice for loadouts :
ASW - 2 MK50 1 MK54
ASuW - 4 Hellfires 1 Penguin 1 MK50
Strike - 8 Hellfires 1 Penguin
Make for more thought a launch. :up:

LuftWolf
03-14-06, 01:38 AM
Well, the MH60R doesn't have the available payload of the other MH60s because its full of sensor equipment and such, i think... I think what we've got now is pretty good. :)

Barleyman
03-14-06, 04:38 AM
If you go to use the SAM now, you are going to die... the layer and the presence of MAD on the MH60 makes being shallow unattractive.

It is up to the mission designer to make sure the acoustic conditions or mission placement gives everyone a chance to win using the proper tactics.

I suppose Helix and May do not have MAD, then. In 2nd-to-last scenario of RSR, you have 2 May, 1 Bear and 1 Helix hunting for you in relatively shallow waters (<400ft) with no layer.

Playing it sneaky I died. Going sam-ho they died. This is of course bit exploity since it's not possible to pick up periscope in radar. So I can monitor airdales with impunity..

Fish
03-14-06, 09:20 AM
Is that a hint? :hmm: :lol: From what I've seen of you in MP I guessed you could use all the help you can get. :D

How much air is left on the K-317? Two days? :P

Well, all I need to do is have Molon Labe draw a big circle around me and then put two lines on either side of my location, and you are all set to hunt submarines. ;)

And I've already been rescued... living in a tent until my Akula II Gepard is done. :) :know: Well I hope you new Akula gets farther than 150 miles from port before it gets sunk.

Well I’m glad you got picked up, hate to see you die when Driftwood, Fish and Micksp will need the company in a Tyrian POW camp.

He! Wait I am resqued, all I need is a SeaWolf and a litle space to maneuver.
Not as last time, no change to get away.

TLAM Strike
03-14-06, 10:37 AM
Is that a hint? :hmm: :lol: From what I've seen of you in MP I guessed you could use all the help you can get. :D

How much air is left on the K-317? Two days? :P

Well, all I need to do is have Molon Labe draw a big circle around me and then put two lines on either side of my location, and you are all set to hunt submarines. ;)

And I've already been rescued... living in a tent until my Akula II Gepard is done. :) :know: Well I hope you new Akula gets farther than 150 miles from port before it gets sunk.

Well I’m glad you got picked up, hate to see you die when Driftwood, Fish and Micksp will need the company in a Tyrian POW camp.

He! Wait I am resqued, all I need is a SeaWolf and a litle space to maneuver.
Not as last time, no change to get away. You did a good job of fooling Swimsalot. But me and Piervit were just ariving in our Seahawks when you got sunk so your luck was running out. ;)

Good to know you got picked up too. Its sad to see an entire fleet's officers listed as sunk.

If you go to use the SAM now, you are going to die... the layer and the presence of MAD on the MH60 makes being shallow unattractive.

It is up to the mission designer to make sure the acoustic conditions or mission placement gives everyone a chance to win using the proper tactics.

I suppose Helix and May do not have MAD, then. In 2nd-to-last scenario of RSR, you have 2 May, 1 Bear and 1 Helix hunting for you in relatively shallow waters (<400ft) with no layer.

Playing it sneaky I died. Going sam-ho they died. This is of course bit exploity since it's not possible to pick up periscope in radar. So I can monitor airdales with impunity..

The helix and may do have MAD sensors, but MAD dosn't give data as to a platforms classifcation.

Well, the MH60R doesn't have the available payload of the other MH60s because its full of sensor equipment and such, i think... I think what we've got now is pretty good. :) Also the MH-60R only has 1 full pylon and 1 half pylon since it needs to fit in to a ship's hanger so it has only 1 Penguin/Hellfire hardpoint.

GunnersMate
03-14-06, 12:41 PM
How about fixing the sonar?

TLAM Strike
03-14-06, 12:46 PM
How about fixing the sonar?

:huh: whats wrong with it?

GunnersMate
03-14-06, 12:59 PM
BB shows traces I cant mark see http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=49325&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
I had to uninstall LWAMI because of it :damn:

OKO
03-14-06, 01:14 PM
you do'nt have to reinstall anything at all

this is in fact absolutly normal you couldn't assign a tracker before there is some redondant reliable informations.

The LWAMI modifications allow you to see much brighter the faint contact than you did before.
This doesn't mean you have more informations, this mean there is more contrast on them.

But to assign a tracker on BB screen, you will ALWAYS need (on TA as for SA) more informations on the contact than you will need on the NB.

What does it mean => first, assign trackers on NB, then close the target until you could be able to put a tracker at the same contact on the BB display.

you need more information on NB because NB need only some part of the informations (a frequency), when the BB need a larger spectrum.

Maybe you could say BB is quite too much efficient to catch up new contacts now (with a sooo clean black background and so brightning contacts) but you can't say that's a bug you can't assign a tracker as soon as you see it ... because it is as designed ...

LuftWolf
03-14-06, 04:55 PM
If you go to use the SAM now, you are going to die... the layer and the presence of MAD on the MH60 makes being shallow unattractive.

It is up to the mission designer to make sure the acoustic conditions or mission placement gives everyone a chance to win using the proper tactics.

I suppose Helix and May do not have MAD, then. In 2nd-to-last scenario of RSR, you have 2 May, 1 Bear and 1 Helix hunting for you in relatively shallow waters (<400ft) with no layer.

Playing it sneaky I died. Going sam-ho they died. This is of course bit exploity since it's not possible to pick up periscope in radar. So I can monitor airdales with impunity..

Helix has no MAD, the range of the sam is greater than the range of MAD... if you want to play pong with DW, then go ahead, I can't eliminate all arcade play except eliminating the SAM launcher. :yep:

In multiplayer, the reaction time of humans to fire on visually detected submarines tend to be much lower. ;)

LuftWolf
03-14-06, 04:57 PM
Jeez guys, I detect some hostility. :lol:

Thanks to my people for helping me out here. :know: :rock:

Barleyman
03-14-06, 05:45 PM
Helix has no MAD, the range of the sam is greater than the range of MAD... if you want to play pong with DW, then go ahead, I can't eliminate all arcade play except eliminating the SAM launcher. :yep:

Hey, put the money etc and try the race of the cripples scenario yourself.

LuftWolf
03-14-06, 06:11 PM
Helix has no MAD, the range of the sam is greater than the range of MAD... if you want to play pong with DW, then go ahead, I can't eliminate all arcade play except eliminating the SAM launcher. :yep:

Hey, put the money etc and try the race of the cripples scenario yourself.

I have been waiting to play RSR... keep in mind Bill designed this to work with stock DW, so Race of the Cripples may be hella hard with the mod, or dumb easy.

Game performance is always a combination of the game itself and the mission design. Once the missions start to be designed with a stable version of DW in mind, I think we will see the full potential of the sim come out.

TLAM Strike
03-14-06, 06:18 PM
Helix has no MAD... :huh: :huh: :huh: It should...

Did it fall off like the Kirov's SS-N-14 launcher? :lol:

LuftWolf
03-14-06, 06:28 PM
Well, that's the database for you... it wasn't there and I didn't add it for this version because well... I didn't think to look it up. :oops:

I am going to take the time and review all aircraft and helo sensor assignments for LWAMI 3.02, which will feature new 3-d models as well.

I don't know when this will be out, but expect soon... I want to take a break from "hardcore modding" and do some more fun stuff. Adding 3-d models and new platforms is a straightforward process that doesn't really require testing per se on my end if the models are done... at least that's the theory. :hmm:

In any case, two weeks seems to come to mind in terms of when the new 3-d models might be available... less is a definate possibility.

LuftWolf
03-18-06, 03:19 AM
You can find it now, at the CADC: http://www.orionwarrior.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17093 .

This update will also be availabe at www.subguru.com .

Here is the readme:

LuftWolf and Amizaur’s Weapons and Sensors Realism Mod v3.02
For DW 1.03 Build 367
SimHQ Reader’s Choice Poll “Best of 2005” Winner
Readme by LuftWolf

Thank you to Amizaur for his partnership on this project.

Thank you to finiteless, Ludger, and jsteed for their contributions to modding DW. Thank you to Bill “Subguru” Nichols for hosting the work of so many talents modders and mission designers. Thank you to Molon Labe and TLAM Strike for extensive testing and multiplayer testing.

The purpose of this mod is, straightforwardly, to address the aspects of DW game-play that most bother its authors, while improving the simulation experience and fixing bugs, without introducing any new ones. Thank you in advance for downloading this mod. Please send as much feedback as you can via the dedicated thread on the www.subsim.com mod forum, http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=41581&start=0.

INSTALLATION: Backup your stock Database and Doctrine folders by copying them to a safe place apart from your DW directory. Unzip the file into your Dangerous Waters directory, allowing your unzip program to overwrite all files and install to the relative paths. The Database and Doctrine files will install to the correct directories automatically. NOTE: Saved games created with one Database and Doctrine set are not compatible with any other versions of the database, however, you can restore a previous version of the Database and Doctrine folders at any time to load saved games associated with that database. A separate zip containing helpful charts and graphs for the mod will also be installed to your Manual folder.

XX-Changes for LWAMI 3.02-XX

MH60 Pylons-I have corrected the placement of the torpedo on the starboard pylon for the player MH60. Also, all Hellfire Strikes fired by the AI controlled MH60 will appear to come from the Port Pylon, but this is a minor graphical difference. Note to MISSION DESIGNERS: If you chose to start the FFG Helo in the air at the start of the mission you MUST make it a playable platform as well (although you can tell players not to select it in the briefing for the MH60 if they select it). Also, for some reason, you cannot put the helo in the air with the Strike load out selected and I cannot fix this (it will revert to the ASuW configuration).

XX-Changes for LWAMI 3.01-XX

FFG ASTAC MH60 Loadout—In LWAMI 3.00, the ASuW loadout was incorrect and this has been fixed. Also, since we are unable to add two torpedoes to the Strike configuration such as for the player MH60, we have added an extra rack of four Hellfire’s, making the Strike Loadout now 8 Hellfire’s. Note: Although they are still called Hellfire Strike, they are capable of attacking ships and surfaced submarines, and will behave exactly like the player-fired Hellfire’s. The same fix that prevents Mavericks from homing on submarine below PD and damaging fully submerged subs has been applied to the Penguin and both Hellfires.

XX-Game Play Changes-XX

Sonar Modeling—All active and passive sonar systems in the game, both for the AI and human platforms, have been scaled in terms of their projected real world effectiveness. The Passive and Active noise levels of all platforms in the game have also been completely reworked. Platforms now have Sound vs. Speed curves that are appropriate for their class and quality. Further, all playable platforms have unique Sound vs. Speed curves, giving them unique sound characteristics at each speed, so please see the charts supplied with the mod package to determine how much noise a given platform is making at a given speed (Note: the Chinese Standard Kilos and Indian KLUB capable Standard Kilos have a starting PSL of 58 and then increases noise as other Kilos, to model the 877EKM version sold to those countries). The overall effect of these changes is to reduce the detection ranges against realistically quiet platforms at low speed, and increase the detection ranges against loud contacts (since all passive sonar hard-caps have been removed, you will no longer notice loud contacts suddenly appearing at high signal strength). All in all, the total sonar performance should be closer to what one would expect in all conditions against all kinds of contacts than the stock game.

Torpedo Performance—Substantial improvements have been made to torpedo behavior.

1) Torpedoes no longer explode on countermeasures other than the Nixie Towed Decoy. KNOWN CHEAT: If a player drops two decoys at the exact same time, directly on top of each other, torpedoes will often explode on one of the decoys due to the way the fix has been implemented. If you watch the replay of your match, and you see a torpedo explode on a decoy, however, the decoy remains on the screen, your opponent has dropped two decoys on top of each other and the torpedo detonated on one. I recommend not playing with opponents who use this tactic. ;-) I know of no other circumstances when torpedoes will explode on CM’s using this fix. If you wish to use two decoys at the same time, spreading them out by a second or two will prevent this from happening.

2) The search pattern of snaking torpedoes has been reduce from 90 degrees forward arc to 60 degrees forward arc; AI torpedoes will randomly go left or right for their first sweep on snake or their search pattern for circle; AI torpedoes fired at submerged contacts will no longer strike nearby surface traffic by mistake; and the AI will now also sometimes fire torpedoes under layers at submerged targets.

3) Torpedoes now have seekers of unique quality and ping frequency, as previously all torpedoes were equally capable of detecting and tracking a target because they all shared a single seeker. The practical effect of this is to make high quality heavyweight torpedoes such as the ADCAP or UGST much more effective weapons individually than lightweight torpedoes such as the Mk50 or SUBROC’s or older out of date torpedoes. Please see the accompanying charts for details on the parameters of each playable torpedo seeker.

4) Torpedoes will now reliably begin searching again after losing their track or being spoofed by and burning through a countermeasure.


Passive Signature for Underwater Missile Launch—All sub-launched missiles now produce a very noisy transient when launched. The exception to this is the Harpoon, which is much quieter, simulating its launch from a canister which opens up once it gets to the surface, making it a better option verse the TASM than previously. You will not get any TIW warning when a missile is fired, but it will leave a strong trace on the broadband, especially the Western Waterfall, and will now sound like a Shkval while in the water.

MAD and SAD—The maximum depth at which an AI platform can detect a human sub is now a plausible 750ft (slightly less than reported in RL because the AI can detect contacts at any altitude). The max depth for human MAD is 1000ft and human SAD is 750ft.

Damage Modelling—All values for neutral and supply ships have been adjusted to make them more realistic in terms of the damage they will sustain. Light civilian ships are made more fragile and heavier ships are made realistically difficult to sink. Heavy military supply ships are made slightly more sturdy than the OH Perry Class FFG. Medium supply ships and oil tankers are slightly less rugged than the OHP and medium civilian ships have been made slightly tougher than before. Expect to have to use several medium and light torpedoes or missiles against heavy shipping now, with more necessity to be careful in wasting weapons when facing a convoy. We have also decided to rework the damage modeling for most warships as well, with heavier ships of better build being modeled with appropriate levels of survivability. Expect some ships to be a little more difficult to sink and some ships to be a little easier in a sensible and predictable way. Further, some submarines known for being particularly rugged, such as the Typhoon, have been given higher damage ratings so that they may now sustain single hits from lightweight torpedoes, as we believe to be realistic. Specifically, the Oscar will take multiple hits from LWTs and the Typhoon will take two ADCAPs to sink. NOTE: All playable torpedoes will kill all playable submarines with a single shot if delivered accurately on target when the weapon detonates.

AI Improvements:
1) AEGIS behavior has been fixed. AEGIS ships will now provide effective fleet defense against vampires up to 18-25nm and bogeys over 45nm, depending on the conditions and the target altitude. VLS equipped ships will fire multiple missile volleys at fast moving inbound targets that have escaped the first round of counter fire.

2) All platforms with sonar sensors now have effective sonar that are accurately modeled for their type and quality. Surface ships and submarines equipped with TA’s are capable of using them to see under layers if they are above within distance and traveling slow enough. AI Surface TA’s do not operate in water shallower than 75ft and AI submarine TA’s do not function if there is less than 50ft of clearance under the submarine.

3) Submarines are now much more aggressive. AI captains will fire on hostile targets much sooner than previously, and will often wait until a target enters its evasion pattern for the first salvo before firing a follow up shot and clearing the datum.

4) Aircraft and helicopters will actively classify and engage their own or sonobuoy tracks and MANUAL links from humans (allowing utilization of the link and AI for combined arms operations). Helos with dipping sonar will use their dipping sonar when prosecuting a track, with the process sometimes taking up to 10 minutes to complete a dip. Sonobuoy laying and attack behavior on link contacts from other AI platforms still needs work, but it is possible that this is beyond the limits of modding the software. At this time, the AI can be counted on to identify and prosecute manual human link contacts (if you have a datum for an unknown submarine you can link it and friendly ASW assets will attempt to find its exact location and classify it and then prosecute if it turns out to be hostile) as well as attack MAD contacts and sonobuoy contacts. As a side note, aircraft now properly drop submerged MAD and sonar contacts when they lose their track after some time, as before the simulator was having them update the contacts indefinitely, which is not a good thing.

XX-Specific Platform Changes-XX

Seawolf—The Max speed of the Seawolf is now 38kts. The Seawolf is still easily the quietest, fastest, and most heavily armed submarine in the world. ;-)

Player FFG AI MH-60 Helocopter-DIPPING AND MAD CAPABLITY ENABLED-The AI MH60 for the player FFG has been given dipping capability and sensors. To order the MH60 to dip, assign a Fly-To waypoint where you want the helo to conduct a dipping search. When the helo gets to the waypoint, the helicopter will stop and descend to 45ft, at which point its dipping sensors will become active. To stop the dipping procedure, assign another waypoint and the helo will go back up to speed and go back to 300ft. The helo has an active dipping sensor (which of course can be heard on submarine active intercept) set at 45ft of depth. The helo also has passive sensors set at 45ft, 600ft, and 1400ft. All sensors are active at the same time. To compensate for this efficiency, I have reduced the sensitivity of the AI sensors on the MH60. The MH60 also now has and effective MAD that can reliably detect submarines down to 750ft of water depth and 1200m around the helo. The range of this sensor is increased somewhat over what is reported in real life to compensate for the imprecise waypoint control in the ASTAC interface. You can now set the MH60 to perform MAD pattern searches on its own by assigning multiple Fly-To waypoints over a search area. The MH60 will fly to each waypoint with its MAD sensor active. If the helo detects and classifies a hostile submarine on MAD, it will automatically attack it with a torpedo, provided it had not previously acquired the target using its dipping sonar. In terms of employing torpedoes in ASW, I recommend using Torpedo-Drop waypoints (as opposed to firing from the NavMap) while the Helo is under ship control to minimize interference with the autopilot. All three torpedoes, including the Mk54, can now be dropped using waypoints, with the Mk54 being the last torpedo used after the two Mk50’s. In regards to full Helo control while the FFG is under player control, I have not found this to be an effective means of utilizing the helo. Now that you can set the helo to do MAD searches or repeatedly ping an area, I recommend always keeping the helo on Ship control. When the FFG is in a mission under full AI control, the MH60 assigned to the platform will behave like an SH60B, the helo assigned to the FFG 7’s in real life, which has only sonobuoy and MAD capability. Known Issue: The fully AI MH60 when behaving like an SH60B for the AI FFG sometimes displays an odd oscillation when pursuing a contact. This is present using the stock DW doctrines, and I have been unable to eliminate it. It is largely only a cosmetic issue, although it sometimes slows down the MH60(SH60B)’s time on target. To be clear, this issue is only present when the FFG is NOT player controlled.


XX-Specific Weapon Changes-XX

SS-N-27 ASM AND KLUB 3M-54E ASCM—This weapon now properly simulates the reported operation of this weapon in the real world. The first stage is a cruise missile with range 200km/108nm and speed 500kts and a radar seeker. To use the missile, set the enable point as usual. When the missile enables and detects a target, it will fire the second stage of the missile, which is a supersonic ASM with speed 2.5 mach and range 24km/13nm. The first stage will remain in the air and act as a decoy for SAM’s before settling into the ocean.

SS-N-27 ASW—The missile range has been increased to 27nm and the torpedo payload has been changed to a MPT-1UE, which is a LWT with max range 13km at 55kts and max depth 650m.

SLAM-ER—As with the stock database in DW 1.03, this missile now functions properly for anti-land use, PROVIDED THAT YOU RESET THE DEFAULT LOCATIONS OF THE TRANSIT WAYPOINTS BEFORE FIRING THE WEAPON.

SLMM and Mobile Mine—A fix that makes both stop making noise after they have cut out their propulsion has been applied, and are no longer useful as decoys in any sense, at least not against active torpedoes. Both mines will now actively try to find and hold their position, and will be reliably on target. This make them effective weapons within their constraints (300ft for SLMM and 450ft for Mobile mines, the range of their seekers, and the weapon will shutdown below 600ft, as these are shallow water weapons), which they were not in the stock game. Do not try to use them on a steep slope.

Shikval Mad Sensor—The MAD detonator on the Shikval has had its range reduced by half to 250m, as previously any shot within 500m of the target resulted in a kill, this makes it possible to evade one of these weapons if it is off target and proper maneuvering is used quickly. Also, this weapon seems to frequently damage targets as opposed to killing them outright, so be aware of this if you hear one detonate.

53-65 Wake-homing Torpedo Family—The minimum running depth of the torpedo has been set to -14m in order to ensure proper launch depth against surface targets. You can still launch the torpedo from as deeply as before. Also, this weapon can no longer be set to fire at submerged contacts in the fire control.

Mk54 Torpedo-WEAPON ADDED- This weapon replaces the Mk46 for all playable platforms, as well as all American platforms equipped originally with Mk46 torpedoes (the ASROC is still a Mk46). All other non-American platforms retain the Mk46. The Mk54 is a Light Weight ASW torpedo with range 17km at speed 50kts with a max depth of 500m (less on the fire control presets), a seeker equivalent to the Mk50, and a lighter weight for better use in littoral conditions. Note: the load out and fire control screens will still show Mk46, but this weapon is actually the Mk54. The ASTAC screen will show Mk 54 Torpedo II, but this is a normal Mk54. The player FFG AI MH-60’s will fire this weapon now on the third torpedo drop waypoint, with the two Mk50’s being spent first.

65cm Torpedo-WEAPON ADDED-guidance sensor and doctrine changed to simulate 65-76 Wakehoming Hydrogen Peroxide-powered Torpedo (the type supposedly removed after the Kursk Incident). All specifications have been left the same except guidance-following the wakehome doctrine now-and the wire has been removed. The wire-guidance option has been disabled in-game, but we can't change the fire-control graphics, so you'll just have to remember that the A/P and search pattern buttons do nothing, and then the torpedo will continue in a straight line after it enables. Although you can launch the weapon deep, SET THE SEARCH DEPTH AT ~10m, depending on how lucky you feel that day. This weapon is only for ASuW and cannot be targeted at submerged contacts.

53cm Torpedo-WEAPON ADDED-given UGST specifications: Active/Passive Multipurpose Wireguided Torpedo, 50km@50kph, with maximum depth 800m (less on fire-control preset panel) with 300kg warhead. This is now the primary multipurpose torpedo armament for the Akula.

Yu-8 Torpedo-WEAPON ADDED-The SET-53E on the Chinese Kilos has been replaced with a hypothetical pirated version of the Russian USET-80, a multipurpose heavyweight torpedo with max range 16.7km at 45kts with a maximum depth of 475 and an active/passive seeker with quality between a Mk46 and a USET-80 (this weapon has yet not been added to the torpedo parameter guide included with the Mod).

Submarine Should Launched SAM’s—The seeker cones of all submarine launched SAM’s have been limited so that the player must aim the launcher carefully at the target before firing to ensure a lock. Also, the effectiveness of flares has been raised in general. My advice is to drop flares before you think the missile is going to be fired, because the best way to foil a shot is to prevent a lock on you, which the other player can’t do because there are too many flares in his way and his IR scope is all full. :)

SUBROC’s—These weapons will now be reliably on target with a small, intended random error. The AI is now particularly good with SUBROC’s and ASROC’s.

Fast Torpedo Speed Oscillation Fix—Due to a hard-coded error in the DW v1.03 engine, all torpedoes from speeds 56-159 display a wide speed oscillation and or increased speed. We cannot change this directly, however, the speeds of all torpedoes over 55kts have been reduced to 55kts and compensated with more realistic parameters.

Spearfish—Range increased by 10,000m to 32km
Type 89—Increased range by 15,000m to 45km and given it ASuW capability.
APR-2E—range increased from 3.2km to 5km.

Maverick and Hellfire Missile Fixes—The range of the Maverick has been limited to 25km. Also, submarines have now been enabled as legitimate targets for Maverick and Hellfire missiles, meaning you no longer have to reclassify a visual contact before engaging a submarine that has popped up to fire a SAM. Also, these missiles will no longer damage submarines that are completely submerged(a feature of DW 1.03), and will not home on submarines that are under periscope depth, meaning the anti-submarine missile cheat is removed. Also, the Hellfire Strike equipped on the player FFG MH60 can now target surface ships.

FFG SM-2—The Fire Control radars on the FFG have been changed so that it is no longer possible to fire SM-2’s over the horizon at distant targets, there must now be a valid light of sight between the Fire Control Radar and the target. Also, for the weapon to be effective, the FCR’s should only be directed in the weapons control station at targets generated by the air or surface search radars, because both radar systems are needed to effectively guide the missile.

XX-Specific Sensor Changes-XX

Sphere and Hull Arrays—The sensitivity of the Sphere and Hull arrays has been increased relative to the Towed Array (to be clear, the TA is still much more sensitive in terms of long range performance) to better simulate their reported real world specifications. Also, the stern facing baffle of the Sphere has been increased to 120 degrees for active and passive modes, including the FFG and all AI platforms. It is not uncommon for contacts to show up on the broadband sphere before they show up on the narrowband sphere, and loud contacts will also show up more clearly on the sphere array broadband than the towed array broadband once both arrays have detected the contact. Expect to use the Sphere and Hull arrays more now to track and identify surface traffic and build situational awareness utilizing DEMON and TMA, and reserve the TA for finding and tracking those quiet hostile submarines or distant warships on narrowband. NOTE: Known Issue. It will be possible to see and hear contacts on the Sphere array before you can assign a Broadband tracker to them. You can immediately assign a narrowband tracker to all contacts on the sphere with a narrowband signature, although it is intended that generally contacts will be detected on the sphere broadband first. The broadband tracker issue is not intended, although it is present in stock DW as well, and the mod does not make it any worse in game play terms.

Akula II Modified Gepard TA-- The array of the Gepard has been upgraded to hypothetical Pelamida II standards, with a max speed of +4kts over the original Pelamida, and the in game name has been changed to “Pelamida II”. The sensitivity has been left as it is. This array has also been assigned to the Oscar SSGN, to reflect the latest developments in the most funded Russian submarine projects. The practical effect of this is to give the Gepard and Oscar II class an effective tactical speed of 10kts without washout of the Sphere or Towed arrays.

688(i) Towed Arrays—Added the TB-23 as starboard array. The reason we have kept it on the starboard, against what is commonly reported, is because in missions where Ownship starts with TA deployed, it is always the starboard array, and so we figured in most situations you would want that array deployed. The port TB-16 washes out at ~20kts and the TB-23 washes out at around ~16kts. We have set the sensitivity of the TB-23 to be pretty much in the middle of the TB-16 and the TB-29.

Wakehoming Torpedo Sensor—The range of the wakehoming sensor has been reduced, making it necessary to be sure to fire the weapon behind the target so that it makes contact with the targets wake, as in the stock game frontal wakehoming shots are far too effective. Surface targets can now lose the wake homers with sharp maneuvering once being followed by reducing speed to limit the size of their wake. Also, do not use wakehoming torpedoes against submarines as they are not effective in that role.

Sonobuoy Sensor Depths—The depths of all sonobuoys in the Mod have been set to equal those of stock DW 1.03:
DIFAR 90/400ft
DICASS 90/800ft
VLAD-LOFAR 600/1200ft
The sonobuoys will not function in water depth that is shallower than their sensor depth.

Active Intercept—The coverage of all active intercept systems has been increased to 360 degrees, so you will now hear torpedoes approaching from dead astern.

XX-Misc. Platform, Weapon, and Sensor Changes-XX

IR Signatures for Missiles—IR signatures added for all missiles based on type, with a reasonable scaling from Sea-skimming cruise-missiles to supersonic, rocket powered anti-ship missiles. This now makes RAM SAM’s effective against anti-ship missiles.

Cable Length Modifications—The length of user-platform cables have been changed to approximate real-world lengths: SQR-19—5000ft, TB-16—2600ft, TB-23—2950ft, TB-29—3300ft, MH-60 Dipping Sonar—2550ft (same as stock DW 1.03), and Pelamida TA—2300/701m.

Active Decoys—Active decoys now make passive noise detectable on broadband and narrowband sonar, with a distinct sonar profile.

That's it! We hope you enjoy! Please let us know if you find any errors, would like to
contribute to a future release, or have any suggestions or comments. The place is http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=41581&start=0.

Happy Hunting.

LW


Cheers,
David

TLAM Strike
03-18-06, 11:45 AM
Just to confirm the helos now use their radar constantly due to the new doctrine(s) and there is no way to stop it?

LuftWolf
03-18-06, 12:30 PM
Since day one with DW, there is no way to put aircraft into EMCON. :88)

The doctrines don't effect that... in fact, as best as I can tell, the doctrine level ability to turn on and off individual sensors has been removed and moved into the NavalSimEngine itself, which is unfortunate for modders. :(

LuftWolf
03-18-06, 12:41 PM
Argh!!!

You're right, I changed a damn line in the doctrine I thought I had fragging nothing to do with radar... grr...

I'm going to update the doctrine.

Grr...

Cheers,
David

PS Grr... :damn: :damn: :damn:

LuftWolf
03-18-06, 01:17 PM
Yeah, so now you can't put the MH60 AI helo into EMCON.

I will fix this for 3.03... coming soon. :doh:

Ok, ANY MORE BUGS before I make another version!? :shifty: :x :)

PS I could also just release the doctrine as a separate update. What do you guys want?

Dr.Sid
03-18-06, 01:25 PM
Hello sometimes stays in dipping altitude and crashes quite often.

LuftWolf
03-18-06, 01:27 PM
Hello sometimes stays in dipping altitude and crashes quite often.

I haven't had a single crash, and i've been using this a lot... are you ordering the helo to start moving again every time you dip using a Fly-To waypoint?

If you order the helo out of the dip using a Fly-To waypoint and actually wait until it gains some altitude before issuing further commands, that should not happen... I mean, after over 100 times doing it this way, I haven't see it crash ever.

BTW I am going to release this update as a separate download, since it involves a single file that has to be updated. The LWAMI 3.02 distributions will also be updated, but there will not be a whole new version at this time.

LuftWolf
03-18-06, 02:44 PM
Ok, I've got some interesting news.

First, there is going to be no update at all at this point to the EMCON behavior of the player FFG AI Helo.

The command in the doctrine that controls the initial radar setting has to be left as it is because that is the command to enable ALL of the MH60's sensors (I can't do it individually at this time anyway...). If I don't do that, then NONE of the sensors work at all.

The GOOD news is that although the MH60 defaults to radar on, you can actually turn it off using the REMRO feature at the Weapons Coord. station after setting the helo into RADAR link mode. Now it may sound funny, but actually although the MH60 will still appear to be radiating on your EW, no other platforms (at least no human controlled platforms... I tested it over a LAN) can see the Helo radiating until you enable REMRO again. So, the problem actually only is there when you first launch the helo, you have to be sure to set it back into non-REMRO operation... just like in the good old days of DW 1.0. :-?

Sorry, I can't do anything about this. It has to stay as it is. It's good news that it can be turned off though, even if it does still seem to be broadcasting to you... wierd. Oh well. :|\

Also, I confirmed that the Helo Active dipper can be seen on player Active Intercept screens even with the REMRO function activated (I had suspected that the REMRO option was actually a EMCON feature for the helo but this is not the case... it just controls the radar, so even with the radar off, the dipper will still work in active and passive).

So thank you TLAM for bringing this up, but the fix is on the user-end, set REMRO and have faith that it doesn't have it's radar on despite what your sensors are telling you. That's the best I can say about this. :roll:

I'm going to look at the helicopter crashing issue next... I'm going to try to crash these birds no matter what!!! :stare:

LuftWolf
03-18-06, 03:43 PM
Well, I'm pretty confident that if you don't abuse the Autopilot the MH60 is not going to crash.

That having been said... if the MH60 is in a dipping maneover, and a missile get's shot at it, then the same thing that happens to you when you are in the MH60 and you have the countermeasures autocrew enabled and someone fires a missile at you at 50ft, happens to the AI helo... that is, it crashes. :dead:

So, the MH60 is very vulnerable when it is in it's dipping maneover, just as in real life or for the player MH60. My advice is to be aware of this when choosing where and when to dip, and also under what circumstances you may have to end the dip early and get the helo under way and backup to altitude... it will take about 30 seconds to a minute for the helo to begin to ascend rapidly under normal conditions after it has begun moving towards its new waypoint, so you can plan it out better. :know:

Cheers,
David

OneShot
03-18-06, 08:22 PM
Speaking from own experience with the AI Crew while sitting in the Helo, Lw is right. If the Helo is at 50ft and hovering the evasive maneuvers which the AI makes once a missile launch is detected means certain death and crash. The response of the AI is to dip the nose to gain speed and if necessary turn away from the thread. Especially the first part gets you into the drink faster then you can say "Oh sh*t".

Dr.Sid
03-19-06, 04:54 AM
Last time it happened to me. I ordered hello to hower via fly-to waypoint. It reported sub very closee, behind the helo. I orderer engage command from nav-map. Hello moved a little but stopped again, not changing altitude nor bearing.
I orderer fly-to, helo started to move. While moving, I ordered engage again, hello turned & dropped. Torpedo exploded.
I forgot torpedoes does not explode on CM and I ordered other dip. Helo updatet position of the sub (wreck), and without fly-to I ordered another engage, to be sure. Now torpedo started to move at high speed without changing depdth. It somehow started to turn quite wildly and crash soon after.

Maybe it was bacease of 'engage' command form nav-map, maybe bacause the sub was dead. Don't know.

LuftWolf
03-19-06, 05:37 AM
Yes, the engage command will sometimes override the autopilot, depending on where the target is in relation to the helo.

My advice is to use weapons from the Nav Map only if you have a Fly-To waypoint already headed in the direction of the target, this applies especially to using missiles... think of it as having to line the helo up so the IR seeker is facing the target, since the missile will malfunction if this is not the case when it is fired in many cases. The autopilot will do this sometimes, but not always. And I still say that you should ALWAYS drop torpedoes using a Torpedo Drop waypoint because then you know if the helo overflys the waypoint, that is where the torpedo will fall, and it won't conflict with any other autopilot instructions.

It really is not perfect... Jamie has said on this forum that the ASTAC interface and helo control in general needs some work. What we put on top of that depends a lot on a "best case" user imput at each step of the line (that is, not issueing duplicate commands, being aware of the helo position, etc...). When you combine that with the general tendency of all in-game helo's to crash and users who are unfamiliar with the constraints, then yes, there will be some crashes until people become more comfortable with it.

I promise, if you tell it to do one thing at a time, and don't tell it to do anything but Fly-To immediately after a dip (and nothing tries to shoot it down) it will only crash a mildly frustrating number of times (that is, 1 in x trials where x>0). :-j

Bubblehead Nuke
03-21-06, 09:44 PM
Someone mentioned that the AI helo crashes a lot. I was wondering what was happening when I was playing against the AI OHP because the helo would get close and then just disappear on me.

At first I thought it was just bad tracking on my part till I was reviewing a mission and they just up and vanished on me. They were going in the drink.

I found a way to make it crash, at least for me, when I am playing that sneaking sub guy. I wait till I hear that oh so nice active dipping sonar and get it near detect values and shoot a torp (it will sometimes do it on a noisemaker) and poof, they go for a swim every time. It is like they are reacting to the noise transient and are in too big a hurry to get to you. They are TOO aggressive and are ignoring flight rules it seems.

I JUST reinstalled my entire OS and everything so I KNOW all I have is DW patched to 1.03 and the 3.02 LWAMI installed. Nothing else done to the game. I flip it back to stock and they do not crash with near the frequency.

Bellman
03-22-06, 11:58 AM
Just dived one of my MP missions (sub v sub) SP with LwAmi 3.02 and the AI was so good I thought I'd drifted into MP.

1. The AI subs were aggressive and had excellent avoidance.
2. The torps really bit and were harder work to avoid.
3. The ping rate increased.

As I have been diving 'stock' a lot lately this was a very pleasant surprise. :|\

Thanks to all. :rock: :up:

Dr.Sid
03-22-06, 01:19 PM
Yeah .. even with rookie helo pilots, much better overall experience.

Qppralke
03-22-06, 01:56 PM
Hi guys . Yesterday I played multiplayer (multistation) game with six people. And Seahawk sonar operator had some problems with marking contacts on active sonar. We all had LWAMI 3.0 Official installed.

Could anybody confirm that problem ?
I have experienced the same problem when playing single player mode with FFG before (LWAMI 3.0 official) .

I will do some more testing now in MP with Seahawk.

BTW . Great MOD , especially like the new Broadband :arrgh!:

Qppralke
03-22-06, 03:15 PM
I have done some further testing . . . as co-pilot / dipping sonar operator. Multiplayer. On both : LWAMI 3.0 official version , and DW 1.03 .

On LWAMI :

The autopilot was terrible. Did not respond to commands.
Could not mark any contacts with active dipping sonar.

Patch 1.03 :

Slightly better working autopilot . . .
I managed to mark one contact. (which wasn't the closest one).
Even the contact appeared on the nav map , there was no message from the game, like : . . . . i have a new contact, bla bla bla . . .

Molon Labe
03-22-06, 04:58 PM
Both of those sound like interface issues...

While it is possible that DB changes may have some effect on whether contacts can be marked, I think the mod being responsible is highly unlikely--combine this with the fact that both issues still occur without the mod, and, well.... you're in the wrong thread. :hmm:

Molon Labe
03-22-06, 04:59 PM
Both of those sound like interface issues...

While it is possible that DB changes may have some effect on whether contacts can be marked, I think the mod being responsible is highly unlikely--combine this with the fact that both issues still occur without the mod, and, well.... you're in the wrong thread. :hmm:

LuftWolf
03-24-06, 05:27 PM
@Tusipex-- I suspect Molon is right here... you may have to try to finesse it a bit more, sometimes contacts are harder to mark then they should be, depending on your display and mouse.

Someone mentioned that the AI helo crashes a lot. I was wondering what was happening when I was playing against the AI OHP because the helo would get close and then just disappear on me.

At first I thought it was just bad tracking on my part till I was reviewing a mission and they just up and vanished on me. They were going in the drink.

I found a way to make it crash, at least for me, when I am playing that sneaking sub guy. I wait till I hear that oh so nice active dipping sonar and get it near detect values and shoot a torp (it will sometimes do it on a noisemaker) and poof, they go for a swim every time. It is like they are reacting to the noise transient and are in too big a hurry to get to you. They are TOO aggressive and are ignoring flight rules it seems.

I JUST reinstalled my entire OS and everything so I KNOW all I have is DW patched to 1.03 and the 3.02 LWAMI installed. Nothing else done to the game. I flip it back to stock and they do not crash with near the frequency.

Yeah, it is really hard to keep the helos in the air sometimes. In fact, the AI autopilot for helos is not great at all... I had to change every helo's mass to be over 10 tons, because the light helos like Lynx would crash 100% of the time when dipping.

When the AI autopilot gets confused, it's like he sets the collective to 0% and just lets the helo fall into the ocean like a brick. :shifty: :dead:

I think for future version of the mod, I am going to perhaps raise the dipping height a bit, but first revisit the issue of helo turn radius because this may actually be the root cause of the miscalculations.

In any case, the dipping capability added in LWAMI 3.xx really just exposed a weakness of the game that is there already, which is unfortunate, but helos have always crashed in DW at a high rate.

GunnersMate
03-25-06, 01:38 PM
Are the non-markable sonar traces fixed?

LuftWolf
03-25-06, 01:56 PM
Are the non-markable sonar traces fixed?

NO, and they're not going to be EVER.

At least not by me and the Mod team, that's strictly SCS's department, and that's never going to happen because it is a artifact of a fix of the click-to-mark cheat from SC.

In other words, anyone who plays DW has to live with it... anyone who uses the mod has to deal with it being more noticable, but not worse in terms of how it influences gameplay.

As a community, we went over this months ago, the thread is probably a few pages back if you want to search for it and see the full discussion.

PS It's possible you have a more extreme version of the problem due to your hard/software setup... in which case there is still nothing I can do.

LuftWolf
03-25-06, 02:57 PM
The good news is that I am becoming more and more convinced that the AI helo crashing issue IS in fact a problem that can be resolved using database parameters, that is, in the phsyics engine itself rather than the helo AI autopilot (so who knows, maybe these fixes will even correct the Countermeasure Autocrew crashing problem).

I'm going to do a lot of testing in the next few days, so I'll let you guys know. :know: :up:

Mau
03-25-06, 09:23 PM
So what is that Countermeasure Autocrew crashing problem?

First time I'm hearing that one

OneShot
03-26-06, 12:02 AM
The Helo Countermeasures AC follows always the same pattern when evading, regardless of current speed and/or altitude.

That means : Down nose to gain speed and turn away from the thread while releasing CMs. If you are at 50ft and dipping this will put you in the drink in a heartbeat with no chance of stopping it fast enough.

GunnersMate
03-27-06, 02:45 PM
The Helo Countermeasures AC follows always the same pattern when evading, regardless of current speed and/or altitude.

That means : Down nose to gain speed and turn away from the thread while releasing CMs. If you are at 50ft and dipping this will put you in the drink in a heartbeat with no chance of stopping it fast enough.

But I bet it will spoof the missile! :88) :lost: